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-   -   Bouncing tracks quality loss. (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=283094)

Kemo3ce 09-28-2010 07:06 PM

Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
Ok I am new to pro tools and I have a question when u r done mixing everything how do u export? Bouncing tracks or another format, I recorded in 24 bit. 96 kHz and now when I bounced to 1 track stereo 16 bit 44.1 I lost highs and gained some bass any reason y?

Eric Seaberg 09-29-2010 08:47 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
I prefer to record back into the session INSTEAD of bouncing out. This gives you the opportunity to tweak the mix even more as you go, if you want, and if you hear something you don't like you can stop, fix it, and punch back in, consolidating the file when you're done. When you're happy with it, then you EXPORT THE REGION as a new file at the sample rate and bit depth you prefer.

To do this requires some real thinking on your part, as you setup the mix-desk using BUSSES which are then routed to your record track, with the record track outputs feeding your monitors.

This gives you lots of options as well, such as putting the rhythm section on a stereo buss (with dynamics if you wish), putting the vocals on a stereo buss (dynamics, etc.), guitars on one and keys on one, etc., etc., etc. All of the buss outputs then feed a final stereo buss (with dynamics if you wish) which feeds your mixdown track.

We've been doing all of our 'bouncing' like this since early 2004 and it works MUCH better than the typical 'bounce' does.

clausiii 09-29-2010 10:05 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemo3ce (Post 1674697)
Ok I am new to pro tools and I have a question when u r done mixing everything how do u export? Bouncing tracks or another format, I recorded in 24 bit. 96 kHz and now when I bounced to 1 track stereo 16 bit 44.1 I lost highs and gained some bass any reason y?

Bounced should not sound bad, there is something wrong!
Is your Master clipping? Is your sound device in sync? Is/was it in sync when you listened to your bounced audio?

How did you listen to your bounced track? iTunes or similar? Does your audition application have any EQs or Compression on (iTunes has something like this!)

Dism 09-29-2010 10:17 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemo3ce (Post 1674697)
Ok I am new to pro tools and I have a question when u r done mixing everything how do u export? Bouncing tracks or another format, I recorded in 24 bit. 96 kHz and now when I bounced to 1 track stereo 16 bit 44.1 I lost highs and gained some bass any reason y?

Are you using dither? Otherwise, what you are experiencing is truncation.

Kemo3ce 09-30-2010 02:48 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
Hmm... Dither? I'm not to sure a out what that means but I'm just bouncing it down and I listened to it on cool edit pro I moved the huge wav file to my pc to listen to it over there. And hey that mixing back in to the session sounds like a real good idea... It should enhance the mix alot more too since your focusing on groups mixes after the individual mixes that's a very good idea. Thanks guys well I'm gonna keep fiddling with it and see what comes out I don't know y it sounds like that, maybe it's cool edit.

Kemo3ce 09-30-2010 02:55 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
Oh everything thing was in sync, if it wasn't would that cause something like this to happen?

Dism 09-30-2010 07:50 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither

There are plenty of resources out there defining dither.

I would suggest learning about it if you are going to mix in a higher resolution than what you bounce down to.

Kemo3ce 09-30-2010 09:33 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
Ok I will thanks for the input. I really appreciate it.

Kemo3ce 09-30-2010 09:43 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
I have another question, if u lose alot of fedelity going down to 16 bit then what's the point in recording in pro tools hd at 24 bit 192 kHz? If in the end ur loosing alot of the sound quality that u want? Sorry guys I'm new.

Dism 09-30-2010 09:58 AM

Re: Bouncing tracks quality loss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemo3ce (Post 1675338)
I have another question, if u lose alot of fedelity going down to 16 bit then what's the point in recording in pro tools hd at 24 bit 192 kHz? If in the end ur loosing alot of the sound quality that u want? Sorry guys I'm new.

You don't really lose all that much fidelity in going from a higher samplerate to a lower one. In fact, most people wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between 192k and 96k, or even 44.1k for that matter. Not only that, but the disk space required for 192k wave files is borderline ridiculous.

Where you lose quality is in the bounce. Hence why dither is important. When you bounce from a higher bit depth/sample rate, there is data and detail being lost. Without dither, this lost detail becomes apparent, because you end up with aliasing and quantization error. Think of when you reduce a high quality image to a lower one. Without compensation, you end up with a grainy, pixelated looking image. Most photo-manipulation software will automatically compensate for this by applying dither. Dither is essentially "noise" that fills in the lost information and smooths out the image. The same goes for audio.

The next time you bounce a file from 96/24 to 44.1/16, put an instance of POWrdither on the master fader and see if there's a difference.


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