Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Hi. I listen to electronic goth and industrial music. For a long time I have been wanting to learn to make my own. I have some good ideas for songs in my head.

I now have a new live in girlfriend who is an expert musician and piano player extraordinaire. I myself only know the basics.

So the time is right to get started. I have a tendency to buy once and cry once opposed to trying a sample easy program like garage band. It's hard to explain. When I get into a new hobby I go all out and try to do it right and I get good very quickly usually.

I have been doing some research and here is what I think I've learned I need. Let me know if this is right or wrong.

A computer. I have an upgraded MacBook Pro.

A DAW. The most popular being pro tools, live 9, and logic. I looked at each and like pro tools best.

A midi controller. Right now I have a full piano style keyboard with weighted keys. It had midi connections. So I need a cable with midi in and out on one end and a usb plug on the other. Will this setup work well or do I need a smaller keyboard but with drum pads and knobs and sliders and what not.

An audio interface to plug a mic into to add vocals. I was interested in the line 6 sonic port vx. That looks fun because it has a built in mic and I could walk around town and sample city sounds to add to songs like sirens or construction or what have you. Has anyone ever used this? What is the quality like?

A program of instruments like Kontact 10. So I get lots of different choices of sounds. I have read that pro tools just has the basics like pianos and organs and stuff.

How does that sound? Is that a good way to get me started? Would I need anything else to make professional quality music? Thanks for the advice.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

When you say make "professional quality music" you need a lot more quality gear.

Good Mics, Preamp, preferably a channelstrip. You need a Very well treated room and great monitors aswell.

You also need a good quality interface for recording.

If you wanna make professionally sounding music i would set aside a minimum of 12-15K as great music is done on great gear.

Also you need to have a poopload of talent which is free ;) .. But not always present.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Well you did outljne what type of project hou wanted to do. Now the question is what is your budget. Theres js a lot of other things that you need to consider. Speakers, room treatment, will you record live instruments for your project? How will you record the drums? Use samples or draw the hits jn the midi editor or use an electronic drum kit or an accoustic drum kit? Will you record live guitars with their amps or plug the guitar direct into the audio interface and use plugins like eleven mk2 or guitar rig 5 pro or others?

You have to think of all of that then write all of that down and look for the prices and then you will be able to see what you can start getting that is within your budget.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Step back and think through all what you are trying to do. You need somewhere to record, likely room treatments, microphones, cables, stands, all that stuff can add up quickly.

You very likely need monitors (powered speakers) to listen to stuff on, and headphones for use while tracking (and maybe mixing). You can spend from $100 to $100k on a stereo monitoring system alone.

You very likely will need a better interface than the one you pointed at. Maybe digital inputs and outputs, maybe multiple outputs for monitors and feeds for cue mixes (talent headphone). Line 6 Sonic Port VX... ah no please not. Get somethign better, without the gimmick of a crap built in microphone. Many much better vendors to choose from and many choices of interfaces out there... Focusrite, MOTU, UAD, Apogee, ... (once you undertsand how many mic preamps, line inputs, digital ins an outs, hardware monitoring featurs, analog outputs for monitors, monitor management etc. etc. you need, without knowing that speculating on interfaces is a waste of time).

You will need to understand interface/DAW latency and whether you can use software monitoring thought the DAW while tracking live or if you need hardware monitoring (and maybe a system like UAD Apollo or Pro Tools HDX that let you track at low latency through DSP based plugins).

.. and on and on...

Which is more my way of saying you are unlikely to actually have any clue what you want to need or be able to sanely justify stuff that can get very expensive until you get your feet wet a little trying to do stuff. I'd suggest trying to pick somethign you want to do, that can leverage as much stuff you already own, and trying to do that at reasonable cost for maximum experience learned. There is *nothing* wrong with starting in Garage Band.

Asking what you need for that. e.g. from an interface, mic, monitors, headphone, etc. perspective. If on the other hand money is not that much of an issue and you have a budget, say what that is and we can all throw out suggestions of gear...

If your keyboard has DIN MIDI connections you just need a external MIDI box, many interfaces have that included, or you can buy a stand-alone MIDI box. many keyboards also do MIDI over USB and don't need an external MIDI box. If you don't tell us exactly what you have you won't get exact advice. Same goes with what exact Mac etc.

If you want to "walk around town" recording environmental sounds a computer interface is probably not what you want. A portable or field recorder, likely with the right sort of external mic for what you are recording would be way better.

It may help to read a book on music production/Audio engineering/recording or something like watching these videos http://www.artandscienceofsound.com. .. but not at the expense of also just trying getting started doing some basic stuff yourself, especially as you read/watch along.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Oh. Thanks for the responses. I didn't know. I didn't realize it was that complicated. Let's dial it backs notch then. Let's say I want to get started learning and now realize I won't be making anything truly professional quality yet.

I want to have fun and learn and get some songs recorded that I like. I don't have much interest in real instruments like guitars or acoustic drum sets. I would like most of my music to be synth based.

Not that I want to copy anyone but if you have time YouTube Vnv nation perpetual. That's similar to what I want to make.

I have a budget of $1500 to start and already have the computer. I have a room. It is an empty bedroom but not treated. I have studio quality headphones but no speakers. Thanks.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

What exact keyboard do you have? What exact Mac model (date code model #) What make/model disk drive is in the Mac? You own any Mics other gear like that? Decent stereo with speakers (in your living room)? (what stereo/speakers?).

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

In tha t case here is my suggestion.

As Daryl stated there's nothing wrong with starting with garage band. There is also other option like reaper or even pro tools first that are very low cost or free.

If you are going to do mostly virtual instrument then you do not need a lot of input. Look at this list. To learn this would be enough and some of them actually have a midi i/o integrated.

http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_...ZSI6WyI0Il19fQ

Microphone room treatment and monitoring is where you will likely have to spend the most money to star off. Luckily for learning you dont have to spend thousands on any of that.

Speakers:
http://www.sweetwater.com/c405--Acti...ZSI6WyI1Il19fQ

Speakers are still how ever you main source of feedback to get good mixing so while you are learning you might not want to spend too much on those, you still should put a good amount on quality.

After that room treatment is a must. No matter how much you learn your speakers, your room will always throw you off if it's not treated. Again theres is a lot you can build yourself if you are handy and it may cost less. But the first thing is to measure your room response to know what you need to treat. Room eq wizard or smaart are good tools to help for that.

Microphone for vocals. To start off and to learn a simple sm 48 or 57 or 58 will do the trick. And I'm saying this in the sense that you need to learn how to place the mic to get the best results. And if and when you can get the most out of those mic and make it sound as beautiful as you can, then you'll be able to use other more expensive mics with ease and confidence that you can get great sounds out of them.

P.s. sorry for the typos im on my cellphone.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

My computer.

MacBook Pro retina 13 inch. Late 2012
2.5 ghz Intel core i5
8gb 1600 MHz ddr3

Keyboard

Yamaha electronic piano p-70

That's about all I have. For headphones I have beats studio and sennheisser hd25-ii

Why do I need speakers if I have headphones?

So my plan of starting out buying pro tools, an audio interface and mic (ok, not the line 6) a program of synths isn't good enough to start?

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Manny, why do you say monitors are not worth spending money on? A well treated studio and a great set of monitors are the heartbeat of the studio :eek:

I would put that 1500 into the bank and save up another 2500K-3000K and then get a really good set of monitors, a good interface and a good Mic.

Room treatment is as important as any piece of gear so if you have a bare bedroom everything wil sound sh/t until you do it right.

If you just want to play for fun and make a few songs for your friends then get reaper and a focusrite cheap interface, a Röde mic and be done.

Save the rest of your money as you won't get it back if and when you find your next venture ;) The gear in this price range will be 30c on the dollar after a year.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Dont get me wrong they are as you say the heartbeat. But I'm taking into consideration the level of knowledge the op has. He is still in the learning phase so because of that its even more important for him to learn to get good sounding mixes, on lower quality hardware, that translate well everywhere. This way when he gets to work with the better quality stuff he will already have the confidence in his skills. Remember the moto a great engineer can make a great song on cheap gear while a bad engineer will still make dung in great quality gear. Im also taking into acciunt that he doesn't have 10k-100k-1M to put in his place at the moment, nor does he need it to learn how to record.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Beause headphones will never have the same balanced frequency registry as a good speaker. And also because of stereo imaging. When you have head phones on even the slightest panning will almoat aound as if its coming out of one ear foing only left center or right. It will not give you a complete and precise stereo field.

It is enough to learn but what we are saying is that if you start with the minimum rught away (speaker and room treatment) you will be able to get better result a lot faster and learn more rhan if you have to fight your room mods, flutter echos etc.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Couldn't I budget something like

Pro tools $600
Kontact 10 $500
Good mic $500
Stands $150
Focus rite interface $200

Speakers $500 for a pair

That's right at $2500. I can swing that if that's what I need to do. What would I be missing besides room treatment which is really only for the vocals anyways?

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Room treatment is not only for the vocals but when mixing also. Example, smaller rooms will have a lot of troubles with low frequencies mods. Meaning that in part of the room the low frequencies will be boosted and in other part it will wanish. This will have an effect on how much you will either boost or cut out the low frequencies when you mix because the room will fool you into thinking it needs more or it needs less. That will also apply to the rest of the frequency spectrum.

Early reflection or flutter echos will play a role into how much reverb you will be adding. Example a room without treatment produces a lot of rebounding echos when the sound wave bounce from wall to wall, ceiling to floor, floor to wall etc. This can fool you to think that you have to much reverb and you will put much less than you actually intend in your mix and then when you listen to your mix somewhere else you will find it dry. Same way with the frequencies. When you will listen to your mix somewhere else you might find it bass heavy or ear screeching because theres too much compensation in the highs. That is what we are calling a mix that will translate well. If your room is well treated then when you listen to you mix somewhere else it will sound close to what you were hearing it in your room while mixing.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

That will work. Get something like a 4i2 or higher interface that has MIDI ports built in, and that saves needing a separate MIDI box.

Budget for some books, courses, videos.

You very likely will want monitors. Just much easier to mix on to start with. Say something like these to start with. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HS7 (that is $300 each=$600/pair and you need stands). And they may just be nice to play your keyboard through.

Again I'd just start with garage band and understand basic virtual instruments bundled in that. Once you actually have MIDI working and recorded some things you'll have an idea what you might want. I'd not just assume Kontakt, there are many options out there, depending on what exactly you want to do. If your interests are mostly MIDI/keyboard/VI Apple Logic may be a better choice than Pro Tools.

Toss the Beats headphones, just on principle. The Sennheisers should be OK for monitoring while tracking (closed back design so they don't leak into the mic,... but there are probably better over-ear designs for this).

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Well, the Beats are just to impress the ladies.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Area57, this is not the best place to about that, I'd start here: therecordingrevolution.com

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

I think you would be happy with Reason 8 by Propellerhead.

[emoji332]

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Should I get reason 8 as a do all program? Are any of the DAWS going to come with a lot of sounds? I guess that is one thing I am having a bit of trouble understanding, is how many sounds come with each program, what kind, and how many I need to make a song.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

I'd recommend checking out Garage Band to start learning the basics and then have a look at Studio One, which would be better for your specific needs.

Shane

Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Reason 8 comes with a lot of loops and sounds. You should check it out. Also, garage band would be a good starter DAW.
Why is everyone pushing the Studio One?

[emoji332]

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

I don't know, lol. It's a pro tools forum, I thought everyone would say it was a no brainier to get that.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

I was just going off what type of music he listens too etc..

[emoji332]

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

"He" is the OP ;)

PS. Happy to see you back here again Spin :-) you were missed!

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Thanks for the responses. One thing I should ask. I was looking through the websites for different software. I'm really just learning about computers and such. What kind of hard drive space do I need? I think my MacBook only had 256gb. I remember one of the programs saying under system requirements that it needed 12gb free disc space but something like 3-400. I don't remember but somewhere in there for complete installation.

Say I did get pro tools and some virtual instruments, would I need a bigger computer or am I reading this wrong?

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Hey South. Thanks man. Work got a little crazy.
Happy New Year.

[emoji332]

Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

You would need an external disk to save your sessions too and maybe another one for samples, loops, sounds etc.. Drive should be 7200rpm. I use Glyph's. 500gig. It's kinda up to you. You need to close your eyes and picture the future. Will you want to do this, or will you do that? Picture or audio? Bands or just yourself? It's a good idea to sit down and figure what your real aim is.
PT does come with VI's to get you started.
Others will chime in.

[emoji332]

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Your MBP internal SSD although not fast compared to current ones is likely fast enough as the boot drive and place to store VI samples--if it has enough space for them. I'd add an external SSD for sessions with a Samsung T1 USB 3 SSD. But for small sessions it all may run off the infernal drive fine. Try it and see. As you look at VI packages they will tell you how much storage for samples they need. Put that on the internal drive if it will fit. Beyond that samples should go on yet another external drive, maybe another Samsung T1.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Ah...thanks guys, because of the photo editing I do, I need to get an external hard drive anyways. They aren't that expensive these days, at least not compared to the software! I didn't realize they could store and run programs, I thought maybe they could only store the information.

On a side note, can I resell any software I buy if I decide it isn't right for me? A, I buying one copy of say pro tools, and if I don't like it, can't I sell it used, legally?

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

No your programs are all installed on the internal boot drive. Your audio session data may be better off stored on it's own external drive. The samples that are used by the VI normally go on your system drive until they get too large then those samples (or some of them) go on a separate sample drive... but just the samples, the VI programs/plugins that use the samples are installed on the system drive. The VI installers will handle all this for you.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

Awesome! thanks again! I'm learning this, I'll get this.

Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

You'll be ok Area. Your in good hands. [emoji106][emoji4][emoji445]

[emoji332]

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

youre better off with ableton or cubase with electronic music if thats what youre gonna make. their midi stuff is way better than anything pt offers. PT is better for recording, mixing etc. I know its a pt forum but its the truth man.

Re: Is pro tools what I want? What else do I need?
 

From what you have been writing about your current computer, your style of music, your budget etc. let me highly recommend Logic Pro X instead of Pro Tools, Cubase etc.!

I use both PT12HD and Logic Pro X on my system, have used Cubase, Reaper, Ableton and others in the past and I guarantee you that you will get satisfied with Logic as for
your style of music, your demand for tons of sounds, virtual instruments, loops and professional audio quality etc.

Logic is the perfect DAW if you want to make electronical music and add a few professionally sounding audio tracks finally. It comes with tons of good quality synths, loops,
sample sounds and high quality plugins. All for $199.- only.

As Logic had been added to the Apple corp. a few years ago, you now buy it via the Apple App store and you will always be up to date because it gets updated automatically
according to your OSX. Means it simply will work well with your current OSX.

Further will Logic work flawlessly with your current Macbook Pro 2,5GHz i5. Pro Tools does work with it as well nevertheless does Pro Tools like i7 Quad Core processors a lot more.

What I would recommend you to get would be
1) Logic Pro X ($199.99)
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logi...34148309?mt=12
2) Focusrite 2i2+Blue Microphone Bluebird Bundle ($299.99)
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BlueBirdScarBun
3) M-Audio Midi interface ($39.99)
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIDISport1x1
4) Yamaha HS5 (2x $199.-) ...very musically sounding yet accurate ones in this price range.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HS5
5) Monitor stands ($99.95) ...these provide you a more accurate sound from your monitor speakers than having it on the desk itself.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MonitorStd
6) SE Reflexion Filter ($199.-) ...with this one you can get professionally useable vocal/instrument recordings even in untreated/sparsely treated rooms.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Reflexion
7) Room Treatment stuff ($224.99) ...you get 12 pieces with this pack and you might put some on each wall of your room, some directly on the wall behind your monitor speakers
and some on the ceiling exactly above your desk and chair. This will provide a basic acoustical improvement of your current room for sure.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SF2in22CHA
8) External 3TB 7200rpm HDD with Thunderbolt connection ($299.99)...on this external drive you can have it all, your music projects, your photo stuff etc. and it will use one of your
Thunderbolt ports on your Macbook which will be useful because your USB ports are busy already.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Lacie/9000492U/

This will be about $1761.- all together however provide you a small but really useable and good quality home recording system.

If you would want to have a more clear and convenient view on your work you could add an external monitor to your Macbook via it´s 2nd Thunderbolt port (Thunderbolt to HDMI
Adapter required). Because you only have a 13" screen I would recommend it as well. It will be worth the extra $150.- in the long run.
http://www.amazon.com/VS248H-P-1920x...words=Asus+248

I am aware of that this is a Pro Tools forum and I am a happy PT user as well (using 12HD and 12 Native on 2 different systems) but nevertheless Logic will be the right choice for your
requirements at the moment.
If you will record and mix more audio sources in the future you then may add Pro Tools to your system later as well which still is the best DAW for audio recording and mixing particularly.
It is great to have both on your system available actually.

Hope this will help you further in a way.

The best of success to you!