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-   -   Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"? (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=378821)

Ray JB 03-14-2016 12:53 PM

Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
2 Attachment(s)
I've got a project on with AAF's supplied by AVID Media Composer with MXF files.

All is great, my editorial team have supplied me with all the goods, so no worries there.

There is a great deal of multichannel material for multiple character radio mics, plants and booms. What I'm finding is that I have the AVID filename as the clip name on the tracks. The channel name metadata does not carry thru with the clip but I can see the channel suffix, good enough for me!
When I do a swap (option-command-down arrow or right click) the logged clip name is then displayed in the clip but then the channel info is conflicting with what was there. i.e.: if channel suffix .A1 was there in the original clip from the picture editor and then I use the field recorder swap and access that .A1 which now shows with the proper clip name, it's often not the same channel as originally displayed? (pictures below show original clip and then the swapped version that has the "same" channel suffix, you can see they are different, waveform height is on default btw)

Does anybody else see this?

Which also leads me to my next question, how great it would be to be able to highlight multiple clips and do a simple swap (without creating new tracks) from say channels .A1-.A6? Too hard with Pro Tools it seems unless anyone has a good idea for me? I know I can expand tracks but I always get such mess afterwards that I'm happier to duplicate clips and swap them out rather than clean up the PT mess of so many tracks.

Any ideas gratefully accepted?

Cheers, Ray

Ray JB 03-14-2016 01:07 PM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
1 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture of the swap info as seen in PT:-

I am right clicking the top clip which shows the channel suffix .A1 but PT thinks this is .A3

As you can see there is no channel info carried in the MXF audio clip.

Frank Kruse 03-15-2016 01:49 AM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
Hello Ray,

not sure I understand correctly. Are you trying to match back to the original BWAVs or the AVID media? Can you make all columns visible in the workspace and post a screenshot of that particular file/clip with the meta-data info from the work space browser?
Also: What have you set as the match-criteria?


Ray JB 03-15-2016 01:45 PM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
5 Attachment(s)
Hi Frank

Thanks for looking in on this.

I am trying to match back to AVID media. As you can see from the screenshots I've added here the Clip name (as it comes in from a fresh import from the AAF) is different to the actual clip name once I have matched to the MXF media.

The match criteria are default PT but with the shoot date option un-ticked.

The screenshots in order (from Left to Right) are:-

1 Original clip untouched from AAF import. Note the strange clip name
2 Original clip right click view showing what PT wants to swap out to
3 New clip once swapped out. Notice the correct clip name.
4 A view of the original clip and it's workspace entry before swap out
5 A view of the new clip and it's workspace entry after swap out

The first version of the clip name from the AAF that I get upon AAF importation is one of the strange things. The matched clips end up with the correct clip name.

Can you shed any light on this?



Ray JB 03-15-2016 01:46 PM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
1 Attachment(s)
Here's a screen shot of the match criteria:-

mfranken 03-15-2016 05:19 PM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
Hi Ray,

I've seen lots of issues with channel names not appearing correctly in an AAF but never tried to work out exactly what's going on with it or tried matching to other channels of MFX media.

I generally do a conform back to the location media (using EdiLoad to clean the EDL and generate the conform reference tracks) to make sure I have all handles, channels and then get the correct channel info.

One thing that may help you regarding expanding of the MXF media is if you set the match criteria 'Name and Sort Tracks by:' radio to 'Channel Number'. Then PT will create only a handful of tracks when you expand tracks. You can also select a bunch of clips to expand, then right-click and select: Matching Field Recorder Channels > Expand Channels to new tracks > By Match Criteria. This will then expand just the selected clips.

Hope that helps.



Ray JB 03-15-2016 06:01 PM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
1 Attachment(s)
Thanks Mark

Yes I'm aware of those things you mention. One thing I must add is that on this production the Location Sound Mixer did not record a mix track, just harvested iso channels (up to 6 of them). And so the picture editor has placed all channels onto their timeline and as such if I expand tracks I often get 6 lots of 6 tracks for each alternative.

What I really would like to get to the bottom of is why AVID is exporting an AAF without the real clip name in the first place? And also why it is not understanding the original channel number in all cases? In the screenshots above you can see from the workspace browser that the strangely named clip ex the original AAF shows a channel number of "A0". I'm confused. A screenshot of the first matched track from the track expand process as per your description is shown. As you can see, what AVID thinks is channel .A1 is really quite a different channel in reality (the actual .A1 swap is the lower clip)

I have found that it's a lot safer to get the assistant editor to create me an AAF that contains all the sibling channels of each clip referenced in the main sound AAF for the composition. This is done via AVID. I import this "alternate channel " AAF into ProTools and then de-activate and hide these tracks. Then I can happily clear unused clips and be safe in knowing I have not cleared the clip bin of any unused sibling channels that could be useful later. This is why I use the MXF material from the editor as it means that I'll always get any audio that has been supplied to the AVID, and that I may not have received in BWAV form from the location sound mixer.

Ray JB 03-15-2016 06:46 PM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
Just as a quick followup, I made a Keyboard Maestro shortcut with a function key that allows me to type two key strokes namely option-command-Up arrow and then option-command-Down arrow which toggles the clip to the "next" channel and then changes it back to the "previous" channel. The process changes the clip name to what should be there in the first place.

So now I've got to go thru the whole AAF tabbing my way and swapping the channel there and back and I'm left with an AAF with correct clip names.

Does anyone schooled in AVID know why this happens?

Frank Kruse 03-16-2016 03:52 AM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?

from looking at the media files it seems that this was recorded on an Aaton Cantar. I'm not sure what happens on that machine when you do not record the Xa/Xb tracks which are normally the mix-tracks. I always thought the machine records those tracks all the time. Maybe the recordist set his media routing to not hand over Xa/Xb to the transfer to the cutting room and that causes this glitch in combination with the poly-rotate function.

Look at the originals in WaveAgent or soundminer. It will show the Cantar's firmware. Some recordists are using beta-versions or pre-releases.

Maybe there's a bug in the firmware that causes this.

Like Mark said I'd simply match back to the originals, which is what I generally do.

You might have to change your criteria to avoid getting duplicate matches to the AVID media AND the BWAVs.

Unfortunately AVID still hasn't given us a simple checkbox that tells PT to ignore the clip list when matching.

The best match criteria for Cantar is turn every option OFF and just keep 'Tape name to sound roll name' on and only that. Sorting to your taste. This will give you just the matches from what you set in the "folders to search" window.

Not really a lot of help from me but avoiding the AVID media entirely is what I'd do.

The weird A0 tracks seem to be normal for Cantar based projects. The avid media in my past Cantar based projects was also MXF and none of the track names came across with the MXF media. But we conformed everything to the BWAVs and are fine once that's done.


Ray JB 03-16-2016 11:53 AM

Re: Any ideas on channel spill for Field Recorder "Functionality"?
That's really interesting Frank.

Yes all original media is arriving to me today so I will crack these files open and have a look under the hood to see what is happening!

I'm surprised that the MXF media does not carry the track number and name. The real reason I moved to using MXF media was that in a previous show recently that was shot on an Arri Alexa and using a lot of double frame rate shooting I was not able to reliably match the original BWAV recordings back to the AAF and I started down this path. Which at least gave me audio for each AAF Clip!

I'll report back. The next show I'm working on after this will be shot with multiple Alexa's and Cantar's

Big thanks to both Mark and Frank for helping me here.

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