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-   -   Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o. (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=393397)

MurdochSound 08-29-2017 09:15 AM

Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
Hi, this is my first question on any forum, but just wanting to check before I purchase.

I'll soon be running Pro Tools 12 HD on my mac tower. I have recently bought the Digidesign C24 (which I've countless times before, along with 2 of the old Digidesign 192 i/o to get 16 inputs, but didn't know much about the setup) But I'm wanting to use a newer system so I'm looking at the Avid HD 16x16 i/o. Now, there is the digital and the analog models.
Would I be able to use the Digital Avid HD i/o 16x16 with the C24 and get full 16 tracks recording in? Or for this would I have to buy the analog 16x16?

Darryl Ramm 08-29-2017 10:43 AM

Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
The interface is what it is, nothing to do with the C|24. Do you need analog or digital inputs? Then purchase the suitable model. We cannot guess what you need.

If you are working with analog inputs you might use the preamps in the c|24, but they are not that great. If you want to (uh I would not) use the c|24 preamps into a HD IO then you must have an analog inputs in that box.

If you are working with say ADAT inputs then you already must have some external ADAT preamp/converter that is going to drive the ADAT into the HD IO box. The C|24 does not do that.

I would not use a C|24 for analog anything, the preamp and monitoring is not great, and just use it as a pure control surface. And still then your choices for analog or digital IO boxes depend on what you want to connect them to.

The C|24 User Guide documents how to connect up a C|24 to IO boxes, you need to read that.

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MurdochSound 08-29-2017 11:18 AM

Re: Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
Hi Darryl,
I am going to buy a nice preamp for vocals and a couple for drums for a better sound, so when I track the final recordings I can get a better sound, however initially/sometimes I'll be doing live-band tracking, so I'll be using between 12-16 inputs, all mics in.

Would 16 mics > C|24 > HD digital IO work? or for that would I need to analog IO (which is four times the price).

In terms of money, at the moment, I can't go buying too much gear, therefore using as much as I can that is built in the C|24 would be more cost friendly. I'll set my eyes onto the C|24 User Guide docs soon!


Darryl Ramm 08-29-2017 11:37 AM

Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.

Originally Posted by MurdochSound (Post 2447247)
Would 16 mics > C|24 > HD digital IO work? or for that would I need to analog IO (which is four times the price).


Again, if you want to use analog line inputs like provided by the C|24 preamp outputs you would need a 16x16 analog IO not a digital IO. The C|24 is not an ADAT or other type of digital preamp or processor. It is a control surface box that had some separate analog preamps stuffed in it.

If you don't need more than 32x32 IO and especially if money is tight I would not be buying any HD IO.

What exact make/mode computer do you have? Version of Pro Tools? Do you own or plan to purchase Pro Tools HD or standard? Do you really need the HD software features?

Personally, I would be using Pro Tools standard (mmm but I don't know if the input monitor button issue with the c|24 and standard was ever fixed, something to check) and look at a Apogee Ensemble or UAD Apollo 8p. Start with one and add a second on a Thunderbolt chain, or look at ADAT options for adding more preamps.

Personally I would have avoided the C|24 unless you got a real bargain on a used one. The S3 is a more capable and modern surface, without all the size and not great analog baggage of the C|24.

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MurdochSound 08-29-2017 03:32 PM

Re: Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
Okay, so I won't look into the Avid 16x16.

I haven't looked at my computer recently (as its all in storage until when I set everything up), but its a 2009 Mac Pro (tower), 3.6ghz, 32gb ram, solid state boot with other hdd's. I'm upgrading graphics card that can run 4 visual outs. There is nothing 'extra' in it really.

I'll be buying ProTools HD (just one year subscription for now). The reason I want to buy HD is simply because of the 5.1 capabilities - which I'll be making heavy use of. I've been using the C|24 surface for several years and Pro-Tools HD - however its been in someone else studio where I've just walked in, plugged in my hdd and used - so the equipment/hardware side I've not fully known, only the surface and software.

I'll happily buy other gear, especially for a better sound, but essentially I want to run 16 individual mics into PT's.
I was looking at the ''Apogee Symphony I/O MKII Thunderbolt 16x16 Analog I/O'' - this is an expensive piece of kit, i know, but would this work? I've heard great things about Apogee - so maybe worth the investment if this is the only piece of equipment I'll be needing. If I used other outboard equipment, would all the controls on the surface be the same (gain control when tracking etc)?

I bought the C|24 because I know the desk better than the back of my hand (in terms of working with speed and ease) and because it was just under 3,000. Which I thought was very cheap for it.


Darryl Ramm 08-29-2017 04:31 PM

Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
Yes, that is a good price and reason to get a C|24.

You want HD for surround mixing which is great.

But you don't need a DigiLink interface...

But here is the problem you face. The arguably best interfaces now (expansion, ability to daisy chain and low latency) are Thunderbolt, which your Mac Pro Cheesegrater does not have, and cannot be added. And the current trashcan is so brain dead and cripped and in the process of being replaced by Apple, hopefully with something more useful and expandable. Unless you have very large VI needs, if it was me I'd be working on a current high-endMacBook Pro... with one or two Apogee Ensembles (or a lower cost ADAT preamp added to the first Apogee). I'd seriously look at factoring in a Mac Book Pro into the options.

A Digilink interface is still an option, I would look around for a used HD Native card and a used 192 IO Analog or used HD IO 16x16. The HD IO are now replaced by the MTRX, so I'd not be paying anything like new prices for those now. But that leaves you with not great preamps in the c|24z...

The Symphony II is very nice, and you could use a Thunderbolt interface to that with a single 16 x 16 card... if you had a thunderbolt compatible Mac. But you still need outboard preamps (can you tell I am not excited about the C|24 preamps). But daisy chaining two Thunderbolt Ensembles should get you places at lower cost, with much better preamps, and let you start and grow when you really need to add more IO. the Symphony has the advantage if you want to go more than 32 x 32 IO in future you can connect them up via DigiLink to do that.

MurdochSound 08-30-2017 10:27 AM

Re: Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
Aye, that's why I bought it.

I'd get the standard PT if I could mix 5.1, but unfortunately that isn't the case.

I know my machine won't allow thunderbolt, but I can't afford to buy anything fresh. A few friends have made a 'hackentosh' so has thunderbolt etc, but I can't afford that at the moment. I have a MacBook Pro 2015, 2.2GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB memory. However my issue with using this MacBook is that I ideally want to use it on the move, and I'll need 4 display outs (video out, two working monitors and one for the SlateRaven edit console/screen).

HD Native card and 192 io seems to be the cheapest option (if I buy 2nd hand from ebay), however will this give me a good enough sound quality or will it be noticeably lower than other? As there is a 'package' on ebay selling now for 700. (Link at the end if you can check it out). I am looking at buying a separate preamp for vocals and one for drums (eventually) to get a sweeter sound, as most of the stuff will be solo instruments (violins, vocals etc).

I think in roughly a year or two I'll look into getting better equipment, its just to kickstart the business really.

Thanks again for all this help, its really helping me!



albee1952 09-02-2017 10:53 AM

Re: Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
The HD DIGITAL IO is not what you need, but the 16x16 analog HD IO would do very well with an HDN or HDX card:o Used HD IO 16x16 analog boxes can be found for under $2k(but you must have these 3 things: HDN or HDX card, HD software, Digilink license($299))

As said, the C24 preamps are "pedestrian" so you will also want a couple of better preamps. Or, bypass the C24 preamps completely and use a 192 Digital(around $300) with 16 channels of lightpipe preamps(there are several variations on this and I won't burn up space for now as you may not be interested in this approach):o

MurdochSound 09-02-2017 12:12 PM

Re: Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
I've worked out the HD Digital IO ISN'T what I need. Which is good news - as I may have bought one. I ideally do want to get a couple of really good preamps for vocals etc - so with this I'd bypass the C24 preamps (once I work out how) but use the rest for all other bits I'm recording, as they'll be good enough really for what I need.

Where can you buy an analog 16x16 HD IO from for that cheap? If you could link me to anything it'd be absolutely perfect. Ideally I want 16inputs not 8 too.

I'll be getting the ProTools HD software and all licenses/iLoks etc anyway, so thats okay. What card would I need for the Mac cheesegrater? ahaa.

Whats the option with 192 you mentioned but didn't get too far into?

The issue is, I've been using the software and I know my head around the editing on the software, and the C24 well, its just I've never been a studio engineer, so now with all my own gear, I don't know the best (and cheapest) way to get a good sound from my mics to my software and back out again. Haha

ANY help is really helpful, and if you can link me to anything too, atleast I'll be finding the right things, and not accidently buying something stupid and useless - haha.

Cheers again!

Darryl Ramm 09-02-2017 12:43 PM

Record 16 inputs with C24 and Avid 16x16 Digital i/o.
You are in the UK, you are going to need to find an HD IO or HDX card for your Mac Pro. If you've been working in the studio business you likely have contacts that can suggest places to you. There is always EBay.

As already commented you need Pro Tools HD, the HD IO 16x16 analog, a HD IO (or HDX) card and a Digilink software license (if using Pro Tools HD 12.6 or later with a Digilink IO). You need to be looking though the Pro Tools Reference Guide, C|24 User Guide the HD IO User Guide. And you'll need a Digilink and DB-25 cables for preamp input, preamp-out/interface line-in and interface output, and presumably DB-25 monitoring output cables since you are doing surround. It seems like you are mostly just hanging out here asking questions, you are quite likely to run into problems if you don't start reading stuff and working out details.

There is nothing magic about bypassing preamps in the C|24, you just connect up whatever preamp you want to use to the relevant HD IO line-level input, you will need a suitable DB25 cable and/or patch bay with DB-25 in and out to make that easy to do. You'll need the actual patch cables and an extra DB-25 cable. Hard to spec stuff you since we have no idea what other hardware you have. And again you likely know local folks who can help you with this stuff.

Since you are in a tight budget and you have not mentioned any interest in HDX I assume that is a non starter and not needed.

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