Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

hi all

im in need of some help setting up a separate headphone mix on the control 24. not sure if im being a dummy or just doing something wrong.

i have patched out of the 192 (outputs 7+8) into AUX in on the control 24. and out of AUX out to the headphone amp. now i create in pro tools, as usual, sends on each channel for a separate headphone mix. (like sends A or B) and i set them prefader. so i can have a separate mix for the headphones and the control room. (and so the artist wont hear me mute something while we are tracking or something) then i create 2 master faders. one for the control room. and one for the headphone send. (1+2 for the control room, and 7+8 for the headphone send) . now this signal path usually works fine in other setups (like using an analog console or mackie hui...or even just straight outta pro tools to the headphone amp) but when i have it running into the control 24, i hear NOTHING when the "monitor to aux" switch is not pressed. and i hear the main mix when i press the monitor to aux switch. which i do not want cuase i dont want the artist to hear the main mix, but his own....

what am i doing wrong??

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

Well, two things come to mind if I haven't missed something and without having the block diagram in front of me: (1) Check the routing of the output of your Master Fader for the headphone cue mix and (2) your Aux. Inputs on the C24 are not working. Someone mentioned once that when their talkback circuit began not working that they did a reset on the C24 and that fixed it. I don't know, but maybe that trick would work for the Aux. Inputs if they are indeed not letting signal into the C24.

Just trying to help so don't shoot me if these ideas don't work.

Jeff

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

Hi,

The aux in and the aux outputs are NOT associated, they are independant stereo in to monitor section and stereo out from monitor sectiion!

Chris

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

hi

so what should i do then?

i thought in the manual it says that is how it should work. hmmmmm.. i thought the aux in and aux out would work with or without the monitor to aux button pressed. cause it doesnt work when the monitor to aux button isnt lit. do i need to do something else? could someone please explain to me how the routing should go and what buttons i should have pressed then to have a separate headphone mix on the control 24. im usually not this bad with signal flow. i just think the C 24 is getting the best of me right now..

joe

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

Hi,

It sounds like you have a similar set-up to mine. The only difference is that I don't set up a master fader for my headphone send. I set up a pre-fader send for each track and route that to analog outputs 7&8 on the 192 i/o. Those outputs come back into the aux ins on the C24 and that goes to the headphone amp. I'll try a master fader for that setup and see what happens, then I'll check back here.

You know, I've had many analog boards over the years. It seems that they were all much easier to deal with in many ways. I hated mixing with a mouse, though. So I bought the C24 and I'm figuring it out a little more each day.

Joe

check this out for a few pics of my studio:

www.freewebs.com/highpointrecording

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

Hi Jeff,

That was ptobably me that you read that about, but ir was kind of a different problem. I think in this case, the cue mix may not be working because he is using Master faders to route the audio. Now, I also could be wrong, but If this gentleman uses Stereo Aux faders, he gets an input, so I think that he should use an Aux chqnnel instead, Now he should create a send for each channel that has audio on it's channel going out, and send it out the send as Bus 3-4 (PRE FADER), them create the stereo Aux channel and set it's input as bus 3-4, then go to this Stereo Aux channel and set the output as I/O 3-4. The last step is to patch the I/O 3-4 to channel 2 of the headphone amp and you know have mix number 2. NOW, for mix three, let's go back to his setup and create another set of sends on each channel thatl carries audio signals out and set the bus as PRE FADER and create a bus path 5-6. NOW, set up another stereo aux fader. Set it's input to bus 5-6 and it's output to I/O 5-6. Now, patch the 5-6 output from the hew Aux fader ro headphone Amp input 3 and there is phone three, Just make sure that the Aux channels being used are set as a starter at zero DB. You can control the overall output of these aux faders there or the headphone amp.

Remember to use the flip button and pick each each send you want to control now by using the faders in flip mode to control the independant channel levels for the new cue mixes, Do this for each send and you can control them easily from the C-24 faders.

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

Hi Jeff,

That was ptobably me that you read that about, but ir was kind of a different problem. I think in this case, the cue mix may not be working because he is using Master faders to route the audio. Now, I also could be wrong, but If this gentleman uses Stereo Aux faders, he gets an input, so I think that he should use an Aux chqnnel instead, Now he should create a send for each channel that has audio on it's channel going out, and send it out the send as Bus 3-4 (PRE FADER), them create the stereo Aux channel and set it's input as bus 3-4, then go to this Stereo Aux channel and set the output as I/O 3-4. The last step is to patch the I/O 3-4 to channel 2 of the headphone amp and you know have mix number 2. NOW, for mix three, let's go back to his setup and create another set of sends on each channel thatl carries audio signals out and set the bus as PRE FADER and create a bus path 5-6. NOW, set up another stereo aux fader. Set it's input to bus 5-6 and it's output to I/O 5-6. Now, patch the 5-6 output from the hew Aux fader ro headphone Amp input 3 and there is phone three, Just make sure that the Aux channels being used are set as a starter at zero DB. You can control the overall output of these aux faders there or the headphone amp.

Remember to use the flip button and pick each each send you want to control now by using the faders in flip mode to control the independant channel levels for the new cue mixes, Do this for each send and you can control them easily from the C-24 faders.

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

I went through this a while back wanting to be able to have an independent control room mix so I could solo/ mute without throwing off the musician recording. I had lots of suggestions to go pre-fader, aux sends, etc, but I never had any success. The solo/mute buttons affect all feeds. Digi never responded to my customer service e-mail. I bought the C|24 from Sweetwater, whose technical department finally replied to me telling me that it wasn't doable. I was told that the C|24 does not function the same as an analog board.

...I wished I would have known that before I bought it.

but aside from that annoyance... not to mention all the other functions/switches that don't seem to do anything..... <sigh>

I be thrilled if someone figured out a way to do this

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

I think I have solved it!!! I have had the same problems as well and this past weekend was a disaster of epic proportions, causing me to go to any length to figure this out. Here's how I am going to do it:

ALL should be set to PRE-FADER and unity gain, season to taste.

Everything being recorded (except for Aux tracks) is being sent to, say Bus1-2 to be the main mix but you must do every drum track and NOT the Drum Subgroup, (if you use one)this just doubles the signal and/or creates confusion.

Next setup just the drums (again no aux stuff) to go to Bus 3

Bass to Bus 4

Gtr to Bus 5

Vox to Bus 6

Now create 1 stereo Aux in and 4 mono aux ins, with their inputs as Bus 1-2, 3, 4, 5, 6 respectively and their outputs to (for my system anyway) 96I/O output 3-4, 5, 6, 7, 8 respectively.
My Output 3-4 goes to the Control 24's Aux Input (to pickup the talkback mic), then goes to the headpone system main in and 5-8 go straight to the headphone system.

THIS IS THE KEY!!! You have to SOLO SAFE (or whatever its called) the headphone aux-in tracks. You do it by holding Ctrl (Windows) and clicking the solo button. It should be greyed out. Now when you solo something, you aren't muting the aux ins and they flow right to the headphone system without interruption.

Does this make sense?? It should work for one and all, let me know what you all think and if need be I can save a template.

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

this is great, District !!!
I was just wondering how to solve the talkback problem, cause it uses the aux out & not the regular outs...
I'm gonna try U'r solution, I thought that was it, but would certainly never find the solo safe thing...

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

HI

REALLY INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING REGARDS H/PHONE MIX.


IS THERE ANY CHANCE OF SENDING ME A TEMPLATE?

REGARDS

CHRIS

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

District,

First, I'm assuming you are monitoring in the Control Room through PT1&2 on the Control Room Monitor Section of the C24.

You shouldn't have to do all the routing through busses to make that work. The main stereo cue mix can be assigned to an output interface on all the tracks (not any subgroup auxes) from Send A. They all need to be set PRE-FADER. If your C24 has Protools Outputs 3&4, and 5&6 wired up to the normal location on the monitor section, you can pick one of these pairs - so that you can listen to what your separate cue mix sounds like through your speakers. You don't need a master fader or an aux return at all. The Aux knob on the C24 (with Monitor to Aux OFF!) can be used as an overall master cue level control. The pre-fader level sends of Send A will be unaffected by level, solo, or mute switches that happen on the main mix. You then only nee to hit FLIP on the C24 (which defaults to Send A) to have the cue mix at your fingertips. Hit PT3&4 on the Control Room Montor Section, and you're now LISTENING to the cue mix as well.

For the other channels on your headphone system beyond its stereo input, go to each track and set up a send on Assignment B that is PRE-FADER and set to Unity Gain (0.0). The output of this individual track send should go to an output that's patched to the cue system. For example, your Bass track would have Send B set pre-fader and at 0.0, being sent to Output 4, which is then patched to a channel on the headphone system. If you want multiple tracks (like the Drums) to go to a single headphone system channel, then you'll need to adjust the multiple faders down some so as not to overload the headphone system channel.



ChrisL - I have to agree with Shawn, the Caps Lock is pretty annoying reading.

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

Hey

Official apology for the 'Caps Lock' thing..

Just a bad habit...

ChrisL

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

hi all

thanks for all your help thus far


but this problem still prevails. i have the sends on each channel (send A) for the headphone mix setup as PRE FADER. so it wont be affected by volume/mute changes in the control room. control room output is your default PT 1-2 output. im using 7-8 PT output for the headphones. (cause i think 3-4 is for Center and Surround and 5-6 is Ls - Rs) we have surround setup in one room. and the other 2 rooms dont have the surround setup. all rooms have the same issue with the AUX knob. now if i just have the outputs 7-8 going straight into the headphone amp, (and bypass the AUX in and AUX out of the control 24) all works fine. but if i have it run into AUX IN on the control 24, it doesnt work. unless i press the AUX to MONITOR button, then it works. but it sends a copy of the main output signal to the headphone amp. so if i mute or fade something, the artist hears it. i thought that if the button isnt pressed, the AUX knob would function as an overall gain knob feeding the 7-8 signal going to the headphone amp? i think it has to do something with that knob??? if have a master fader or not in pro tools, that would still be independent of the signal of the headphone mix. it would just be a master fader in pro tools that controls the signal leaving the pro tools interface. i know about the FLIP switch and controlling the sends that way on the control 24. that isnt the issue.

i just want this BIG MOUSE to work like it should...unless im completely stupid and im doing something work (which is probably the case) . i read the manual, and the way i interpret it, is that the AUX knob should control the signal going into it even when the MONITOR TO AUX button isnt pressed.

joe

Re: Control 24 headphone cue mix help!!
 

Jammanis,

Its starting to sound like there's some other problem at issue here.

It sounds like your signal flow out of Protools is good (if you can patch 7/8 straight to the phones and hear the cue mix). Is it possible that where you're patching into the C24 Aux Inputs L/R is not connected correctly? The chances of all three C24s in your three rooms being broken is pretty small. But maybe something was wired wrong in the install. Try plugging directly into the back of the C24 at the Aux Input with the output of 7/8. They need to be balanced 1/4" connectors. You probably know all this stuff already, I'm just trying to cover the basics.

If you're not working on a surround project, you can still use 3/4 or 5/6 for the cues; you just need to switch the C24 to Stereo Mode at the Monitor Section. In addition to being able to hear you cue mix by selecting it as 3/4 or 5/6, you can also see metering of those outputs on the C24.