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-   -   Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11? (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=338894)

Brahamnesik 06-28-2013 04:24 PM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
Hello,

It is clear that the reason why the Control 24 moved from the "unsupported" to the "will not work" section is just planned obsolescence. Talking technical difficulties is ridiculous, serious coders don't discover things as they go along, like a month before the release. They just wasn't sure of their marketing strategy for legacy hardware, that's it. Not to mention that they never really tried to implemented new functions since the release of the Control 24 but that's another topic...

Let's face it, AVID just made a very bad decision in terms of marketing and commercial strategy:

1 - Writing driver and coding an ethernet protocol is not rocket science, even if the audio architecture in PT11 has been rewritten from scratch, we're talking control surface... They don't realize that the update price + let's say an extra $200 for Control 24 users would be fair and a lot of potential cash for AVID. If Third party can make their control surfaces work with PT11, why AVID couldn't? Maybe they don't want to see anything with the brand DIGIDESIGN on it?

2- Command 8, DIGI 002 and HUI protocol, which are the same generation, will probably work. Why?

3- When they say that HD system will not work at all in PT11 is also planned obsolescence. Of course the TDM architecture will not work BUT there's Core Audio 8 channels drivers for HD hardware. So why it's not possible to use it in the PT aggregate since it's not DSP related. I can't find a clear answer to this question. Anyone?

I understand that AVID, as any other company, need to make money. But it's unfair to their loyal customers and don't assume it's purely financial. Plus nobody's asking anything free, everyone seems ready to pay for it. Also, they don't take into consideration the studio business, they're just making mid sized studio to struggle even more with their strategy and that's unfortunate.

So, if I have one advice: keep your system as it is and buy HARDWARE. To be honest, Pro Tools is no longer a strong commercial argument. I see so many people using Reaper, Logic or even Live. They just don't care what's in the computer, they want to see racks full of hardware and a big console.

AVID reminds me of Apple with the iPhone, they were pioneer and with their stupid strategy in terms of software updates, Android is now leading the market. Out of 10 of my friends, 8 switched for a Samsung and in comparison I see more and more musicians that don't even care Pro Tools anymore, they're using Garage Band, Logic or Reaper. Not to mention Sonar and Cubase.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Pro Tools but since they don't want to keep their clients, we won't follow and promote them anymore.

Kenny Gioia 06-28-2013 05:42 PM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brahamnesik (Post 2055902)
3- When they say that HD system will not work at all in PT11 is also planned obsolescence. Of course the TDM architecture will not work BUT there's Core Audio 8 channels drivers for HD hardware. So why it's not possible to use it in the PT aggregate since it's not DSP related. I can't find a clear answer to this question. Anyone?

I have no idea why this wouldn't work either but is this really a way to work?

Connected to DSP cards that you're not using just to use an Avid interface?

Wouldn't selling the interface and the cards be a better solution?

Brahamnesik 06-28-2013 05:49 PM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia (Post 2055951)
I have no idea why this wouldn't work either but is this really a way to work?

Connected to DSP cards that you're not using just to use an Avid interface?

Wouldn't selling the interface and the cards be a better solution?

No, because you could use let's say PT10 for tracking will all the advantages of TDM with no latency and then switch to 11 for mixing and if you're all ITB you'll get the benefits of offline bounces. Also, HD cards would sell for peanuts now, better keep them.

Kenny Gioia 06-28-2013 05:57 PM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brahamnesik (Post 2055960)
No, because you could use let's say PT10 for tracking will all the advantages of TDM with no latency and then switch to 11 for mixing and if you're all ITB you'll get the benefits of offline bounces. Also, HD cards would sell for peanuts now, better keep them.

You would prefer to mix Natively with a DSP card based system?

I agree about the cards. Mine aren't going anywhere.

It's like when my friend bought stock in Yahoo for $500 a share. He never sold it when it dropped to $20. He just preferred to keep it. Although, my HD3 system has paid for itself 25X over. And it still works like it did the day I bought it.

Brahamnesik 06-28-2013 06:19 PM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia (Post 2055964)
You would prefer to mix Natively with a DSP card based system?

I agree about the cards. Mine aren't going anywhere.

It's like when my friend bought stock in Yahoo for $500 a share. He never sold it when it dropped to $20. He just preferred to keep it. Although, my HD3 system has paid for itself 25X over. And it still works like it did the day I bought it.

To be honest and as stupid as it may seem, besides on aux and tracking situation I barely use TDM plugins anymore on my HD system and rely on native plugins, so yes it wouldn't change my workflow really. What I like in HD is that it's reliable and tracking is easy with no latency issue. I think HD with 192's is still a solid system. I'd miss some cool new features in PT 11 though, especially offline bounces. 64 bits is not a game changer for me.

I don't need the latest and up to date system, just a good and stable tool. In my opinion there's nothing really groundbreaking in Pro Tools since elastic audio but on the other hand I like to be up to date for session compatibility and I almost always consider the new features as cool addition but not essential.

Stukface 06-28-2013 06:29 PM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
So Avid any response to all of these posts?

As you can see there are plenty of loyal long time customers that can't move to PT 11 now. Just think of all the people that don't use the forums that are feeling the same way and are not going to migrate to 11.

A reponse would be nice.

My cousin is a programmer at NASA, he's a bright guy I'm going to ask him to look at the drivers and see if he would be willing to get it to work with PT 11 for me.

At the end of the day no matter what anyone says, it's software anything can be done. If Avids programmers couldn't figure out how to do it then I don't want to invest anymore money into their company. I know how I am if I was a programmer I could figure out how to make it work.

I have been a long time PT fanboy and always talked it up to coworkers that didn't like it. Even got/helped a few coworkers and friends to buy systems. Now I'm starting to question why I have invested over 30k in Digidesign/Avid gear.

Sorry to come off negative, it's not my style, but I feel we got screwed here and would like some sort of answer from Avid, and I'm sure many other loyal customers would too. We are not talking small money here, keep in mind it's not just the cost of the Control 24. It's the cost of upgrading to HDX plus the Contol 24 at the same time. Upgrading to HDX I can understand, because its a whole new technology. But the Control 24? What are our options? The C24 is not an option as avid has already shown that they will stop a product from working. The smart move Avid would have been to release a new Control 24 with the PT 11 release. That way the people that can afford to upgrade both would have an option.

If Avid dosent repond to these recent posts, I fear the company has made a turn in a non customer first direction.

Bill Denton 06-29-2013 09:55 AM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
My cousin is a programmer at NASA, he's a bright guy I'm going to ask him to look at the drivers and see if he would be willing to get it to work with PT 11 for me.

If you do that, Avid might well respond...with an army of lawyers. Reverse engineering is a violation of the license terms...

YYR123 06-29-2013 10:13 AM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Denton (Post 2056244)
My cousin is a programmer at NASA, he's a bright guy I'm going to ask him to look at the drivers and see if he would be willing to get it to work with PT 11 for me.

If you do that, Avid might well respond...with an army of lawyers. Reverse engineering is a violation of the license terms...

Yeah but I bet he could sell that software to some very un-avid-friendly customers who would not say a word

Stukface 06-29-2013 11:19 AM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
If he has the time to do it, it would not be to sell the driver. It would be so I could use the piece of gear that I spent money on. It would also be to show that it was a money move on Avids part and not the fact that it couldn't be done.

No plans on making any kind of money out of it. I just want to continue using my Control 24 with PT 11.

JFreak 06-29-2013 11:35 AM

Re: Control|24 with Pro Tools 11?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pie Hole Sound (Post 2055830)
I remember in the not-too-distant past, an effort was made by an individual in his spare time (and nearly completed) to reverse engineer the Control 24's network-protocol in the hopes of using the Control 24 with other DAW's (read thread, and particularly post 180 here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=38389&page=5)

According to the individual behind the effort, Avid shut him down. My question is, now that the the Control 24 is EOL'd, will such an effort be shut down by Avid should it begin again? If so then, to me this indicates the issue is not a technical one, but a financial one.

With the mod hat off, for the record, this is fascinating. What if Avid released C24 ethernet protocol for public domain :o But they probably won't as the new C24 most probably uses quite similar protocol.

As a personal opinion, I won't regret that C24's are left behind. There have been too many issues with power supplies and broken faders etc. and I myself would not accept one even if someone gave it to me for free (I could however give that piece of mandatory parts replacements to a friend of mine, in case someone really wants to dump one...)

Now with the mod hat on again; I think the new C24's are a lot better made than the old ones. Even though protocol-wise it would not have been big deal to support both (btw. I do not really know) I can clearly see that hardware-wise it is really very much easier to only support the new ones. And yes, even those are getting old.


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