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-   -   2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations... (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=24783)

Jules 05-23-2002 03:17 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Come on keep it together, keep unity get Mixerman & Rail in the same room dont let anyone 'shy away' now because of test condition bickering... Hold a steady course..
[img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

DaveCarlock 05-23-2002 07:54 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Mixerman cannot make it Saturday and weekends in general. I'm awaiting his response on whether he can arrive with everything ready for him at 9pm sharp Friday night since we finally have a non-bumpable commitment from Sound City in Van Nuys.

I have offered to handle teardown so he can leave as soon as he's done. Hopefully he can do his part in 60-90 minutes and we can be finished with the debate one way or another.

DC

loudist 05-23-2002 08:16 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
OT: Lifted and stolen from another board...

3 engineers were on a flight from NY to LA. During the flight, talk turned to recording. Two of the guys were very pro PT. One was not. During the debate of PT vs analog, the analog fan got up to go to the restroom. The 2 PT engineers decided to teach the other guy a lesson. While he was gone, the 2 guys put pretzels in the shoes he had left under his seat. After a bit, he returned with drinks for everyone. Near the end of the flight, he discovered the trickery. Just before touchdown he remarked, "Allright, I love analog, you guys love PT, why can't we just get along and stop all this snacks in shoes and pissing in drinks?"

Heheh... exactly!!

RKrizman 05-23-2002 11:43 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DaveCarlock:
Mixerman cannot make it Saturday and weekends in general. I'm awaiting his response on whether he can arrive with everything ready for him at 9pm sharp Friday night since we finally have a non-bumpable commitment from Sound City in Van Nuys.

I have offered to handle teardown so he can leave as soon as he's done. Hopefully he can do his part in 60-90 minutes and we can be finished with the debate one way or another.

DC

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

RKrizman 05-23-2002 11:45 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DaveCarlock:
Mixerman cannot make it Saturday and weekends in general. I'm awaiting his response on whether he can arrive with everything ready for him at 9pm sharp Friday night since we finally have a non-bumpable commitment from Sound City in Van Nuys.

DC

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FWIW, Friday night is great for me. We can watch the end of the game while setting up.

-Rick

Lynn Fuston 05-23-2002 02:27 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DaveCarlock:
What do you mean "all tracks?" You can send any pair out the AES out of a RADAR 24 (don't know about RADAR IIs). I do it all the time. If you are wanting to sum tracks through the AES outs (why would you want to?), then you're out of luck.

Lynn Fuston
3D Audio


That's the idea and I am out of luck with the RADAR. The plan was to put the tracks with various mixes (6-8 tracks)in input and take the mix we wanted to listen back to out of input. All tracks would be set out a pair of outputs and allow all the mixes to come out the same device, same outputs, same cables, same converters. Instead of DATs or CDs which would require a playback machine for each mix and a switch box pre converter.

Any one else have a device that will do this? I was told the MX-2424 will do it.

DC

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And why is it that selecting the track outputs to AES on the RADAR won't work? Certainly, you'll have to change either the output cable connection or the source if you are listening back through a stereo DAC. I don't understand how switching the outputs in a prefs page would be too difficult. But do what works for you.

Lynn Fuston
3D Audio

DaveCarlock 05-23-2002 03:41 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
<<And why is it that selecting the track outputs to AES on the RADAR won't work? Certainly, you'll have to change either the output cable connection or the source if you are listening back through a stereo DAC. >>

I'm trying to find a solution with instantaneous switching of the mixes and the capability of continuous audio to give a more focused listening test. I can achieve this by putting tracks in and out of input. In other words-all the advantage of a multi source switcher box, yet having all mixes in one playback unit to eliminate variables in the test.

That's the goal. Any ideas?

(Obviously, MM has ruled out printing to anything but RADAR, or CD for his test. So if he can make it Friday night, it will most likely be CD. At this point, we would like him to show up. The MX-2424 is not important enough to blow his involvement.

But for other testing we may do, I'm still looking for another multitrack that might be "better" than an MX-2424.

DC

rpowell 05-23-2002 06:35 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
"When the mooooon is in the Seventh Houuuuuse...

And Jooopiter aligns wiiiiith Marrrrrs"

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

RP

DaveCarlock 05-23-2002 07:24 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
And peeeeace will guide our plaanet

And lu-uve will rule the stars!!

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius

Age Of Aquarius!!!

Aquarius!!! (horns!!)

take the high note Mixerman!

...

rpowell 05-23-2002 10:47 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DaveCarlock:


take the high note Mixerman!

...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unless it's being mixed down to an MX-2424 [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

RP

Mixerman 05-24-2002 02:27 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DaveCarlock:
<<And why is it that selecting the track outputs to AES on the RADAR won't work? Certainly, you'll have to change either the output cable connection or the source if you are listening back through a stereo DAC. >>

I'm trying to find a solution with instantaneous switching of the mixes and the capability of continuous audio to give a more focused listening test. I can achieve this by putting tracks in and out of input. In other words-all the advantage of a multi source switcher box, yet having all mixes in one playback unit to eliminate variables in the test.

That's the goal. Any ideas?

(Obviously, MM has ruled out printing to anything but RADAR, or CD for his test. So if he can make it Friday night, it will most likely be CD. At this point, we would like him to show up. The MX-2424 is not important enough to blow his involvement.

But for other testing we may do, I'm still looking for another multitrack that might be "better" than an MX-2424.

DC

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dave,

Don't sweat it. We'll make it work fine. None of this is really a problem.

Mixerman

Lee Blaske 05-24-2002 06:15 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Dave Carlock wrote:

Quote:

And peeeeace will guide our plaanet
And lu-uve will rule the stars!!
This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius
Age Of Aquarius!!!
Aquarius!!! (horns!!)
take the high note Mixerman!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have learned well the art of diversion, Grasshopper. Go forth into the world. There is nothing more I can teach you.

Lee Blaske

loudist 05-24-2002 08:43 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Lee,
Can I get you a drink?

DaveCarlock 05-24-2002 10:35 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Saturday's test has been cancelled due to MM's schedule conflict and other loose ends. Many thanks to Rail and Shivaun at Sound City for the generous offer of the studio time.

Thanks also to digiengineer and Roger Robindore.

We'll try try again.

Loudist, I could use that drink. NO... WAIT... I'll get my own.

DC

digiengineer 05-24-2002 10:35 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Ok... so it seems we have a better chance of bringing peace to the Middle East than we do getting this test together. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Don't give up DC, we still have a fall back position of June 15th. This will give you time to bring all of the parties and gear together. Is Sat. June 15th good for everyone? DC? MM? RKrizman? Rail?

David R 05-24-2002 11:03 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
You guys are welcome to use my mix room at Bay 7. Call me at 818-506-8942. Neve, Studer. Rail has been here before.
David

slangification 05-24-2002 11:51 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
These threads are ridiculous.

loudist 05-24-2002 01:08 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Bartender, another special round for my friend slamification...

slangification 05-24-2002 01:53 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Hey Loudist, this guy needs your suggestions:

http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ub...1;t=004329;p=1

loudist 05-24-2002 08:05 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Naahh slamification, he's got enough as*holes kicking him already... and you excel in this area.
Maybe you can get him to slash his wrists or swallow his tongue ala Lecter...
That would make your weekend wouldn't it?

slangification 05-24-2002 10:58 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Actually, my pretty, I thought you and terrydrums might hit it off.

RKrizman 05-24-2002 11:07 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by digiengineer:
Ok... so it seems we have a better chance of bringing peace to the Middle East than we do getting this test together. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Don't give up DC, we still have a fall back position of June 15th. This will give you time to bring all of the parties and gear together. Is Sat. June 15th good for everyone? DC? MM? RKrizman? Rail?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Weekends are apparently impossible for MM, and at least difficult for me. I have a 5 year old who looks forward to "Saturdaddyday" and really doesn't give two hoots about the low end of an HD system. But if everyone else can make it I can probably bend. Actually, Claire has very discerning ears and would no doubt have a solid and defensible opinion ("I like it because it makes my loose tooth tickle"), so maybe I'll just bring her.

-R

RKrizman 05-24-2002 11:09 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Blaske:
Dave Carlock wrote:


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have learned well the art of diversion, Grasshopper. Go forth into the world. There is nothing more I can teach you.

Lee Blaske
[/QUOTE]

Hi, Lee. You're early, we're not even up to 100 posts yet.

-R

loudist 05-25-2002 08:20 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by slangification:
Actually, my pretty, I thought you and terrydrums might hit it off.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ladies and Gentlemen, here we have an example of a TROLL coming in to piss on someones cheerios for the sole purpose of stirring up some ****.

slangification 05-25-2002 10:07 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Relax Loudist. I was just teasing you back. I thought you could take it. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

But I think some teasing is in order for this thread. It's funny Loudist should call me a "troll". Since I'm fairly new to these boards, I didn't know what that was - so I went and looked it up. And I got a good laugh. I was intrigued to learn that there's a term for what Mixerman is doing. Basically, I learned, a troll is "someone who posts misleading information to get a reaction." I learned that "it is futile to refute the claims of a troll", etc., etc.

This entire thread, and its predecessors, are all the victims of a "troll".

It's interesting to note that the people who are so worried about Mixerman's claims are people who do not have PT|HD systems. Those of us who have them know that there is no problem with the low end, or we, and I in particular, would be making way more noise about it than non-HD owners ever could. And if my own ears were not enough to detect this flaw, I would be hearing about it from the top mixers and artists I know who are currently using the HD system, and who instead have high praise for the sound quality.

Mixerman, I'm sure, will continue to schedule new tests for days that are "impossible", etc., and to find ways to debunk any tests that are performed, and will probably continue to drive gullible traffic from here to his little forum. And some of you guys will continue to "feed the troll." And, believe it or not, somebody might even tease you somewhere along the way.

http://www.altairiv.demon.co.uk/troll/trollfaq.html

DaveCarlock 05-25-2002 11:49 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Slang,

I do have an HD system and for me, this whole thing is an exercise in designing a good test. Some of us are learning a few things here and thinking through a model--not unlike any other mental exercise--chess, etc.

The goal of course is to actually do something with this info--restage the test. The test is based on a claim that would be important for me to see by myself--HD's alleged deficiency. It's also pretty important to have MM there since he started this thing to begin with. Did he see a ghost in the midnight graveyard or was it fog and the reflection of a passing truck's side mirror? He needs to be there if he's ever going to change his stance. So we are beholden to a combination of a few people's schedule to do this right.

Now at the end of the examination of the model itself, we're all becoming more and more impatient to do the test. I know I am. But keep it all in perspective. We all have real work to do, some have families to spend time with on designated days (otherwise we'd never see them--we all have to set boundaries at times) but most of us don't expect to be surprised by the test results. I am not nearly as concerned as I was 2 months ago, but I still want to hear for myself. Going to the graveyard at midnight should be fun.

This is also about exploring another person's point of view. He may be right or wrong, but perhaps the biggest mental exercise going on is trying to challenge ourselves to be truly openminded to examine his claim. Not to take a "Knicks will kick the Laker's *****!!" point of view based on home team prejucides or some amazing psychic ability that just makes one "know"... If we're all so psychic, why can't more of us win the lottery?

This is not something for a reader to lose sleep over. Just enjoy the discourse in whatever way you can and if you don't enjoy it or find any part of it interesting, go do something you do enjoy.

Some people spend a life time saying "we STILL have to do lunch" and don't really mean it. But it's not going to be that much longer for a retest and I do mean it when I say I plan to do it, contrary to some of the ribbing I've gotten. But along the way, we can't make it top priority because there are things WAY too important ahead of it.

DC

loudist 05-25-2002 02:21 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by slangification:
These threads are ridiculous.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Quote:

Originally posted by loudist:
Bartender, another special round for my friend slamification...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Quote:

Originally posted by slangification:
Hey Loudist, this guy needs your suggestions:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Quote:

Originally posted by loudist:
Naahh slamification, he's got enough as*holes kicking him already... and you excel in this area.
Maybe you can get him to slash his wrists or swallow his tongue ala Lecter...
That would make your weekend wouldn't it?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Quote:

Originally posted by slangification:
Actually, my pretty, I thought you and terrydrums might hit it off.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You thought I was joking...? I wasn't.
I don't see the joke in your post.
Maybe (to borrow from our old friend Lee) you are just too hip for the room.

Chap 05-25-2002 07:56 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Go Dave!.. If you pull this off, let the results speak for themselves. You're actually using your powers for good. (Is your Spidey sense tingling?)
Many of the guys here are just posting links to their own sites. Is that 'spamming'? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
I trust your ears and process. Rock on.
Chap

Lynn Fuston 05-28-2002 09:27 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by RKrizman:
Weekends are apparently impossible for MM, and at least difficult for me. I have a 5 year old who looks forward to "Saturdaddyday" and really doesn't give two hoots about the low end of an HD system.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Finally, some sense of perspective. I'm glad someone here recognizes things that are truly important.

Good job, Rick.

Happy Early Father's Day.

Lynn Fuston
3D Audio Inc

PS: If this drags out much further, people can just listen to my next comparison CD (3D ADC CD) and see how HD compares to an 888|24, and IZ next to Apogee, Cranesong, Prism, dB Tech, Swissonic, dCS, Metric Halo, Weiss, Benchmark and many more. I wasn't planning on having a 2" machine in the lineup but there will be one there. I'll be in the studio on June 15th. But the CD won't be out until later in the summer.

Steve Smith 05-31-2002 07:30 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Is that it then? is this thread dead in the water? I have been away.. did a test date get scheduled?

Steve

Jules 05-31-2002 05:32 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
yes, is this hot air baloon still floating?

[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

loudist 06-01-2002 03:29 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Heed!!

DaveCarlock 06-01-2002 09:46 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Smith:
Is that it then? is this thread dead in the water? I have been away.. did a test date get scheduled?

Steve

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Still working on it.

Here's an interesting aside regarding the thread:

I was talking to a Digi employee at Digiworld today asking for directions. Out of the blue he made a snide reference to this thread, so you can bet the test is still on--in his honor!!

Thankfully, I met with one of the designers of the 192 and he is very supportive and interested in the test. He's is keen on making sure the 192 is up to speed. He's been great. A brilliant designer and nice guy.

Thanks for asking Steve, I'll let everyone know what's going on.

DC

Steve Smith 06-04-2002 08:25 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
coolio...

edhamilton 06-05-2002 04:35 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
I have resisted the urge to post in this thread but.....

Dave, do you really have difficulty understanding why a digi employee would make a snide remark about this entire soap opera?

I know a helluva lot of engineers who do 2 inch transfers into PT (mix and HD) and not one single one of them has heard what MM did.

Your efforts however are deeply appreciated. I agree with your methodology and eagerly await the results. I do not mean to add yet another contrary voice at this point. It just seems that you may be a bit too close and sensitive on this topic at this point.

I am sure you will settle this once and for all (wishfull thinking I bet).

Best of luck.

DaveCarlock 06-05-2002 10:34 AM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Hi Ed,

I only have difficulty believing it due to the context--a trade show where Digi guys were on the clock. I suppose it was the idealist in me who wanted to be treated like a valued customer at the show. But no one's perfect--it's no big deal. I guess I should be more worried if everyone from Digi high-fived me. Perhaps that would mean I wasn't being objective enough.

However, just because I defend MM's stance and look forward to seeing if it can be repeated shouldn't put me on the "anti-Digi" list. I have been a TDM customer through 4 hardware versions of PT over 6 years. That should say something about my belief in the product.

But so there are no misunderstandings in the minds of readers, I've had excellent relations with the head of Digi customer service (the man who oversees this DUC, in fact). He offered to put me in touch with one of the 192's designers. Both have been truly interested in our results and willing to do anything we'd ask of them to help, without intruding into the process.

On rare occasion I am outspokenly critical. But when I am, I try very hard to be fair. I don't want to trash anyone. If anyone has had that impression, I apologize and I'll try to be clearer. The people who really matter at Digi have been totally pro. It takes patience to work so hard at something and have it ripped apart every day on the DUC.

I appreciate their commitment to maintaining a free forum for all users to gather and discuss. It is a feather in their cap and a smart marketing decision. They can be the "fly on the wall" as they sift through all the nonsense and look for ways to better satisfy customers.

As far as being "too close" goes--if you mean I need a day off, I won't turn one down!! And I'll try to take one soon. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for your encouragement Ed. I plan to maintain radio silence on this unless someone asks a specific question or I have some good news on test dates. MM was checking into tomorrow or Friday, but no word yet--be assured we are continually trying to plug in dates. But assume it's NOT happening yet unless you hear back from me.

DC

digiengineer 06-05-2002 05:40 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
June 15th is still an option. You know how to find me.

DaveCarlock 06-05-2002 09:26 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Thanks as always Digiengineer but MM CANNOT do ANY weekends. With the exception of Thursday (tomorrow) I'm booked weekdays till July.

MM could not get Cello for tomorrow, test is not happening.

Have fun in the meantime everyone, it's a short life.

DC

johnnyv 06-05-2002 09:59 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DaveCarlock:
Thanks as always Digiengineer but MM CANNOT do ANY weekends. With the exception of Thursday (tomorrow) I'm booked weekdays till July.

MM could not get Cello for tomorrow, test is not happening.

Have fun in the meantime everyone, it's a short life.

DC

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow. I guess it would appear then as though the test has been postponed until at least July. Hmmm.

J

DaveCarlock 06-05-2002 11:30 PM

Re: 2" Transfer into 192--the original timeless classic. Accept no imitations...
 
JohnnyV, you feel my frustration. The thought of another 3 weeks makes me cringe.

Let's say this: if someone else wants to take the role of event coordinator and get with MM regularly about his schedule and all the other details handled, I'll make an effort to cut out early one day for an early evening test. As it stands, MM and Cello have the HD system covered, so that takes that responsibility off me. If everything else is in line, I'll make a valiant effort. But I have to keep my priorities in line.

Whenever I have days shift around, I have always contacted MM to check his schedule.

Rick Krizman maybe? Want to volunteer to pull your hair out on this front? Anyone?

"No" is an entirely acceptable reply.

DC


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