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-   -   Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!? (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=371834)

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 11:47 AM

Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Good lord 12 is a terrible piece of software. I've got identical partitions for 11.3HD and 12.2HD made, the only difference being what version of PT is on there. With every update, I've attempted to use 12 for even the simplest tasks and it's been impossible. Constant crashes, weird behaviour, and just general uselessness. It's got nothing to do with the computer, it's got nothing to do with the install. I simply go back to my 11HD partition and keep on working. Like, come on with the scroll wheel people!!! How hard is it to make that work like it did in 12? Sessions I'm currently working on that work fine in 10HD and 11HD just hang, crash or behave weird in 12.2HD. That just shouldn't be.

I really can't recall any version of PT being at a .2 update and being in such rough shape as this. Stop releasing updates until things are fixed guys, this is seriously getting out of hand. I hate some of the ridiculous comments I'm seeing on this message board from people that clearly barely use the software. But I'm having a hard time not agreeing with them when I can't even use it myself on a daily basis for work.

I'd argue right now that an HD license for 10 is probably the most valuable piece of Pro Tools in existence…it was the last version that was really any good, although I am using 11 and for the most part getting away with it.

SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT AVID!!

mesaone 09-11-2015 11:53 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
So are you looking for help troubleshooting, or...?

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 12:06 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
There is no troubleshooting bad coding!! Hah.

I suppose I am merely venting, and hoping that the message is heard somewhere down the line. Sending in support requests is going nowhere, eventually they just get ignored and not responded to anymore. But seriously, the scroll wheel thing just kills me. How do you even remove or break that from one version to the next? Some guy hit delete on a line in C++ or what?

M-ManLA 09-11-2015 12:09 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Well, it's so far fine for me! I've even dug up some old Pro Tools 6 and 7 sessions and loaded it up! It works smoothly!

Maybe someone didn't update all the drivers like you suppose to before installing Pro Tools 12?

deanrichard 09-11-2015 12:16 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Is it possible that having PT11 and PT12 co-installed is causing problems? I have found PT12 to be about as stable as PT11, though my usage doesn't stress the system much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegfried Meier (Post 2293060)
Good lord 12 is a terrible piece of software. I've got identical partitions for 11.3HD and 12.2HD made, the only difference being what version of PT is on there. With every update, I've attempted to use 12 for even the simplest tasks and it's been impossible. Constant crashes, weird behaviour, and just general uselessness. It's got nothing to do with the computer, it's got nothing to do with the install. I simply go back to my 11HD partition and keep on working. Like, come on with the scroll wheel people!!! How hard is it to make that work like it did in 12? Sessions I'm currently working on that work fine in 10HD and 11HD just hang, crash or behave weird in 12.2HD. That just shouldn't be.

I really can't recall any version of PT being at a .2 update and being in such rough shape as this. Stop releasing updates until things are fixed guys, this is seriously getting out of hand. I hate some of the ridiculous comments I'm seeing on this message board from people that clearly barely use the software. But I'm having a hard time not agreeing with them when I can't even use it myself on a daily basis for work.

I'd argue right now that an HD license for 10 is probably the most valuable piece of Pro Tools in existence…it was the last version that was really any good, although I am using 11 and for the most part getting away with it.

SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT AVID!!


Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 12:16 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Please tell me what drivers you're referring to. I've installed everything that is listed in my account, and that shows up in the Account Manager.

The rig that 12HD is running on is using UAD Apollos, and all those drivers are up to date as is all the software/plugin updates (a very vast list) and all else.

If the session runs fine in 11HD, then it should be fine in 12HD...dontcha think??

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 12:17 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deanrichard (Post 2293080)
Is it possible that having PT11 and PT12 co-installed is causing problems? I have found PT12 to be about as stable as PT11, though my usage doesn't stress the system much.

Co-installed on 2 separate hard drives?? I don't think so man…

PT12 is supposed to support Mountain Lion, so that's clearly not causing issues either. I'm not saying it's totally unusable. But with plugin heavy mixes, it just doesn't hold a candle to PT11.

JoelG 09-11-2015 01:10 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegfried Meier (Post 2293083)
Co-installed on 2 separate hard drives?? I don't think so man…

PT12 is supposed to support Mountain Lion, so that's clearly not causing issues either. I'm not saying it's totally unusable. But with plugin heavy mixes, it just doesn't hold a candle to PT11.

Perhaps that is the problem then. AFAIK Pro Tools should be installed on the system disk, sessions/audio on a separate drive.

Joel

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 01:14 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
*face palm*

Ok, I'll say this one more time. These are FULL INSTALLS ON SEPARATE HARD DRIVES. They're full system installs, on separate external SSD hard drives. No one said anything otherwise.

Sardi 09-11-2015 02:06 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Skim reading... just don't do it.

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 02:33 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Plugin Presets weren't working in PT11HD. After some research, changing folders etc. I got them to work again…gone once again in PT12. I followed the info here, still gone:

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...settings-PT-11

After resetting all the preferences, I get a lockup everytime it gets to the last few plugins in the list - usually Xform or White Amp Free - I have to remove those from the list, let it finish - then shut down Pro Tools (at which point it consistently crashes once again), put those plugins back in the folder, restart again and then we're usually ok. If this is normal behaviour then you guys are out to lunch.

I love that picture someone previously posted of the 1 dude (programmer) with a stack of "in" documents on his desk and no "outs"…it has never been more fitting than right now...

Emcha_audio 09-11-2015 02:43 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Since you haven't posted your system specs in your profile. What is your system specs?

Also, personally, I work with 12.2 on a desktop windows 7 64 ultimate no problem, and on a laptop windows 10 and beside a resizing bug for the main window, no problem either.

john1192 09-11-2015 02:59 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegfried Meier (Post 2293118)
*face palm*

Ok, I'll say this one more time. These are FULL INSTALLS ON SEPARATE HARD DRIVES. They're full system installs, on separate external SSD hard drives. No one said anything otherwise.

"external SSD hard drives" .. this is the only thing that sent up a red flag to me .. are you running the 2 Systems off of External Drives ??

and please give us your system info .. and i understand you say all is correct but you never know .. happy to help if i can .. cheers john

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 03:11 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
One SSD is internally on my Macbook Pro - that's with PT11HD, the other is inside an OWC Thunderbay 4 bay chassis along with my sample drives, backup drives etc.

Macbook Pro mid 2012 2.3G quad i7, 16GB RAM, 10.6.8 etc, Apollo Twin/rack (on this system anyway). We have multiple HD systems at the studio and on the road, they're all behaving the exact same way. It's not the computer or the system or the drives guys. It's BAD CODE. AVID needs to stop releasing these updates without them actually being checked first.

If someone tells me my external SSD installs are causing the scroll wheel of my Kensington trackball to stop working in PT12HD, but work in 11HD, then I'm gonna tell you to give your friggin' head a shake.

mykhal c 09-11-2015 03:23 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegfried Meier (Post 2293118)
*face palm*

Ok, I'll say this one more time. These are FULL INSTALLS ON SEPARATE HARD DRIVES. They're full system installs, on separate external SSD hard drives. No one said anything otherwise.

did you check the console for any messages at the time of failure?

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 03:29 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
At the time of what failure…?

midnightrambler 09-11-2015 03:36 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
12.2 operating okay here too on 10.10.5. I drove it quite hard earlier (plug-in heavy mix with VIs) and got the usual couple of crashes from overdoing something (who knows what, probably some VI related thing), and a couple of "Drives not fast enough" errors that I've not had for a while (?! despite having disk cache on 30Gb or something crazy), but otherwise, not too bad.

mykhal c 09-11-2015 03:40 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegfried Meier (Post 2293172)
At the time of what failure…?

at the time you are getting pissed?;) i'm just sayin' see if there are any messages on the console that 'might' help...

soybalm 09-11-2015 03:41 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
I run a Mac Mini with a separate drive. The mouse scroll is a new option. Just untick it. It's set to jump from track to track with no motion. I think that's a cool feature that I don't need but it might be nicer for dealing with a 100+track count. All is okay so far.

john1192 09-11-2015 04:03 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by soybalm (Post 2293182)
I run a Mac Mini with a separate drive. The mouse scroll is a new option. Just untick it. It's set to jump from track to track with no motion. I think that's a cool feature that I don't need but it might be nicer for dealing with a 100+track count. All is okay so far.

hi dave, is this in PT pref's ???

to the OP .. your on 10.6.8 ... i assume you have looked at this already ... http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...tibility-Chart

soybalm 09-11-2015 04:47 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
re: scroll wheel. Also, I'm running Maverick. But look in Preferences/Operations-misc? and you can turn off that mouse behavior.

Sardi 09-11-2015 07:45 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by john1192 (Post 2293189)
to the OP .. your on 10.6.8 ... i assume you have looked at this already ... http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...tibility-Chart

Indeed.

OP, first you say this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegfried Meier (Post 2293167)
Macbook Pro mid 2012 2.3G quad i7, 16GB RAM, 10.6.8 etc, Apollo Twin/rack (on this system anyway).

But then you also say this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegfried Meier (Post 2293083)
PT12 is supposed to support Mountain Lion, so that's clearly not causing issues either.

So which is it? Are you running SL or ML? If it's ML, cool. If it's SL, v11 isn't supported let alone v12.

Bookerv12 09-11-2015 08:12 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
I guess I ended up with some "good code".
Phew!

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 08:54 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sardi (Post 2293243)
Indeed.

OP, first you say this:



But then you also say this:



So which is it? Are you running SL or ML? If it's ML, cool. If it's SL, v11 isn't supported let alone v12.

Bah…I meant 10.8.5…it's not Snow Leopard, don't worry. I'll just say the name of the damn cat from now on, forget the numbers.

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 08:56 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by soybalm (Post 2293199)
re: scroll wheel. Also, I'm running Maverick. But look in Preferences/Operations-misc? and you can turn off that mouse behavior.

I don't think we're on the same page re: the trackball scroll wheel…

I can't scroll through my plugin list with the scroll wheel any longer, that's what I'm talking about. Why would there be anything to tick off in the system preferences? I didn't change operating systems…it works fine in PT11HD…

Scroll wheel works fine in other normal Pro Tools use, so this makes no sense.

Sardi 09-11-2015 09:01 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegfried Meier (Post 2293260)
Bah…I meant 10.8.5…it's not Snow Leopard, don't worry. I'll just say the name of the damn cat from now on, forget the numbers.

OK cool.

Well, you're right. It's not your OS. ;)

Siegfried Meier 09-11-2015 09:15 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
I'm gonna throw some positives out there now! I forced myself to use 12HD instead of 11 all day, and I was able to track bass and guitars for 3 songs without any crashes or hiccups. Now I wasn't taxing my rig by any means, so it really isn't a complete indication of all is well, but I can see why a lot of users have no issues with it.

Now fix the damn scroll wheel!!! ;-)

john1192 09-11-2015 10:03 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by soybalm (Post 2293199)
re: scroll wheel. Also, I'm running Maverick. But look in Preferences/Operations-misc? and you can turn off that mouse behavior.

Pro Tools Pref's .. not system pref's .. i will take a look a that .. thank you

and yes, the Lion of the Mountains should be fine ..

i myself am not upgrading anymore until Baby Harp Seal comes out .. ;) ;)

studioj11 09-11-2015 11:26 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
FWIW PT12 has been much more stable for me than 11. Last few projects I've had maybe 1 or 2 crashes total in a few weeks.

I think the scroll wheel behavior is a new preference in Pro Tools. Release notes will probably have the information.

VRW 09-12-2015 02:23 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
- :confused:
definitely cannot confirm PT12 being bad either.

Used systems:
2014 MBP i7 Quad, 16GB, 512GB Flash
UAD Apollo (software v8.3)
3TB LaCie Thunderbolt external
Mac OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Pro Tools HD 12.2, Pro Tools 12.2 (Native)

2012 MBP i5, 16GB, 512GB Samsung 850 Pro
Apogee Duet, UAD Apollo (software v 8.3), Focusrite Scarlet 2i2
several external 7200rpm FW800 drives
Mac OSX Yosemite 10.10.4/5
Pro Tools 12.2 (Native)

using Waves, MCDSP, Lexicon, SSL Duende, Softube, Soundtoys,
Slate, HOFA, Relab, Izotope, UAD, Native Instruments, IK Multimedia etc.

Further on both systems installed:
Logic Pro X 10.2 incl. all included libraries, loops etc.
Sony Soundforge Mac
all the basic OSX applications and programs

Have been running every version of PT from LE7 to PT12 and have to say
12 is one of the finest so far, here at least.
Stable, great sounding and a joy to use most of the time.
Absolutely no issues on the i7 system, on the i5 system only "Drives not fast enough"
and some CPU overload errors from time to time which is more related to the (not supported)
not really powerful 2012 i5 processor.
Happened with 11 as well. However its does happen rarely and therefore
does not interfere the workflow seriously.
So maybe I am just lucky but I have heard a lot good things from other users
about 12 too.
I am sorry for the OP but there must be something system related which causes
all that problems imo.

Anyway all the best to you and everyone. Hope you can solve it finally.

soybalm 09-12-2015 02:32 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by john1192 (Post 2293266)
Pro Tools Pref's .. not system pref's .. i will take a look a that .. thank you

and yes, the Lion of the Mountains should be fine ..

i myself am not upgrading anymore until Baby Harp Seal comes out .. ;) ;)

yes on the PT pref's.

Stereo Missile 09-12-2015 03:06 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Protools 12.2 seems to be running very well here on Yosemite on a new install, haven't had a crash yet on the new system. I've had the odd weird Delay Compensation issue in HDX that is resolved by restarting.

Now I'm not saying protools is without bugs, of course it has some bugs but on the whole it should be running pretty stable. It seems to me that if some users are having stable behaviour and others are finding it almost unusable that these are probably issues related to particular systems rather than general bugs.

The obvious culprits would seem to me to be things like:

- Problems with the OS installation
- Problems with the Protools or plugin installation
- Incompatible, out of date, or buggy 3rd party plugins
- old unsupported video codecs or other old system extensions
- disk permissions issues
- Hardware or firmware issues
- Corrupted or problematic OS user accounts.
- Unsupported or old graphics cards
- Systems not optimised properly for protools

As a start I would remove all third party plugins from the plugins folder, trash preferences, reinstall protools, ensure iLok drivers are up to date, repair permissions and then see if you can make it crash.

If it's still crashing then try creating a new user account on your computer and reinstall.

If it's more stable, then try adding your 3rd party plugins back in one by one and see if you can make it crash.

@tention 09-12-2015 07:00 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Not on 12, but cannot see how a new splash screen can make a program unstable. :D

Cliffy_Boy 09-12-2015 08:43 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by @tention (Post 2293338)
Not on 12, but cannot see how a new splash screen can make a program unstable. :D

Well said. Because that's the only change. If 12 works better it's because something that got corrupted in 11 got fixed by a new install. In my setup, 11 and 12 are identical. In every way including performance.

Kinda like driving through the prairies and seeing the sign welcoming you to Saskatchewan. It's the same as Manitoba.

V5V 09-12-2015 09:12 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Missile (Post 2293318)
Protools 12.2 seems to be running very well here on Yosemite on a new install, haven't had a crash yet on the new system. I've had the odd weird Delay Compensation issue in HDX that is resolved by restarting.

Now I'm not saying protools is without bugs, of course it has some bugs but on the whole it should be running pretty stable. It seems to me that if some users are having stable behaviour and others are finding it almost unusable that these are probably issues related to particular systems rather than general bugs.

The obvious culprits would seem to me to be things like:

- Problems with the OS installation
- Problems with the Protools or plugin installation
- Incompatible, out of date, or buggy 3rd party plugins
- old unsupported video codecs or other old system extensions
- disk permissions issues
- Hardware or firmware issues
- Corrupted or problematic OS user accounts.
- Unsupported or old graphics cards
- Systems not optimised properly for protools

As a start I would remove all third party plugins from the plugins folder, trash preferences, reinstall protools, ensure iLok drivers are up to date, repair permissions and then see if you can make it crash.

If it's still crashing then try creating a new user account on your computer and reinstall.

If it's more stable, then try adding your 3rd party plugins back in one by one and see if you can make it crash.

You may be right. That said, it doesn't make me feel any better about Pro Tools.

Having to jump through hoops to make PT happy might feel reasonable if it was common for software to be so finicky, but when Pro Tools is the ONLY thing causing problems -- when every single other app I use works fine -- it just seems like Avid is doing something no one else is doing (or missing something everyone else IS doing).

Pro Tools is just too fragile and finicky. It shouldn't be up to me to make sure my system accommodates PT's idiosyncrasies. It's up to Avid to make it reliable across a typical range of systems. Everyone else does.

dr_daw 09-12-2015 09:18 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliffy_Boy (Post 2293355)
Well said. Because that's the only change. If 12 works better it's because something that got corrupted in 11 got fixed by a new install. In my setup, 11 and 12 are identical. In every way including performance.

Kinda like driving through the prairies and seeing the sign welcoming you to Saskatchewan. It's the same as Manitoba.

HA!! I think only Canadians would get this one, because neither province in an upgrade :P No offence to the flat landers.

Wall2Wall 09-12-2015 11:08 AM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
For years the only way I have been able to avoid problems is to wipe and do a clean install when updating OSX or PT. Seems there are always lingering incompatibilities with both that cause issues when doing a straight upgrade. I would never think about running two version of PT on the same machine. It's a hassle but it works for me.

Shoot, I have a mobile office laptop that upgraded from windows 8.1 to 10. It worked fine for 2 days than all heck broke loose and it froze up/crashed constantly. Had to do a clean install of 10 and reinstall programs and all has been fine.

sw rec 09-12-2015 12:06 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Huh. My PT 12 works better than my PT 11 did. I didn't take the "shortcut" install path...uninstalled the HD driver, then ProTools 11HD, then in stalled the new HD driver, then PT 12, off and running (WIn 7 64-bit Ultimate.) The ONLY thing that was out of the ordinary was it not liking my WaveArts plugins and my UA plugins. Re-installed those, and back to work. (BTW, Win 10 hasn't been qualified for PT yet, so do THAT at your own risk. Avid clearly states that you NOT try to run PT on Win 10 quite yet.)

Rajsmoove 09-12-2015 01:38 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
Running 12HD Native and its been more stable than 11HD for me so far. Haven't had as many playback errors, and I like the fact that even when it seems like it is erring I just get the beep but it keeps going. I'm not a fan of the new session dialog but functionally I am happy. Can't wait for track freeze!

Siegfried Meier 09-12-2015 04:13 PM

Re: Why is 12 sucking SO BAD?!?
 
What preference are you guys referring to?

I only see this:

Mouse Wheel Scrolling Snaps to Track

If you think that has anything to do with scrolling through plugins in your list, then hand over whatever you dudes are smoking, I need that sh•t.


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