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-   -   Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=408065)

Steve1 01-15-2020 07:43 AM

Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Hi All:
My hardware setup consists of a Mac Pro (Westmere) with a HD Native PCIE board installed and a SSD hard drive, an HD Omni and HD 16 channel IN/OUT. The software is Pro Tools 10 and Mac OS 10.8.6. So I wanted to upgrade both software programs. Leaving the HD 10 software in place (should I have uninstalled it first ?), I upgraded the OS to Mojave and then downloaded the latest version of HD ultimate. The HD Ultimate software appears to have failed to recognize the PCIE Native card, the Omni and the HD I/O as the OMNI and I/O do not appear in the Hardware tab so I downloaded the HD Drivers for HD Ultimate intending to upgrade the firmware in my HD hardware. After restarting for the HD Drivers to load, the Mac Pro never gets past the start up screen. I have a back up hard drive attached so I can return to any version. Any Help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks. Steve.

Southsidemusic 01-15-2020 09:49 AM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
When you say ”latest” PT you mean what version!?

After HD 12.6 you need a Digilink license on the ilok key and if you have a current support plan you will have a Digilink license but if you arent on a support plan you cant just update PT to the Ultimate version. It is a purchased update.

JFreak 01-15-2020 09:56 AM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve1 (Post 2550976)
So I wanted to upgrade both software programs. Leaving the HD 10 software in place

Here is the compatibility information.

It says for PT 10.3.10 (last PT10 version) your operating system needs to be 10.6.7 - 10.8.5
It also says for PT 2019.12 your operating system needs to be 10.13.6 - current

Cannot get both.

If you want PT10 to coexist with a 64-bit PT version, your maximum operating system is 10.8.5 which means the choice of PT version would be 11.0 - 12.4

To be compatible, that is. Anything else and you are experiencing on your own.

Southsidemusic 01-15-2020 12:05 PM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
You could make a partition drive of course with OSX 10.8.5 with HD10 and on the other 10.13.6 with PT Ultimate if you feel you need PT 10 for sessions you have done with RTAS or AAX32 plugins that u haven’t updated to 64Bit yet.

Darryl Ramm 01-15-2020 12:29 PM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve1 (Post 2550976)
Hi All:
My hardware setup consists of a Mac Pro (Westmere) with a HD Native PCIE board installed and a SSD hard drive, an HD Omni and HD 16 channel IN/OUT. The software is Pro Tools 10 and Mac OS 10.8.6. So I wanted to upgrade both software programs. Leaving the HD 10 software in place (should I have uninstalled it first ?), I upgraded the OS to Mojave and then downloaded the latest version of HD ultimate. The HD Ultimate software appears to have failed to recognize the PCIE Native card, the Omni and the HD I/O as the OMNI and I/O do not appear in the Hardware tab so I downloaded the HD Drivers for HD Ultimate intending to upgrade the firmware in my HD hardware. After restarting for the HD Drivers to load, the Mac Pro never gets past the start up screen. I have a back up hard drive attached so I can return to any version. Any Help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks. Steve.

Lots wrong here.

Yes starting with you need to do your own compatibility checking before you start hacking on stuff, if lost ask here before plowing ahead.

And where things are not compatible you need to look at dual-booting. Good advice there already.

But even if things are compatible and you want to upgrade, you should not have done an in-situ upgrade of OS X. Avid recommends against it, lots of folks here keep warning against it. Sure it might work, but it might not. Who knows what mess you have on that system or how mangled stuff is. It is better to tackle major OS upgrades as new installs. Done on a spare disk or partition and reinstalling and test stuff works there before putting your boot on the throat of the current install and shooting it in the head.

But yes!!! you have a recovery plan, that is great. So you can get back your old system, and start on a new partition/disk install for your new OS. And new means new, no cloning and then trying to in-situ upgrade that, no using Apple's migration assassin (assistant) to move apps or drivers over, do full clean installs of all software and drivers.

What exact model/version Mac Pro is this? There are lots of capabilities on the old Cheesegraters, If it was mine and I wanted to be on a more up to date platform, I'd be getting this up to 5.1 ROMS if not there already, installing Mojave and 2019.12. Not sure what SSD you have but I'd be looking a PCIe/NVMe SSD options it's only SATA (especially only SATA II). You might want to look at or ask about those as part of any upgrade (and you might not).

Things like "latest version", "Westmere", and "SSD" are not-helpful. Telling us exact make, model, disk connection type etc. info etc. is a lot more helpful if you are trying to get actually useful advice.

Steve1 01-15-2020 01:00 PM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Thanks for the responses. I'm sorry for my confusing post but the intent was to upgrade from HD PT 10 to HD PT Ultimate - I am done with HD PT 10, I just didn't uninstall it in my haste to upgrade so no need for partitioning. I will get the particular info requested and post it tonight when I get home. Thanks again ! Steve.

Darryl Ramm 01-15-2020 02:06 PM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Be careful What if you need to use old RTAS plugins? Or open very old client session? I would normally expect upgrades like this to be done with two partitions, even if you think you are done with Pro Tools 10, it takes a while for testing to know for sure you are ready to delete the old partition and Pro Tools version.

Steve1 01-16-2020 09:21 AM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Great point Darryl, I might need that version down the road. Info you requested: Mid 2012 Mac Pro, 3.46 GHz, 6 core Intel Zeon; 8 GB memory 1333MHz DDR3 (two open slots for additional 8 GB); OSX 10.8.5; SSD Sata. The latest version of PT Ultimate that I was trying to update to is 2019.12. The version of PT Ultimate I purchased is the Perpetual license. If I understand your comments, I could just get an updated SSD for one of the other disk spots and do a fresh install of Mojave and then do a fresh install of PT 2019.12 and have the computer boot to the new SSD. Can you recommend a particular SSD drive and are there any other upgrades to the computer you would recommend ? Thanks ! Steve.

Darryl Ramm 01-16-2020 01:05 PM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Steve

Thanks for the extra details.

You would likely be dead in the water with 8GB RAM. Sounds like you know that and were planning on a upgrade. Everything uses (and can benefit from) more memory than you are used to. 16GB is the minimum but in reality, with disk cache you may want a lot of memory, and if you do use VIs or have been working around memory constraints in Pro Tools 10 then definitely aim for more. Personally I would max out the memory. You'll be limited to 48 GB max memory, look online like on EveryMac and confirm for yourself or call a dealer like OWC.

You have SATA HDD... but no info on make or model, so I can't guess what performance this has, or wether it's a model that has issues or not. I assume it's connected to the motherboard SATA, which is only SATA II. Likely the SSD is SATA III so you lose some performance there (but will still seem fast, especially for non-sequential IO compared to a HDD). The SATA II disk will do a few hundred MB/sec sequentioal I/O, a PCIe NVMe drive is capable of doing a few GB/sec (!) of sequential I/O and you can get these cards in M.2 format for a few hundred dollars. Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C8Y31G1..._SJmiEbZJZF9HE

You need a PCIe slot to M.2 adapter card to install these M.2 cards into a cheesegrater classic.

The issue with the legacy cheesegraters is the PCIe slots are only PCIe 2 so if you put a modern PCIe 3/NVMe M.2 card in a simple adapter in those slots you are running the cards on a half speed bus, real performance is not halved but the loss may be significant--but still so much faster than SATA that even PCIe 2.0 may seem fantastic.

The high-end way to do this is use a PCIe to M.2 adapter card that is switch based and aggregates pairs of PCIe 2 lanes to a PCIe 3 lane. *the* switch based card that people use is the Syba I/O Crest https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HYZY7P2..._bMmiEb22PC1VZ

There are great threads on DUC and links to external threads about that card you should find. Read those and be aware of people having problems. The boot time concern some people have seems a little silly to me, and can be optimized by removing legacy devices. Still this is likely where I'd start.

Another interesting card is the Sonnet "4x4" this is really aimed at the new Mac Pro Cheesegrater that has PCIe 3, I believe this card does not do PCIe 2 to PCIe 3 link aggregation (if it did it would require you to give up two of the four M.2 slots).

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m...pcie-card.html

But why do you want to add storage? For what? Just a second boot partition? Where are your samples and audio sessions today. One thing to consider is if you move to these NVMe drives you can do things like put your session (and samples) on the boot drive, they are that fast... like if you end up getting say just a new NVMe boot drive for macOS Mojave, just put your sessions there, it will run so much faster than any other drives you have.

What *I* would do is...

Max out the DRAM
Install a metal compatible GPU if you don't have one already (lots of threads on DUC and elsewhere)
Upgrade the Mac ROM to to support Mojave if needed (lots of threads about this online, start by checking what version you have now).
Install NVMe SSD (if you need that for the new install/or just want faster performance). I would likely use the Crest adapter card (after careful review of threads on DUC and links in them)
Do a full installer (e.g. boot off USB flash stick) install of macOS Mojave
Start installing and testing Pro Tools 2019.12 or later... (be aware of video limitations if you work with video).

And maybe do this now: obtain a copy of the Mojave installer. See if you can do that now in the Mac Store, download the full installer (~8GB or so from memory, not the much smaller mini installer). If all you can download is Catalina you'll need to contact Apple support and ask for a favor since your mac can't run Catalina. And as it stands now you will not be able to upgrade your Mac beyond Mojave... who knows if somebody will hack a way to do this in future. So that might affect how much money you want to spend-on this.

Be aware that a modern macOS install will use APFS partitions and when you boot from your old OS X install you will not be able to read those drives. APFS is *great*. The new macOS will be able to read all your old HFS+ drives. Just wanted you to be aware of this, you should be able to easily work around this.

And finally I don't have a legacy Cheesegrater anymore, and I'm a geek who would hack his to do all the above. That may not make sense for you to do. And I don't want you just listening to me. I just wanted to give you a flavor of what's possible and let you go and do more of your own research. If you get stuck ask questions, especially on the relevant threads on DUC. And if you do end up planning to do a lot of changes... it might help to those down in a bullet list of things you are planning to do in order, with details of product make/models and post here and I suspect you'll get experts willing to look over them.

And overall advice... always have a backup/exit plan. Make sure your backup disks are physically unplugged/removed from the Mac Pro while you make changes so you don't accidentally trash them. Plan to make one change at a time, and as much as possible test stuff works at each step. Start on the simpler stuff, like say adding RAM, then a GPU, then flashing the ROM if needed, etc.. And if you really don't need/want to do any of these upgrades... don't. Work out what you really want to end up with. (Again for *me* that would be Mojave with Pro Tools 2019.12 ... and some form of NVMe SSD... but that traps you into lots of upgrades).

Steve1 01-17-2020 01:20 PM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Hi Darryl: I will implement your suggestions and thank you for them. A couple of questions. The Crest I/O accepts dual M.1s - do I need two or will just one work ? You say that the Crest I/O will trap me into more upgrades - are there more then what is mentioned in your post ? My music is on a separate disk that is detached during the upgrade process and also was backed up with time machine. Thanks again Darryl ! Steve.

Steve1 01-21-2020 04:47 AM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Hi Darryl: I installed the Syba Crest I/O with the M.2s per your suggestion but the Mac Pro fails to see it - any suggestions ?

K Roche 01-21-2020 06:20 AM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve1 (Post 2551680)
Hi Darryl: I installed the Syba Crest I/O with the M.2s per your suggestion but the Mac Pro fails to see it - any suggestions ?

I can't remember for sure but I think the first time I booted my Mac with the Crest adaptor and dual SSD's the icons did not show on my desk top. So I think I had to do something like open disk utility and find and click on them and make sure each one was formatted correctly ???



Your posts are still a bit vague. If you look at my sig line system list you will see that I am running a very similar system (albeit) a Mid 2010 Westmere 6 Core.

I don't know what Graphics Card came with your machine but to run Mojave it has to be "Metal" capable
So quickly
You have a Metal capable Graphics Yes ?
And you are booting with Mojave Yes ?
You installed the HD drivers before installing PTHDN 2019.12 Yes ?

Also
Mojave introduced a new protocol and you have to go into System preferences and select Pro Tools to access the microphone ??? don't ask me why
Go to : System Preferences > Security and Privacy > Privacy > Microphone and enable Pro Tools.


https://i.imgur.com/AoETSsB.png

Steve1 01-21-2020 10:21 AM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Hi: Yes I have a metal graphics card but I did not boot from Mojave. I will try that and report back before downloading the drivers for the PT Ultimate. Thank you for your response. Steve.

Darryl Ramm 01-21-2020 11:11 AM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve1 (Post 2551711)
Hi: Yes I have a metal graphics card but I did not boot from Mojave. I will try that and report back before downloading the drivers for the PT Ultimate. Thank you for your response. Steve.

You need to provide folks lot more info with posts here. Like what exact OS were you booting? What exact version bootrom do you have?

Steve1 01-28-2020 07:44 AM

Re: Download of HD Ultimate Drivers prevents Mac Pro from rebooting
 
Hi All: I am happy to report that I have successfully downloaded PT HD Ultimate 2019.12 and am back up and running. As soon as I downloaded Mojave 10.14.6, the system recognized the new Samsung SSD and I was able to boot from that disk leaving the original SSD disk with Pro Tools 10 in place for future reference if necessary. I did a clean install of PT HD Ultimate on the new SSD drive by loading the drivers first and the program second. The drivers updated the AVID hardware I have and was instantly recognized in PT. YEAH ! Thank you Darryl for the SSD suggestions and K. Roche for reminding me I had to boot from Mojave to get the computer to recognize the new Samsung SSD drives and to download the PT HD Drivers FIRST before installing the program. You guys are the best !

Steve.
__________________
Mac Pro Mid 2012 3.46 Ghz 6 Core Intel Zeon 32 GB Ram; Samsung SSD 970 Pro NVMe M.2 (1 TB) (x2); Syba I/O Crest dual m.2 NVMe Ports to PCIe 3.0 X 16; Nvidia GT 640 Graphics Card; Mac OS Mojave 10.14.6; Avid Omni, Avid I/O 16, Avid HD Native Card; Avid PT HD 2019.12.


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