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-   -   Avid S1 & S4 (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=405672)

reichman 07-18-2019 11:03 AM

Avid S1 & S4
 
...have been announced. They fill clear and obvious holes in the control surface line-up. And it demonstrates continued commitment to EuCon.

Thoughts? Anyone have prices?

BScout 07-18-2019 11:12 AM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
My first dumb thought was are we finally getting eq curves on the Control App? (You know the thing that was shown on the Dock product pages for marketing at the beginning and never materialized. Hopefully marketing isn’t doing the same stupid thing again)

Also hope automation match indicators come to the Control app for those channel strips shown on the S1.

Part of me wonders if the S3 fits in now. Also like the new S4 MTM (looks better than the S6 with displaying the 7.1.2 panners in the main area.) Also the tilt up knob unit (which I saw Jeff do on the S6 but haven’t seen the means to do built-in for our S6s)

Interestingly, looks like the process units won’t be available for the S4 according to Westlake but all other modules will. Seems a strange oversight. I wonder if the S6 M10 config is dead now (and to some extent the S3).

RecRoom 07-18-2019 12:11 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
According to PTE the S1 price will be comparable to the Artist Mix ($1k) and the S4 will be $25k-ish.

Frank Kruse 07-18-2019 12:19 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
From a sound editor's POV my questions are:

Are there automation control buttons on the S1? (preview, write etc.) any other hotkeys? The dock eats up too much space for my taste.
In an ideal world I wish the elgato streamdeck could support Eucon or (vice versa?) plus 2 S1 and I'm set.

The size of the S1 is great, I hope it's possible to optionally remove the iPad holder if you prefer to have the ipad lying flat in front of it instead for easier access to soft-keys without stretching out your arm.

F.

Southsidemusic 07-18-2019 12:57 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Prices of the S4 was higher than I guessed ...

https://www.sweetwater.com/shop/new-...e-controllers/

reichman 07-18-2019 01:23 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Kruse (Post 2533094)
From a sound editor's POV my questions are:

Are there automation control buttons on the S1? (preview, write etc.) any other hotkeys? The dock eats up too much space for my taste.
In an ideal world I wish the elgato streamdeck could support Eucon or (vice versa?) plus 2 S1 and I'm set.

The size of the S1 is great, I hope it's possible to optionally remove the iPad holder if you prefer to have the ipad lying flat in front of it instead for easier access to soft-keys without stretching out your arm.

F.

The Dock eats up too much space? Frank, we'll all chip-in here on the DUC to buy you a bigger desk. :D

I love the Dock because it's so small I can travel with it and set it up anywhere. A Dock and an S1 in a flight case would be a great combo.

But to your point, you can use PT|Control on an iPad w/o the Dock and the soft key section on the iPad would be very similar to the Elgato. There are a lot of little iPad stands for doing that.

Jamie Mac 07-18-2019 01:24 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
How on earth can a “budget s6” cost more than a s6 m10-8-5?

For the cheaper s3 style faders 10-15k would have been a more sensible starting point.


Edit:

S4 8 fader: 24000
S6 8 fader: 22000

S4 16 fader: 38000
S6 16 fader: 41000

S4 24 fader: 53000
S6 24 fader: 57000


They are FAR too close together in price to be marketed for smaller studios, you’re better off spending more on the s6, because of the way better faders.

Frank Kruse 07-18-2019 01:52 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by reichman (Post 2533097)
The Dock eats up too much space? Frank, we'll all chip-in here on the DUC to buy you a bigger desk. :D

I love the Dock because it's so small I can travel with it and set it up anywhere. A Dock and an S1 in a flight case would be a great combo.

But to your point, you can use PT|Control on an iPad w/o the Dock and the soft key section on the iPad would be very similar to the Elgato. There are a lot of little iPad stands for doing that.

Yeah I know, I'm odd :D

I look all that unused "grey matter" on the dock and the massive jog wheel that I don't use and then at the streamdeck with 32 keys on endless levels and tactile feedback and it sits next to my keyboard at about half the size and cost of an iPad mini and say to myself: if it could only understand Eucon, there'd be room for even a third S1 with better ergononics.

Looking at the buttons of the S1 it seems like it's exactlly an Artist Mix with the buttons moved above the faders and slimmed down, which is great. There was a lot of unused space on the Mix and the Control. But for quick editing the hotkeys need to be close to where the hands are. A Streamdeck with Eucon would be killer, I could put 3 S1 where there used to be a Mix and a Control and still have as many hotkeys I want and I can place them where ever I want. Finder shortcuts, Keyboard Maestro custom macros and Eucon all on the same controller auto switching to your custom key maps when you switch to a different application.

F.

DHS 07-18-2019 02:10 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Mac (Post 2533098)
How on earth can a “budget s6” cost more than a s6 m10-8-5?

For the cheaper s3 style faders 10-15k would have been a more sensible starting point.


Edit:

S4 8 fader: 24000
S6 8 fader: 22000

S4 16 fader: 38000
S6 16 fader: 41000

S4 24 fader: 53000
S6 24 fader: 57000


They are FAR too close together in price to be marketed for smaller studios, you’re better off spending more on the s6, because of the way better faders.

yeah... This initially peaked my interest but I picked up my 32 fader M40 on used market for 40 plus a support plan They've been on market long enough to find decent pricing if you really want an s6 over the s4. Maybe a new s6 is coming soon though that will make the s4 pricing make more sense.

Jamie Mac 07-18-2019 02:49 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DHS (Post 2533108)
yeah... This initially peaked my interest but I picked up my 32 fader M40 on used market for 40 plus a support plan They've been on market long enough to find decent pricing if you really want an s6 over the s4. Maybe a new s6 is coming soon though that will make the s4 pricing make more sense.

Yeah I get that. But it isn’t really fair to call the s4 a budget-conscious more affordable option. When what you are actually doing is making the cost of entry to s6 a lot more expensive, by killing off the m10.

Marsdy 07-18-2019 03:13 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
I’m sure Avid has done its market research and produced something leasing companies will happily fund. That said, I can’t help thinking the S4 should have been something entirely different. Something that people would actually buy in the £10/15K range that also serves as a replacement for the sadly missed C24.

As for the S1. Why isn’t it also an S3 fader expander? Duh!

reichman 07-18-2019 04:22 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Strictly from a price/power ratio, I'm very happy with S3/Dock in my personal studio. When I work at bigger studios with bigger hardware, it's great, but not always necessary.

Darryl Ramm 07-18-2019 05:33 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Can I use two S1 together?

smurfyou 07-18-2019 05:41 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Mac (Post 2533098)
How on earth can a “budget s6” cost more than a s6 m10-8-5?

For the cheaper s3 style faders 10-15k would have been a more sensible starting point.

Honest question how do you know what faders they're using? Are you at the show? I think the S6 faders are the best Digi/Avid have ever had, it'd be a shame to cut corners there.

smurfyou 07-18-2019 05:42 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2533126)
Can I use two S1 together?

Yes. PTE states up to 4 + a Dock.

Darryl Ramm 07-18-2019 06:57 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfyou (Post 2533128)
Yes. PTE states up to 4 + a Dock.

Thanks Will. Yipee.

reichman 07-18-2019 07:01 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfyou (Post 2533127)
Honest question how do you know what faders they're using? Are you at the show? I think the S6 faders are the best Digi/Avid have ever had, it'd be a shame to cut corners there.

https://www.avid.com/products/avid-s4/compare-s4-and-s6

BScout 07-18-2019 07:16 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by reichman (Post 2533139)

Even Avid's own comparison sheet is wrong on at least 1 thing. The S6 M10 config (now no longer for sale) now supports display modules with the "+" option (at a $3k price plus display modules)

Couldn't even get their own website right on the day of both being announce.

smurfyou 07-18-2019 08:47 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by reichman (Post 2533139)

Thanks. Not that Alps faders are a bad thing but of all places to cut costs...

I guess I'm not the only one that expected something between S3 and S6, not a reworked cheaper S6.

S1 is a winner if it's not too expensive. But going by the S3 price they'll have it at $3k.

BScout 07-18-2019 08:54 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfyou (Post 2533148)
S1 is a winner if it's not too expensive. But going by the S3 price they'll have it at $3k.

They've said it'll be near the Artist Mix pricing. Which puts the S1 near $1k. Rumour was around $1.3k.

MixerGuy 07-18-2019 09:20 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
S1 is $1,200. Avid said so somewhere.

what I want to know is on the S1... are there (one handed) automation mode switching buttons? to go to touch / latch / trim / etc. (?)

reichman 07-18-2019 09:29 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixerGuy (Post 2533150)
S1 is $1,200. Avid said so somewhere.

what I want to know is on the S1... are there (one handed) automation mode switching buttons? to go to touch / latch / trim / etc. (?)

If you set the EuCon pref for the REC switch to change automation modes, you can individually cycle modes on each fader by hitting REC.

I don't see dedicated mode switches like on the Dock or master section of the bigger boards, but EuCon is highly programmable. There's a way...

Jamie Mac 07-18-2019 09:32 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfyou (Post 2533148)
Thanks. Not that Alps faders are a bad thing but of all places to cut costs...

I guess I'm not the only one that expected something between S3 and S6, not a reworked cheaper S6.

S1 is a winner if it's not too expensive. But going by the S3 price they'll have it at $3k.

The s6 faders are indeed amazing, and for me the major reason to want to buy one. But now Avid have made that impossible by shifting the premium faders to the m40 only.

Compared to the s6, the alps faders feel like plastic toys.

The S1 will have the same faders as the 20x more expensive S4.
Making the S1 the real winner of the day.

diamondschwin 07-19-2019 08:33 AM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
I got some hands on time with these in Nashville.

S1 does not have automation buttons and the “dock” portion that holds an iPad is permanent. So it’s depth is quite a bit deeper than an Artist which is unfortunate.

S4 looks great, biggest issue I see with it is the faders are about the same quality as an S3. To achieve the same quality feel as a d command or d control you still need to move to an S6, which is a shame since I see the S4 as the D Command replacement.

The new version of the Avid ios control app was alpha software so very buggy but it looked cool. Apparently the meter mode works because it detects you have the appropriate control surface, so that functionality is not backwards compatible with the artist series.

Frank Kruse 07-19-2019 08:47 AM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by diamondschwin (Post 2533168)
I got some hands on time with these in Nashville.

S1 does not have automation buttons and the “dock” portion that holds an iPad is permanent. So it’s depth is quite a bit deeper than an Artist which is unfortunate.
.

Thanks for the info. From the picture it does seem it's more or less exactly an Artist mix in terms of hardware elements with better faders, better rotaries and slimmer foot print. Do you know if Artists and S1 can combined? Like a Control and an S1 or a Mix and an S1? I also hope they give the PSU a longer cable so it can be placed off the desk. The Artists ones all have this high pitch buzz and you can't put them further away as the cable is very short.

F.

Emcha_audio 07-19-2019 03:16 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Mac (Post 2533152)
The s6 faders are indeed amazing, and for me the major reason to want to buy one. But now Avid have made that impossible by shifting the premium faders to the m40 only.

Compared to the s6, the alps faders feel like plastic toys.

The S1 will have the same faders as the 20x more expensive S4.
Making the S1 the real winner of the day.

According to this, only the s4 has alps faders, both the m10 and the m40 still have the TKD faders

MixerGuy 07-19-2019 03:38 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Thanks Max - great info.

Kind of bummed that there are not automation mode buttons.... UG. I'm switching in and out of different modes all the time

I guess i could mouse right hand, and fader left hand..... :confused:



Quote:

Originally Posted by diamondschwin (Post 2533168)
I got some hands on time with these in Nashville.

S1 does not have automation buttons and the “dock” portion that holds an iPad is permanent. So it’s depth is quite a bit deeper than an Artist which is unfortunate.

S4 looks great, biggest issue I see with it is the faders are about the same quality as an S3. To achieve the same quality feel as a d command or d control you still need to move to an S6, which is a shame since I see the S4 as the D Command replacement.

The new version of the Avid ios control app was alpha software so very buggy but it looked cool. Apparently the meter mode works because it detects you have the appropriate control surface, so that functionality is not backwards compatible with the artist series.


BScout 07-19-2019 04:11 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixerGuy (Post 2533210)
Thanks Max - great info.

Kind of bummed that there are not automation mode buttons.... UG. I'm switching in and out of different modes all the time

Shift + Rec button next to fader flips through automation modes.

Mishabou 07-19-2019 04:33 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic (Post 2533095)
Prices of the S4 was higher than I guessed ...

https://www.sweetwater.com/shop/new-...e-controllers/

Why would someone buy the S4 ? Less buttons, cheaper faders (rep told me they are S3 faders) for the same price as the S6M10.

BScout 07-19-2019 09:06 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mishabou (Post 2533217)
Why would someone buy the S4 ? Less buttons, cheaper faders (rep told me they are S3 faders) for the same price as the S6M10.

The M10 is no more

Jamie Mac 07-20-2019 03:40 AM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mishabou (Post 2533217)
Why would someone buy the S4 ? Less buttons, cheaper faders (rep told me they are S3 faders) for the same price as the S6M10.

Because they have killed off the M10 which was a superior product.
Making the S4 now the cheapest option, only big no-go is the cheap faders.

As soon as the stock of M10's dries out, the only option for customers in search of high quality faders is the M40. A huge blow for anyone in post, who wants the best possible faders to ride all day but isn't interested in the displays etc..

Eddie said somewhere else, that "most people think the S3 faders are great"..

A statement I find hard to believe. I wonder how many S6 users they questioned. Compared to the S6 and ICON faders, the ALPS faders are toys.


To give you an idea:

A replacement S3 fader costs 35 euro
A replacement S6 fader costs 125 euro

Emcha_audio 07-20-2019 08:56 AM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BScout (Post 2533233)
The M10 is no more

While That’s true. The m10 can get an upgrade to receive monitors it’s dubbed the m10+

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...d-s6-m10-range

Rich Breen 07-20-2019 09:42 AM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Anyone know if an S1 can be integrated in with an S3 for 24 faders?

MixerGuy 07-20-2019 09:29 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
does anyone know if there is a 'clutch' button on the s1 to make the faders dead, so when i'm moving around in ProTools (and not using the faders for some time) i dont have to listen to them clanking up and down... ?

:D

BScout 07-20-2019 09:32 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixerGuy (Post 2533300)
does anyone know if there is a 'clutch' button on the s1 to make the faders dead, so when i'm moving around in ProTools (and not using the faders for some time) i dont have to listen to them clanking up and down... ?

:D

Eucon has suspend faders. It's both accessible from the Dock/Control app and from Eucontrol on the computer. Flip it on and the faders won't clank around.

globaleric 07-21-2019 02:20 AM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Are there any hints that a S1 would not coexist with a MC Transport?

Cheesehead 07-22-2019 06:05 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
I think the really exciting bit of this release is, it looks like you can have 2 or more Ipads with different screens open, or at least that's what I'm hoping.
So you could have one as a dedicated panner and one on the shortcuts page etc etc. Fingers crossed.

filmixer 07-23-2019 12:51 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixerGuy (Post 2533210)
Thanks Max - great info.

Kind of bummed that there are not automation mode buttons.... UG. I'm switching in and out of different modes all the time

I guess i could mouse right hand, and fader left hand..... :confused:

There are three pages of user keys in the Control app. You can customize to your heart's content. You don't need a Dock to use the app, only an iPad or Android tablet. Here's a screenshot of the user keys at the bottom of the interface.

albee1952 07-23-2019 04:05 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Breen (Post 2533260)
Anyone know if an S1 can be integrated in with an S3 for 24 faders?

I'm guessing probably not, but you could sell the S3 and recoup enough to get a pair of S1's and add the 3rd for 24(but you'll lose the second row of encoders and OLED display). UNLESS(and that's the big wildcard) Avid is going to allow S3 units to be paired for 32 faders(not sure if the hardware is going to allow that).

filmixer 07-23-2019 06:26 PM

Re: Avid S1 & S4
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixerGuy (Post 2533300)
does anyone know if there is a 'clutch' button on the s1 to make the faders dead, so when i'm moving around in ProTools (and not using the faders for some time) i dont have to listen to them clanking up and down... ?

:D

You can make a user key in the Control App. I have it on the 3rd user page beneath "Preferences".


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