Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community (http://duc.avid.com/index.php)
-   Avid S1, S3, Dock and Control (http://duc.avid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=135)
-   -   S3 vs Two S1's (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=406851)

sjgam 10-21-2019 06:10 PM

S3 vs Two S1's
 
Curious why new buyer would opt for S3 over two S1's - my pass at pro's and con's:

Display - S1's have tablet meters and other display functions while S3 has led meters in surface of controller

Modular/Expandable - S1's with magnets are modular and can go larger than 16 tracks

Price - 2 S1's are cheaper but iPad Pro choice gets it closer to total price, no tablet or small tablet - much cheaper

Number of Encoders - S3 has 32 encoders with two independent rows and two S1's only 16

Buttons - S3 has more customizable buttons

Pre's - S3 has two mic pre's

Size - two S1's are 4 inches narrower than S3

Quality - both seem the same and have current modern design in line with Dock.

Southsidemusic 10-21-2019 09:47 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Well I will add that the S3 has a more expensive feel. Quite a lot better feel and with a Dock and iPad it is a Super killer setup. The S1 will replace the aartist series which was the budget line of Avids controllers and the S3 is still a much Higher end unit so thats not a good comparison! ... sorry! The S1 will be around 1000-1200 USD and the S3 is 4-5 times that price for a reason.

The S3 has built-in 4-input, 6-output AVB Core Audio interface to connect your studio, Record vocals and instrument performances through two high-quality XLR mic/line inputs and two TRS line inputs. And connect studio speakers, headphones, and other gear to four line outputs and one stereo headphone output

Now the S1 will be the budget line of the Avid line of controllers and the S3 is still a much more high end unit.

reichman 10-22-2019 06:59 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
All of the above, and:

Pros:
-S3 has meters on every fader.
-With Dock, you don't need screens over the faders, so S3 looks better and fits in front of the computer monitor better.
-not sure yet how S1's will support S3's very useful Multimaster Mode with VCAs.

Cons:
-S1's modifier keys on the bottom are easier to use and more like the S6.
-Sel/Rec switches are located in a better place on S1.

I have no regrets having purchased S3. I wouldn't trade it for a discount and two S1s.

TrackerLe 10-23-2019 08:10 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
As Avid implied, the S1 will replace the S3... This unit fade away... It will be supported, but you cannot buy it anymore...
So why?


The S1 has the same hardware components as the S3.

It has one oled row; the s3 has two, but this is no problem...
The S1 has no audio interface, but the interface of the s3 is obsolete for people using HDX and HD Interfaces.
The s3 has cheap metering next to the faders, but with the S1, you don´t need it. With using the s1 with Ipads or Android tablets, you get the S6 Metering. No need for a second row of Oleds, cause with the Displays, you get everything you need. The S3 is not better in quality... S1 uses alp Faders and the same knobs as the S3...



AND THE MOST IMPORTANT thing is, you can use up to 32 Faders with the modular S1. This will never happen to the S3, cause Eddie Jones said, that there are so massiv problems to integrate the 2 S3s.... It will never happen... S3 is EOL... The S1 will be the replacement...
I love my S3, but i will sell it, cause this unit has no future anymore...
And if i think to have 4 S1s, with 4 Ipad Pros... Wow great setup...
Great Metering and perfect visual feedback... Eddie said, that the s3 will be support till 2022, i think...but when the s1 is released, the s3 will vanish from the market...

sjgam 10-23-2019 09:55 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic (Post 2542153)
Well I will add that the S3 has a more expensive feel. Quite a lot better feel and with a Dock and iPad it is a Super killer setup. The S1 will replace the aartist series which was the budget line of Avids controllers and the S3 is still a much Higher end unit so thats not a good comparison! ... sorry! The S1 will be around 1000-1200 USD and the S3 is 4-5 times that price for a reason.

The S3 has built-in 4-input, 6-output AVB Core Audio interface to connect your studio, Record vocals and instrument performances through two high-quality XLR mic/line inputs and two TRS line inputs. And connect studio speakers, headphones, and other gear to four line outputs and one stereo headphone output

Now the S1 will be the budget line of the Avid line of controllers and the S3 is still a much more high end unit.

The AVID reps at the AES event in New York confirmed the S1's have the same knob, fader, buttons and OLED displays as the S3.

sjgam 10-23-2019 10:07 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackerLe (Post 2542290)
As Avid implied, the S1 will replace the S3... This unit fade away... It will be supported, but you cannot buy it anymore...
So why?


The S1 has the same hardware components as the S3.

It has one oled row; the s3 has two, but this is no problem...
The S1 has no audio interface, but the interface of the s3 is obsolete for people using HDX and HD Interfaces.
The s3 has cheap metering next to the faders, but with the S1, you don´t need it. With using the s1 with Ipads or Android tablets, you get the S6 Metering. No need for a second row of Oleds, cause with the Displays, you get everything you need. The S3 is not better in quality... S1 uses alp Faders and the same knobs as the S3...



AND THE MOST IMPORTANT thing is, you can use up to 32 Faders with the modular S1. This will never happen to the S3, cause Eddie Jones said, that there are so massiv problems to integrate the 2 S3s.... It will never happen... S3 is EOL... The S1 will be the replacement...
I love my S3, but i will sell it, cause this unit has no future anymore...
And if i think to have 4 S1s, with 4 Ipad Pros... Wow great setup...
Great Metering and perfect visual feedback... Eddie said, that the s3 will be support till 2022, i think...but when the s1 is released, the s3 will vanish from the market...

I think you are correct on the quality level - they are the same.

Eddie from Avid on this forum explicitly stated that the S3 is not EOL. Of course market demand in the future will force these decisions on any of the products including S3.

Interesting how you and other actual S3 owners have different takes on to keep or move to S1.

Southsidemusic 10-23-2019 11:50 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgam (Post 2542305)
The AVID reps at the AES event in New York confirmed the S1's have the same knob, fader, buttons and OLED displays as the S3.

S3 still is a whole other animal. S1 is replacing the ARTIST MIX/Control NOT the S3 so why do you keep thinking a 5000 dollar unit would be the same quality as a 1000 dollar unit i.e. S1 ??!! What did you think the reps would say - No don’t buy the S1 cause it’s a low budget product which it is ... period!

sjgam 10-23-2019 12:27 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic (Post 2542315)
S3 still is a whole other animal. S1 is replacing the ARTIST MIX/Control NOT the S3 so why do you keep thinking a 5000 dollar unit would be the same quality as a 1000 dollar unit i.e. S1 ??!! What did you think the reps would say - No don’t buy the S1 cause it’s a low budget product which it is ... period!

As a fact they stated that the knobs, faders, displays have been upgraded in the S1 to the same as those in the dock and s3. Not unusual to upgrade parts while developing new product.

The higher price is also influenced by S3 having double the faders, double the encoders and oled displays, more programmable buttons and the two pres with avb interface and of course whatever they think the market can bear.

I am personally drawn to the s3 (dock and mix owner) as for home project user 16 is the max faders I need and the S1 tablets will interfere with monitor display view and I can get the meter display with the dock and I personally like the meters on the controller. And I really like the two rows of encoders to have immediate access to two plugins or plugins and sends at same time. Also maybe the S1 release may drop the used prices on s3’s.

Jamie Mac 10-24-2019 01:27 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic (Post 2542315)
S3 still is a whole other animal. S1 is replacing the ARTIST MIX/Control NOT the S3 so why do you keep thinking a 5000 dollar unit would be the same quality as a 1000 dollar unit i.e. S1 ??!! What did you think the reps would say - No don’t buy the S1 cause it’s a low budget product which it is ... period!

It are exactly the same components. So it makes for a very enticing choice compared to the S3, which I own but always thought was overpriced for the rather low quality faders and buttons it has. Pricing on the S1 makes more sense.

I am looking into switching over to S1 for a small mixing suite as, by the looks of it, can offer more for my workflow (thanks to the ipad), at a cheaper price and with the exact same components of the S3.

I also know of other studios who currently have d-commands and havenot switched to S6 or S4 because of the increased price and instead are looking at the S1 as replacements. Not the S3.

The fact that the S3 is 5k and the S1 is 1K is irrelevant to its actual quality and use case, and given that the components are equal, the S1 makes sense as a substitute for the S3 in a lot of cases.

sjgam 10-24-2019 07:23 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
I think with S1's introduction with same quality components, one has to think of good use cases for deploying the two sets of encoders. As for the tablet meters feature, none of us have working experience with S1 to conclude the meters and other interactive display features have enough value to deal with accommodating the extra vertical space of tablets sticking out above your controller possibly in front of part of your monitor or just have strong preference for the meters embedded on the S3. I think most buying a 5 k controller already have invested in an audio interface. In a live situation the pre's/AVB interface make a lot more sense with S3L. Have to come to terms with maxing out at 16 faders and on flip side, in a tight/mobile situation have the smaller format S1 to literally physically fit were the S3 might not fit.

That extra row of encoders is attractive to me as I am all about less menu diving while editing parameters. But I don't see a lot of chatter on this forum about exploiting them.

reichman 10-24-2019 07:33 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Just adding a data point: you can get an S3 new for about $3900.

sjgam 10-24-2019 02:05 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by reichman (Post 2542369)
Just adding a data point: you can get an S3 new for about $3900.

Very relevant data point as the two S1's will be $2600 and then depending on what tablet you get could go as high at $2600 for two ipad pro's and put it at $4600 or say $3600 with two $500 tablets. Its in the range of the S3 (But you get two nice tablets to use ...)

(BTW I have not personally seen a new S3 going for $3900)

TrackerLe 10-24-2019 04:04 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
First of all i love my s3 and dock combo... It works...
The biggest con is the limitation to 16 faders +1 of the dock.
The next thing is the position of some buttons, which works for live, but not really for other applications. Remember the S3 was released as live control surface and not for Protools at all. The artist transport was a very good addition to the s3. It had a Numpad, but thats all history, cause it was replaced by the dock, which is a great piece of hardware in combination with the Ipad.

I quote Ediie Jones about the S3
"At present we have no plans to EOL S3 but if sales drop to nothing next year we might be forced to. Dont forget even if we do there will be a further 5 years hardware support and we still release free updates today for the very first Artist Mix 12 years ago, so software wont be an issue."


If i would decide today, i won´t buy a S3, cause the S1 has the same hardware and with the Ipads a better Meter Bridge (S6 like). Would i miss the second row of Oleds... No, cause the visual feedback of the Ipads is better. Pan, Sends and so on... Would i miss the meters next to the fader... Yes... cause they are a good indication, but i think the S6 Meters with S1 are better...



Lets speak of the price point...


Lets buy 2 S1s (1299) and 2 Ipad Pro 12 and a high qualitiy audio interface... You are in the same price region as the s3 or above....


The s3 is still a great compact control surface with integratet AVB Audio interface. Its handy, if you take it on stage or need to travel for recordings. But lets face it... It will never get the possibility to add Ipads or another Tablet to get the S6 style metering. And you will always be limited to 16 Faders....


My future setup for my home studio will be... 4 S1 (32 Faders) 4 Ipad Pros 12 for metering... thats it, cause as a hdx user i dont need an audio interface, cause i have my HD Interfaces...Omni and more...


So yes i think with the new modular approach of the s1, it will replace the s3...

sjgam 10-25-2019 10:07 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackerLe (Post 2542419)
First of all i love my s3 and dock combo... It works...
The biggest con is the limitation to 16 faders +1 of the dock.
The next thing is the position of some buttons, which works for live, but not really for other applications. Remember the S3 was released as live control surface and not for Protools at all. The artist transport was a very good addition to the s3. It had a Numpad, but thats all history, cause it was replaced by the dock, which is a great piece of hardware in combination with the Ipad.

I quote Ediie Jones about the S3
"At present we have no plans to EOL S3 but if sales drop to nothing next year we might be forced to. Dont forget even if we do there will be a further 5 years hardware support and we still release free updates today for the very first Artist Mix 12 years ago, so software wont be an issue."


If i would decide today, i won´t buy a S3, cause the S1 has the same hardware and with the Ipads a better Meter Bridge (S6 like). Would i miss the second row of Oleds... No, cause the visual feedback of the Ipads is better. Pan, Sends and so on... Would i miss the meters next to the fader... Yes... cause they are a good indication, but i think the S6 Meters with S1 are better...



Lets speak of the price point...


Lets buy 2 S1s (1299) and 2 Ipad Pro 12 and a high qualitiy audio interface... You are in the same price region as the s3 or above....


The s3 is still a great compact control surface with integratet AVB Audio interface. Its handy, if you take it on stage or need to travel for recordings. But lets face it... It will never get the possibility to add Ipads or another Tablet to get the S6 style metering. And you will always be limited to 16 Faders....


My future setup for my home studio will be... 4 S1 (32 Faders) 4 Ipad Pros 12 for metering... thats it, cause as a hdx user i dont need an audio interface, cause i have my HD Interfaces...Omni and more...


So yes i think with the new modular approach of the s1, it will replace the s3...

Interesting you have concluded the S1 route and the other S3 owners on this thread as equally passionate about staying with S3. Its all about the meter screen and going over the 16 faders it seems for you. Different strokes for different folks ...

albee1952 10-26-2019 06:35 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
FWIW, I found several android tablets on Amazon with 11.5-12.5" screens and priced under $200;)

Jamie Mac 10-27-2019 04:50 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgam (Post 2542505)
Interesting you have concluded the S1 route and the other S3 owners on this thread as equally passionate about staying with S3. Its all about the meter screen and going over the 16 faders it seems for you. Different strokes for different folks ...

I'm also in the camp of potentially switching to the S1.

So at this point the opinions are 50/50 (if I can count correctly)

TrackerLe 10-27-2019 08:37 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
The best thing,Avid could do, is to release a S2...
A 8 Fader Control Surface with all S1 features and the S3 features combined.
I mean 2 rows of oled displays and encoders and the meter next to the fader.
So you have an 8 Fader S3 with S6 metering through Ipads or Android tablets. This would be so great... 4 S2s means 32 Faders...
I think, an audio interface is not needed, cause everyone has external hardware from Avid,UAD or Antelope or Apogee...


Is there anyone out there, who is using the AVB interface of the S3 as main Audio Hardware?

ramonetl 10-27-2019 12:18 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackerLe (Post 2542419)
My future setup for my home studio will be... 4 S1 (32 Faders) 4 Ipad Pros 12 for metering... thats it, cause as a hdx user i dont need an audio interface, cause i have my HD Interfaces...Omni and more...

I was expecting the S4 to fill the void for this many inputs between the S6 and the S3 but it turns out this was not the case and the S4 is crazy expensive so this setup really makes a lot of sense. I plan to have two eventually. Keep an eye out on Best Buy for refurbished IPad Pros if looking they had them at really good prices and BF is coming soon.

Emcha_audio 10-28-2019 02:21 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by albee1952 (Post 2542631)
FWIW, I found several android tablets on Amazon with 11.5-12.5" screens and priced under $200;)

which 12.5? I've been looking for some since the s1 was announced.

I think for myself, I'm probably going to get a 3 s1's with android tablets, and the dock with the ipad pro 12.9 I already have. Then I'll get a raven so I can use it to quick input plugins sends and I/O and do editing on the edit window. If both system can work together, that would be a really good combo and that would be really close to the system I pitched Avid earlier this year. Well I just found some people are actually using the Raven MTI2 with Artist mix, so the s1 and MTI2 should work, yay!

albee1952 10-28-2019 09:08 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio (Post 2542714)
which 12.5? I've been looking for some since the s1 was announced.

I think for myself, I'm probably going to get a 3 s1's with android tablets, and the dock with the ipad pro 12.9 I already have. Then I'll get a raven so I can use it to quick input plugins sends and I/O and do editing on the edit window. If both system can work together, that would be a really good combo and that would be really close to the system I pitched Avid earlier this year. Well I just found some people are actually using the Raven MTI2 with Artist mix, so the s1 and MTI2 should work, yay!

Go to amazon.com and search for 12.5 android tablet and it will show you several models ranging from 10" and up:D

clivvy 10-28-2019 10:52 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
what's old is new again want proper faders a used d command is the way to go if it fits your work flow pro feel all the way i brought a used one never looked back!

Emcha_audio 10-28-2019 09:58 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by albee1952 (Post 2542737)
Go to amazon.com and search for 12.5 android tablet and it will show you several models ranging from 10" and up:D

yeah that's what I've been doing for the past two weeks, only unknown names one came up with very poor reviews lol.

Maybe there's more on amazon.com than .ca which is the one for canadians. but then again might not be able to get it shipped here.

KeyplayerG 11-09-2019 11:58 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
ALL it would take to keep the S3 viable in the new line up of products would be to make it LINKABLE/MODULAR, like the D Command, Artist Series, S1 or S6! If they lifted that totally imposed 16 fader limit, they'd have sold thousands of more units just to the people who wanted more faders to begin with.

albee1952 11-09-2019 01:53 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio (Post 2542821)
yeah that's what I've been doing for the past two weeks, only unknown names one came up with very poor reviews lol.

Maybe there's more on amazon.com than .ca which is the one for canadians. but then again might not be able to get it shipped here.

The only thing to keep in mind is; the reviews are probably from people that use tablets for stuff that doesn't matter to us and those comments might be mostly unimportant(reliability would matter, but not much else). Food for thought:o

Emcha_audio 11-10-2019 12:58 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by albee1952 (Post 2544081)
The only thing to keep in mind is; the reviews are probably from people that use tablets for stuff that doesn't matter to us and those comments might be mostly unimportant(reliability would matter, but not much else). Food for thought:o

True which is why I'm going to stay away from the PRo12 tablets, a lot of people are reporting them suddenly stopping working after 3 months lol

EddieJones 11-10-2019 09:23 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's a pic with $220 Samsung Galaxy Tab A 10.5.

EddieJones 11-10-2019 09:25 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeyplayerG (Post 2544071)
ALL it would take to keep the S3 viable in the new line up of products would be to make it LINKABLE/MODULAR, like the D Command, Artist Series, S1 or S6! If they lifted that totally imposed 16 fader limit, they'd have sold thousands of more units just to the people who wanted more faders to begin with.

Yes its a switch...but when we turned it on to see how it worked a lot of stuff was broken, from banking, VCA spill, softkeys, it would have taken months to sort out and distract from everything else we are doing. Yes we would sell more S3 so it wasn't a decision I took lightly.

KeyplayerG 11-10-2019 06:50 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieJones (Post 2544130)
Yes its a switch...but when we turned it on to see how it worked a lot of stuff was broken, from banking, VCA spill, softkeys, it would have taken months to sort out and distract from everything else we are doing. Yes we would sell more S3 so it wasn't a decision I took lightly.

What is so different about the S3 compared to the S1 or Artist Series units? :confused: Why didn't they have the same problems?

EddieJones 11-10-2019 07:06 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeyplayerG (Post 2544167)
What is so different about the S3 compared to the S1 or Artist Series units? :confused: Why didn't they have the same problems?

The S3 was built for live first so has some differences, the other surfaces don't have the VCA spill stuff S3 has, or the top row of knobs. I wouldn't throw away revenue if it was easy believe me.

KeyplayerG 11-11-2019 07:03 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieJones (Post 2544130)
Yes its a switch...but when we turned it on to see how it worked a lot of stuff was broken, from banking, VCA spill, softkeys, it would have taken months to sort out and distract from everything else we are doing. Yes we would sell more S3 so it wasn't a decision I took lightly.

So, S1s are "CORRECTED" S3s? :confused:

KeyplayerG 11-11-2019 11:42 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
How well will the S1's work with Cubase/Nuendo? Do we still have the same limitations from the Artist Series (Hardware won't follow on screen vies of the DAW, Tracks page on PT Control - Now Avid Control- will cause Nuendo to crash, etc.)? Also, is there any chance you'll offer an S1 level Joystick Module? :confused:

EddieJones 11-13-2019 09:43 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeyplayerG (Post 2544220)
How well will the S1's work with Cubase/Nuendo? Do we still have the same limitations from the Artist Series (Hardware won't follow on screen vies of the DAW, Tracks page on PT Control - Now Avid Control- will cause Nuendo to crash, etc.)? Also, is there any chance you'll offer an S1 level Joystick Module? :confused:

We are sending an S1 to Steinberg and Apple with a list of things we want fixed/updated. We tried to replicate the crash on the tracks page with the new App but couldn't so hopefully gone away with all the new code..and you will have to wait and see about the last request...

robertg 11-23-2019 12:35 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieJones (Post 2544472)
We are sending an S1 to Steinberg and Apple with a list of things we want fixed/updated. We tried to replicate the crash on the tracks page with the new App but couldn't so hopefully gone away with all the new code..and you will have to wait and see about the last request...

I really hope that "plugins show as blank until you reset the session" is on your list :)

EddieJones 11-23-2019 08:47 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robertg (Post 2545318)
I really hope that "plugins show as blank until you reset the session" is on your list :)

Top of it

mattrixx 11-23-2019 07:41 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieJones (Post 2545345)
Top of it

That's great to hear Eddie! Fantastic

audiobob 12-09-2019 05:27 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by reichman (Post 2542175)
I have no regrets having purchased S3. I wouldn't trade it for a discount and two S1s.

What furniture are you using with your S3?

reichman 12-09-2019 05:34 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by audiobob (Post 2547206)
What furniture are you using with your S3?

None. Everything is sitting on my mix table. Three screens: Edit – Video – Mix. And then in front of that I have S3 on the left, and Dock on the right, angled slightly for easier reach. And in front of that, trackpad, computer keyboard, Wacom tablet.

The other day I was working in a studio with S6, and the furniture was way too deep, so you could barely reach the knobs on the MTM while seated. I was quite literally wishing I was in my studio where the Dock knobs are in reach. Keep in mind that this is the fault of the furniture, not the S6!

Dror520 12-09-2019 11:45 PM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
If you have two S1 units, will they bank 16 faders at a time or 8 like on the Artist mix?

sjgam 12-10-2019 07:54 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dror520 (Post 2547222)
If you have two S1 units, will they bank 16 faders at a time or 8 like on the Artist mix?

I guess Eddie will have to confirm - I noticed in the Using EuControl Surfaces guide under "Banking Using S1 or S3" on page 21 it says:

"If multiple S1s (or Artist Mix) are present, banking any unit banks all units."

So apparently both Mix and S1 units should all bank.

http://resources.avid.com/SupportFil...ces_v19.12.pdf

EddieJones 12-10-2019 11:17 AM

Re: S3 vs Two S1's
 
Nudge by 1, Bank by 8 for both S1 and Mix


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:10 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com