Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Looking for opinions...

I have:

Early 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 lntel Xeon E5642 @ 2.80 Ghz, 2 processors, 8 ores, 26 GB RAM
Geekbench 3 scores: 1672 Single-Core/11,717 Multi-Core Score
Boot drive is SSD
Est. Street Value: $500

I'm considering replacing with:

2010 Mac Pro 5,1 2x Intel Xeon Westmere 6-Core 3.46Ghz Processors, 32 GB RAM
Boot Drive will be SSD
Geekbench Score: Multi-Core around 30,000
Est. Ebay price $1,800 to $2,200


I own a Pro Tools HD Native card and 2 blue 192 interfaces. I don't want to go the Hackintosh route and I just can't stomach the price of a trash can Mac Pro.

Pros/Question: Will going from 11,000 to 30,000 multi-core score give me a performance "high" I will seriously notice when it comes to tracking with plugins natively and latency?

Cons: I'm not considering future of USB 3/Thunderbolt etc. Old machines eventually die (e.g. power supply, MB - anything could die at any time) Yet Mac Pros are built very well.

Stick with what I've got? Spend the money? Hold out for the trash can mac? Wait even longer for the Mac Pro prices to come down? What say ye oh Pro Tools HD brothers? I know this question is subjective, just looking for thoughts.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

The question is how close do you come to maxing your current system *regularly*?

IMO, the sweet spot is the 3.33GHz hex from 2010. I'm seeing them well in the sub $1k range and they have good power. With the 2010 you have a much faster FSB (same as 2009), faster RAM than the 2009, and a fast single processor speed, which generally equates to superior low-latency performance.

Add an SSD and you have great performance. Double the processors and you have one of the very fastest Macs available.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I went from a HD3 system and a MacPro 2008 to a MacPro with the specs as described in your post - a 2012 model. Bought an Apollo FireWire with an extra quad system and ProTools 12.4 HD. I had the same concerns as you, but I am so pleased with my new system and feel I have a lot of mileage in it. Best investment in a long time.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I went from the same 2008 to a 2009 modded to the 2010 specs you listed and I could not be happier.
I think the cost of the 2009 machine and the cost of the upgrade put me around the asking price you mention so the prices aren't that far off.
For me it was a good purchase.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

A geekbench score of 30,000 means it outclasses most of the newer trashcan mac range. There is only a couple of macs in existence that are more powerful than that. I do think you will be impressed.

If it were me, I would get the 2010 mac pro you have mentioned. I wouldn't put a sata SSD drive in it though. Get a Samsung SM951 m.2 drive and an PCIe m.2 adaptor. http://barefeats.com/hard200.html

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Agreed lots of power little investment

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I recently bought a used 2009 8 core for 350.00, upgraded it to a 5.1 12 core for an additional 300.00.

Same specs as the one you are looking at.

I would be patient and search local sales where you can get a 2009 8 core. Your average user has no idea they can upgrade it to a 12 core!

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Thanks everyone. Really good tips, especially Barry. I like the idea of buying locally if possible to avoid the heavy shipping charges (let alone potential damage during shipping). I'm holding out for that sweet deal.

I'm still a bit perplexed when it comes to the value of CPU speed and associated Geekbench single/multicore scores when it comes to Pro Tools and particularly latency when tracking through plugins. Suffice it to say that every detail matters to varying degrees. For example:

1.) Interface Speed - in my case Native HD card over digilink cable to a pair of digi 192 blue interfaces. How would Firewire 800, USB3 or Thunderbolt compare? A bit of a non-starter in my case because I really like my Digi 192 blues, they're an exceptional value on the used market right now. I also have such a great mix of IO right now with them, including analog, AES, SP/DIF and ADAT. No new interfaces offer this much, yet most people probably don't care. Any thoughts?

2.) CPU speed - 2.4, 2.66, 2.8, 3.33, 3.46 - to me differences matter a bit less here but I can't speak to this totally because I only really have experimented with a 2006 mac pro and 2008 mac pro. Thoughts on how much this aspect matters?

3.) Number of Cores - 4, 6, 8, 12? - I'd say this matters a lot for Pro Tools. More cores is better. Thoughts?

4.) RAM speed/Amount of RAM - yeah fast RAM is better and more RAM is better to a point. For me if you have over 20 GB you're fine unless you use huge samples on huge sessions.

5.) Hard drive speed - SSD's are without question the way to go for boot drives - do they matter much for working drives? Also worth it to get a PCIe card M.2 SSD drive and double speeds that are already pretty fast on the normal SATA bus?

6.) Graphics card power/speed. I'm less interested in this because I only need basic graphics supporting 1920 x 1080 resolutions.

7.) Computer's chipset speed - yeah here's a fun one. This kinda cuts to the whole architecture question, trash can mac vs mac pro tower.

It all adds up to a Geekbench score. And will we see greatly improved hardware out of Apple any time soon? I would say, probably not as the market for Apple is clearly less desktops and more mobile. Will prices come down on the trash can macs - sure they will - but feels like a slow drop right now. Meanwhile your 2012 and older mac pro towers will have hardware failures at some point, for example power supplies. And you don't want that during a critical session. Still I just love mine, feels like a sherman tank.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

From my limited knowledge > it's always best tongs with cores over speed. M
So a 6 core at a lower speed would still be more powerful than a 4 core at a higher clock speed

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I just did an upgrade from a 4.1 8 core Nehalem to a 5.1 12 core Westmere, with an OWC SSD for a boot drive. The Geekbench numbers went from 11000 to 30000. The difference in responsiveness is tremendous. And you get a faster computer than most of the trash cans for far less money. In every respect, it's worth the money.

I had someone from Avid tell me at AES that in their tests, Westmeres outperformed the trash cans. For a third or less of the price.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

When you're ready PM me, I'll walk you through the whole process!!!!

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

If it were me, I would get the 2010 mac pro you have mentioned. also as LDS stated I wouldn't put the SSD in a drive bay. But would go with the Samsung SM951 m.2 drive and an PCIe m.2 adaptor he mentioned in one of the remaining pcie slots

The PCIe SSD option as oppose to putting it in a drive bay it costs more but you will be creating a more future proof machine. The New Samsung SM 951 , 512 GD is the fastest option . Also for that era Mac (c MP) make sure you get the SM 951 in AHCI - M2 version, not the NVMe version.
As a quick comparison in that mid 2010 - 2012 westmere

And HDD give about 130 to 150 read/write speed
An SSD in drive bay about 250 - 350
A samsung sm 951 256 GB in pcie slot 3 or 4 about 500 to 750
A samsung sm 951 512 GB in pcie slaot 3 or 4 about 1200 to 1600

Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Well, I have a Mac Pro 2010 12 core 3.33 ghz (2010 not 2009 flashed) coming with 64 GB of RAM - got a deal on it - $1,470 shipped (has a 5770 vid card, an 240 GB SSD and 1 TB drive which I don't really care about). I'll definitely consider the M.2 on the PCIe card - great tip! I'm hoping that going from a geekbench multicore score of 11,000 on my 2008 Mac Pro to over 30,000 on this new machine will equate to being able to set the hardware buffer lower for lower latency tracking with native plugins. Of course, I could be totally wrong. I'll report back my results.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

So I have installed the Samsung SM 951, 512 GB PCIe SSD In PCIe slot 3 of myMid 2010 333 GZ 6 Core Westemere,

Here are some speed test results using the free (app store) "Black Magic Disk Speed Test".

The new SSD

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...pskdk3r3tt.jpg

And here is the old HDD

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...pswywqlfyv.jpg

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I have the same machine (but mine is upgraded 2009) and have never been happy with its power. I never felt like i got the PT 11 speed gain.

I might have to try this pcie SSD.

K Roche do you have your multi core before and after scores. I think mine is currently around 15kb

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I do not know what "multi core scores" are...... how do you test for them?
I do still have Mavericks installed on one of my two HDD drives, so I can run a before and after test by switching which drive I boot . Thats how I ran the BlackMagic tests shown.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I would definitely recommend getting a 2010 or 2012 12-core. You can find them for around $2k on Ebay.

Benchmark speeds are comparable to the new trashcan Mac Pro.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I'd love to know your "results" if you have anything conclusive yet to share regarding latency and tracking with plugs...

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Good evening everyone.


Old thread if I may revive. Still running my 2008 mac pro 2.8 quad core, and recently just got a deal on a 2010 2.8 quad core. Will remain on PT9 for a while longer. I don't know much about the technical aspect between the two, so any input would help my decision on which one to keep?


Please forgive for the small screeshots



THANKS

Attachment 10822

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

i mean from memory the quad in the 2010 is a little more powerful clock for clock..

but if you really want a meaningful jump, i would get the 6 core 3.46 ghz model readily available from ebay or OWC.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

The ram isnt just faster, the whole internal bussing is faster too. And the 2008 macpro’s Have the old EFI, and can’t be upgraded without hacking. A 2010 or 2012 can run the latest operating system and be fully loaded to be pretty closer to a brand new Mac. My 2012 is upgraded to 12-core 3.45, and it scores higher than all the trash can macpro’s, except the very top one.

But if you are going to bother get a 2010 or 2012. You should get a 12-core model. The Ebay price has gone down since my post above from two years ago. You can get one for as low as $1k-1200, pretty well loaded.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Thanks kindly luciepalmer & TNM for for information. I was intrigued with the old 2008 Mac Pro, level 2 cache being 12 megs, and the 2010 being level 2 cache only being 256k ?.


Also PT9 has been incredibly stable on my 2008, should I bump up to 10 ?. I aware I can buy 10 on ebay with new ilok2 for a decent price ?


Thanks a million for your time.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I think the 2008 only has an 8MB level 2 cache, per processor.

Either way, the 2010 added a level 3 cache. 12MB PER PROCESSOR (x 2). And it’s L2 chafe was 256k PER core (x12)

Much more powerful processors. Look up the Mac Benchmarks at Geekbench to compare speed tests.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

OK I see you have changed the OP to the 6 core, and YES, that will be worth it, of course!

Absolutely...

I am a big fan of those machines, pcie slots, 4 sata bays.. The only downside is usb 2 and no TBolt.. BUT.. i recommend at least to put one 4 slot usb 3 pcie card if you have the space..I believe even gen 2 cards are available now, 10 gb/s throughput, but i am NOT sure which ones are mac compatible, so can't help you there.. but that would be *great* for external SSD's if you need portable storage at all.

You can also easily soft raid ssd's in the sata bays there and get even better performance..

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

To me, the really big place where the old MacPro falls short, is the internal storage. Those bays are only SATA II. That's slower than USB3. The key to getting the most out of these old machines is to use the PCI slots to expand storage. A USB card is definitely a good idea. Maybe even a PCI expansion. I'm using two of them. One of mine (about $800) includes four slots for SSD drives, so you can RAID them together and get insanely fast storage for relatively cheap:

http://www.netstor.com.tw/product_in...70324150339015

That one doesn't take full length cards, so if you are using HD or HDX use this:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._3_0_slot.html

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Nothing better than the most recent 2018 builds of Pro Tools. If you spend money on an upgrade or a new copy, I would only recommend getting PT 12 or 2018. Also load MacOS 10.13 on your new machine. Everything is solid and stable. They've also pushed out tons of new features in the last year.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Thanks folks, my logical thinking wasn't so logical I guess (LOL). I just gravited to the cache thingee, and also noticed the Mac pro only had (4) memory slots, as opposed to my 2008/ which has 8 memory slots, even though I knew the 2010 mac has faster memory. Also I literally took my SSD bay drive out of the 2008, and swapped in the 2010 mac, and fired right up, *BUT*, is taking longer to boot ?.



Out of my reach for now for storage bay, although I do have a OWC SSD Mercury Electra 6G for the the boot bay drive, can I use that drive (interchangeable) and buy a pci card, and install on that ?


*AGAIN*, THANKS KINDLY, for taking time out of your busy schedules to guide me along. Been out of the loop since I got PT9;)

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Yes, OWC makes a PCI card that you can plug an SSD drive into and get the drive's full SATA III speeds. The down side is that you are kind of 'wasting' a PCI slot because its capable of so much faster than just SATA III. (Look into SSD PCI blades. Sometimes OWC sell old and open box deals in they famous semi-annual Garage Sale). Although, running a super fast boot drive only really helps for booting and launching programs. You aren't going to get Pro Tools to perform better. Faster storage is more important for your projects to live on. Put your projects on a PCI slot.

BTW, if you only have 4 memory slots, then it's only a single processor machine. Dual processors would have 8 slots. That's a shame. I just looked at the specs you posted, and it's possible your old 8-core MacPro will perform better with Pro Tools than the newer 4-core MacPro.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

*RATS*


You are correct, my 2008 has 2 processors (8)cores, as opposed to to the 2010 single processor (4)cores.



Well I can at least swap the video cards ?, old failing 250XT, and put in the Raedon 5770.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Yes, you can use pretty much anything for video cards, but go with one that says it was made for Mac. It’ll save you some headache later. FYI, the Nvidia GeForce 1080 and 1070 models have been working great for me. And OWC has a good one too. It’s a white card. Forgot the model name.

BTW, you could always upgrade to a dual processor, 12 core. You have to replace the CPU tray. EBAY has some kits that include the tray, processor, and sometimes the ram. Looks like they range in price from $275-500.

https://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=...+5%2C1+upgrade

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

i'm gonna interject there and say load sierra instead, 12.12.6

why recommend an OS that Avid don't?

Unless he loads an earlier version, prior to 10.13.4

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

If you're replacing the video card be aware that older graphics cards won't support Metal with the new Apple OS Mojave.
This includes the Radeon 5770.
You should probably think about purchasing a Metal compatible graphics card.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Thanks so much folks. Okay here's what I'm planning on. staying on PT9, with Lion.



5770 is the original Mac vid card. I don't understand support metal?. Sorry, been out of the loop, so please forgive.



I also just read that the single core runs more efficient than the duo core ?, and not all software utilizes all the cores ?

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Apple Insider website say this about Metal;
"In order to run the new macOS Mojave, Macs must have graphics hardware capable of supporting Metal, Apple's modern low-level, low-overhead software that provides access to graphics processing."
If you plan on staying on PT9 and Lion I guess it won't matter, but if you ever intend to upgrade to the newest OS (and Pro Tools) then it is a consideration.
You can always upgrade your graphics card later of course.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Yes, true. I cant argue with that at all. I’m still running 12.12.6, but I’ve seen the last few releases of PT run extremely well with versions versions of 10.13. If I were setting up a new system right now, I would pick one of the 10.13 releases. But I prefer to stay on the bleeding edge. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

Thanks folks, well I think I will run both computers and see how the responsiveness is between the two. I'll know right off hand if the single processor is up to par in the 2010 Mac Pro is going to cut it when I use Melodyne, when using it with my 2008, Melodyne always quits during transfer, and I have to continually transfers in sections, if the 2010 transfers the the audio without quitting, that will tell me the throughput is much better.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

FOUND REALLY INTRIGUING.
YOU FOLKS ARE TRULY GREAT & HELPFUL.
Okay I just did something I always was frustrated with Melodyne, on my 2008 Mac Pro when transferring analyzing a track, it would always quit during transferring, and I would have to start again where it left off. WOW, I just did a track, and with many plugins in the session running already, which I never do, and always use melodyne with no other plugins so it wouldn't strain the computer. Anyhow it rendered the track (FLAWLESSLY), and with many plugins running. I'm sold !. I never saw that with my 2008.

Also I just swapped the SSD driver from the 2008 and fired right up in the 2010, but on the hardware playback engine it still sees *8* cores, and not the quad core for the single processor?. Perhaps that why it takes longer to boot up ?.

Should I do a clean install ? thanks again

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

If I may ask one more question please?


Looking to snag an upgrade as recommended, X5690 CPU, not really sure which one, or are they all the same ?


thanks

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

I would recommend getting a whole kit on EBay. It comes with a tool and thermal grease, etc.

I think mine are the X5690.

Re: Worth replacing 2008 Mac Pro for upgraded 2010 Mac Pro?
 

And make sure they are not the decapitated ones for 2008/2009 MacBook Pro. For 2010 and newer you want the ones that still have the lid on the top. If you look down at the top of the processor, it’s flat silver metal.

If the top is been removed, you will see some gold components; that’s not the right one.