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-   -   Workflow for drums (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=393187)

appledude 08-20-2017 09:07 AM

Workflow for drums
 
Normally, i record eight tracks for drums. Kik, snare, hat, (3) toms and overheads. I do mix in the box. I do my usual plugins in for each channel such as VCC, tape, eq some compression. I do a send on each channal to a aux bus for reverb (i do eq and bus compression and use a reverb plate with space). Everything goes to the master mix (each channel and mix bus). My kit is a DW with Zildgen custom A cymbals.

My question is what do others do - do you send all channels to a mix bus for a stereo mix that goes to the master fader? What are your favorite eq plugs on which drum? do you compressor all channels (on the way in or plugs)? Any thing special such as a reverse on the snare or?

EGS 08-20-2017 09:59 AM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
Step 1: get this:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...RoC-A8QAvD_BwE

You're welcome !!!:cool:

appledude 08-20-2017 11:43 AM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
Got one for Christmas. Its interesting to say the least. My toms sound great. I tuned both heads the same for max resonance. My black beauty I seemed to tune too low. My drummer friend tuned it higher without using the tunebot. He is very experienced at drum tuning. It sounds very good. I went from an Aquarian super kick II to a remo power stroke 3 on his advice. It sounds more natural now. I did like the Superkick though, it sounded like a shot gun.

albee1952 08-20-2017 07:02 PM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
With acoustic drums, the biggest step is likely to be phase and time alignment of audio between the tracks. The best way to achieve this is worthy of way more discussion than space here allows for, so I suggest some research into it, and also check out Sound Radix plugin called AutoAlign(and watch some videos on it as its not the most intuitive process).

For me, I hate mixing drums without Waves JJP Signature drum plugin, but I never track with it due to plugin latency. For tracking, the Avid Channel Strip plugin goes a long way, as does a great kit with great microphones and preamps(another long discussion:rolleyes:). I use sends on all the "shell" tracks to feed a stereo AUX track for drum bus compression(usually with Cytomic's "The Glue" or Slate's VMR and his red "tube" compressor).

Since I don't have a big room, I fake the room sound with a short room reverb(usually IK Classik Room, but always trying others).

Cymbal tracks will usually get a Pultec EQ for some top-end "air"(Maag EG is the only other EQ that delivers in this department).

albee1952 09-02-2017 02:16 PM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
Since nobody else has jumped in, I will share some stuff I have been experimenting with in the last couple of weeks. This is stuff I am doing AFTER recording, but BEFORE mixing:o
1-since I track a mic and a "subkick" on the bass drum, I set the Edit window to show the Sub-Counter and set it to samples. Using Tab-to-Transient, I measure how many samples of offset between the bass drum mic and subkick, then nudge the mic later to match the subkick(this makes sense with any inner+outer mic technique)
2-repeat this same routine on my 3 snare mics(top 57, top 81 and bottom) and nudge to match the latest of the 3(usually the bottom). If you are wondering why this could ever change, the drummer might nudge or move the mics for tuning or raising the snare up/down, and I am splitting hairs(because we have the tools to do it:o)
3-Repeat for the overheads so that snare hits(in the overheads) are exactly the same(even using a tape measure to position overhead mics, they can still be off by several samples).
Some will nudge everything back to match the overheads. I am not quite sold on that(yet):rolleyes: Doing steps 1>3 tends to tighten up the bass drum and snare(nudging the snare back to the overhead can/should tighten the snare even more). I also run a small mic shield(http://www.guitarcenter.com/Sterling...hone-Shield.gc) to block the hat mic so it gets less snare and the crash that sits closest. This seems to help a lot, and I may put another shield to block the hat bleeding into the snare mics(I know purists are saying that bleed is normal and part of the final sound, but I'm a control freak):-)

cstowell 09-05-2017 11:01 AM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
Yeah its pretty quiet in the drum room. I thank you for your replies. I was still doing testing on your first response before i responded. As for your last response, very interesting. So at the speed of sound at 1,116 feet per sec , 10 feet equates to .009 secs or 395 samples. I would like to think the mics are not ten feet apart but 800 sample for a room mic 20 feet from the kit or .02 seconds. Can we really distinguish the difference in tonal quality. Will be like analog gear and or ears will like it better because of spatial irregularties our ears have been trained to listening to recorded in the past. maybe , my hats is off too you. Not sure i have that much time in the day. I do agree of moving everyting back to the closet mic but you can't move the mic bleed. More to ponder. I did route all drums to a an aux buss and use bus comp and eq with reverb versus just using a send to a reverb buss and mixing in. I think i like the send to a reverb buss but still experimenting.

AlexLakis 09-05-2017 12:16 PM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
What genre of music are you doing here? What sound are you going for? The answer to these questions will dictate almost every choice you make and which of the great suggestions listed here you should use (and beyond!)

DonaldM 09-10-2017 03:36 PM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by albee1952 (Post 2447894)
Since nobody else has jumped in, I will share some stuff I have been experimenting with in the last couple of weeks. This is stuff I am doing AFTER recording, but BEFORE mixing:o
1-since I track a mic and a "subkick" on the bass drum, I set the Edit window to show the Sub-Counter and set it to samples. Using Tab-to-Transient, I measure how many samples of offset between the bass drum mic and subkick, then nudge the mic later to match the subkick(this makes sense with any inner+outer mic technique)
2-repeat this same routine on my 3 snare mics(top 57, top 81 and bottom) and nudge to match the latest of the 3(usually the bottom). If you are wondering why this could ever change, the drummer might nudge or move the mics for tuning or raising the snare up/down, and I am splitting hairs(because we have the tools to do it:o)
3-Repeat for the overheads so that snare hits(in the overheads) are exactly the same(even using a tape measure to position overhead mics, they can still be off by several samples).
Some will nudge everything back to match the overheads. I am not quite sold on that(yet):rolleyes: Doing steps 1>3 tends to tighten up the bass drum and snare(nudging the snare back to the overhead can/should tighten the snare even more). I also run a small mic shield(http://www.guitarcenter.com/Sterling...hone-Shield.gc) to block the hat mic so it gets less snare and the crash that sits closest. This seems to help a lot, and I may put another shield to block the hat bleeding into the snare mics(I know purists are saying that bleed is normal and part of the final sound, but I'm a control freak):-)

Dave - I'm curious as to why you want to nudge all the tracks to perfect alignment. I always thought that the reason you blend in the overheads and room mics was to get that little bit of ambience the slight delay provides. Doesn't syncing them all up defeat that?

DonaldM 09-10-2017 03:48 PM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by albee1952 (Post 2445884)

For me, I hate mixing drums without Waves JJP Signature drum plugin, but I never track with it due to plugin latency. .

Of all the "secret sauce" plugins out there, I like the JJP series the best. I've used the vocals, bass and guitar one, and just love how they enrich the sounds. But, I hadn't yet gotten (is that a word?) the drum one. Just did for a whopping $29 US. A steal!

albee1952 09-11-2017 08:51 AM

Re: Workflow for drums
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DonaldM (Post 2449030)
Dave - I'm curious as to why you want to nudge all the tracks to perfect alignment. I always thought that the reason you blend in the overheads and room mics was to get that little bit of ambience the slight delay provides. Doesn't syncing them all up defeat that?

I have had much the same thought process but am also always looking for ways to improve. My method is more of a compromise where it only aligns mics for their particular main signal(IOW, the 3 snare mics align, but I don't move them to any other drum). Some tutorials show timing EVERYTHING out to one "master"(which I also have experimented with). I was onto that routine, but it got a little whacky because I had built the time offset into the session(with the Time adjuster plugin) and it sounded good, and was fine for tracking(not enough delay to throw off a player), but as soon as the drummer would raise/lower the snare or hat, it would throw things off again:eek: I'm trying to zero in on making the absolute best recordings I can(aren't we all:o). Re ambience, I don't think its time alignment(or misalignment) that gives that. That's a function of the room, acoustics and how much you rely on the overheads in the overall mix. Grab the JJP Drum plugin at $29:D I spent an entire day trying to NOT need that plugin(was trying to dump Waves) and in the end, I gave up:p


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