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Namaste 05-07-2003 07:17 PM

micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
what should i expect to pay for enough mics and cables to mic a drummer with a normal sized trap set well? and i guess i will need pres to have enough inputs. what pres would you recommend and at what cost?

thanks a lot on advice as i upgrade the studio. . .

namaste

TAPKAE 05-07-2003 07:35 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
I am getting some damned hip sounds out of a Digimax 96, a Sennheiser 421 in the kick and a pair of NT5s overhead. I use other stuff (NT1 and 57s, two each) too, but could mix it out and still have a fine tone. Cost of the 421 and NT5s? Less than $550 for the three. Cables? Maybe another $60. The Digimax would sort of be the wildcard. Thats almost $1200.

Don't let anyone tell you you can't get a good tone out of 3 mics.

where02190 05-07-2003 07:59 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
Preamps figure if you go lightpipe (Octapre, my choice, or digimax, etc) you'll spend about $1400 with cabling if you want to monitor analog.

Mics can run anywhere from $700(a beta 52 or D112, a couple oktavia condensors and a few 57's) to tens of thousands.

cables, about $20 each.
Stands, if you use low budget ones, $250.

So figure $2400 with some buffer. don't forget you need a snake to get them mics from the drum room to your control room, and headphones for the drummer to monitor with.

Hope this is helpful.

Namaste 05-07-2003 08:37 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
very. thanks.

Chris Coleman 05-07-2003 08:57 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TAPKAE:
Don't let anyone tell you you can't get a good tone out of 3 mics.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most pros will tell you that's all you need.

cuttooth 05-07-2003 09:45 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
Quote:

Most pros will tell you that's all you need.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sez who? Sure, lotsa guys use 3 (or two), but who does "most pros" refer to?

sdemott 05-08-2003 10:39 AM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
I have not used the NT5s yet, so I can't comment on that. I hope to pick up a pair in September.

For overheads I use 2 AT4050s ($600 each). A Senny 421 ($300) on the kick and a 57 ($80) on the snare. I can usually get everything I need from that set-up. Sometimes I might use a condenser on the snare (km184 ($550)) for a brighter "snap" & maybe mic the toms, but only when the drummer can't seem to balance himself.

As far as pres go. I use a mackie 1402 ($500) for drums.

robertallen1977 05-08-2003 11:50 AM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
There are thousands of combos. There are no RIGHT and WRONG...only what sounds the best for a particular song.

I've heard drums that sound like they were mic'd with 2 rooms (Radiohead's High and Dry)

I've seen great drum sounds that were on all SM57's.

If you're on a budget I'd say go for the SM57 Mic package and if you want a better sound invest in Mic modeler by Antares. I LOVE their plugins. The new TUBE is nice too.

Here's what I use for drums, and quite honestly I've had best results. The only thing is I don't have a great room for them. I think the sound of the room is the key. i have to "emulate" the room with a verb. I don't like using verb effects on drums, just EQ and compression. Less is more IMO. I could be wrong.

OverHeads - Shure SM81's
Kick - AKG D112
Snare - Audix D1 (Top and Bottom)
Toms - Audix D2
Floor Tom - Audix D4

I like Audix Mic's much more. I usually don't use much mix on the Snare mic's...I let the OverHeads define the sound for me. I just use the other mic's that are actually clamped to the kit for dynamics.

These are just my opinions. my techniques may not be the RIGHT or PROFESSIONAL way to do things. But they work for me.

The only thing i KNOW I'm completely right about is that the AKG D112 is the perfect kick mic. Ha ha.

Robert Allen
SonicWorx - Detroit, MI

robertallen1977 05-08-2003 11:54 AM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
DOH I forgot to answer the question.

AKG D112 - $300.00
Audix D's - $100.00 ea.
Shure SM81 - $300.00 ea.
Cables - 160.00
PreSonus Digimax LT or any other multiple mic pre - 800.00 but I heard they went down in price.
Optical Cable to connect to the 001/002 - 30.00 or less

These are just round figures. I think they are lower..esp the D112.

Chaasm71 05-08-2003 08:29 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
I was going through this trial around 3 weeks ago (using my new Digi001 to record my band). Because I needed to record drums somehow, here's what I bought and used:

NT5 pair for drum overheads (cost: $630CAD)
AT4050 for HiHat (cost: can't remember...sdemott says $600USD)
AKD D112 for kick (cost: I think they are around $250CAD)
SM57 on snare top (cost: $130CAD)
SM58 on snare bottom (cost: ?)

I was really happy with the sound of everything except the snare top, and that may just be that the snare drum itself had a kind of hollow, ringing sound. Maybe it was tuned a little tight? However, the underside got a nice crack to it from the snare. And the overheads seemed to do alright on their own.

I bought an Octopre for additional pre's. I'm quite pleased with the Octopre. Note, there are handy phase reverese switches on channels 1 and 2 which are useful for checking for phase cancelation between your overhead mics.

Hope my limited experience is helpful.

Charlie.

Namaste 05-08-2003 08:43 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
you guys rock. thanks for an armful of wisdom.

i really appreciate all this info.

namaste [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

TAPKAE 05-08-2003 09:07 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
"I was really happy with the sound of everything except the snare top, and that may just be that the snare drum itself had a kind of hollow, ringing sound. Maybe it was tuned a little tight? However, the underside got a nice crack to it from the snare. And the overheads seemed to do alright on their own."

That's why I say, the 3 mics are what you need to carry the drum sound. In my case, I rely on the overheads alone to be the snare mic and the "compressor" of the the entire kit. I do use the other 4 mics I put up, but all the tone and balance is carried by the overheads. The kick mic is there to fill in the bottom. My overhead snare sound is as good as I could want, and significantly more appealing than the close up mic which doesn't hear the drum the way a listener does. Even a bad room and some mics that aren't crammed onto the drums can be better for micing with overheads. I have a far from ideal drywall box of a room that somehow works out well enough, and the overheads are the heroes of the drum mix.

where02190 05-08-2003 11:03 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
I A/B'd the NT4 and NT5 to several of my fav combinations, including the Shure VP88, 414's etc, and found it to ber pretty useless. It's harsh, brittle sounding highs were painful, and it's lack of real lows made getting a realistic kit sound impossible. I at first thought the mic was faulty, and returned it for another, only to get the same results.

IMHO, don't waste your money on one.

Hope this is helpful.

captain54 05-09-2003 12:32 AM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TAPKAE:
I am getting some damned hip sounds out of a Digimax 96, a Sennheiser 421 in the kick and a pair of NT5s overhead. Don't let anyone tell you you can't get a good tone out of 3 mics.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you have an mp3 of anything recording with this micing setup??? its hard to believe that a $300 overhead mic combo would do the job, so I'd be interested hear the results, if at all possible...

also, how are you positioning your nt5's ? are you using the Y-adaptor on one boom or are you postioning them around the kit on separate booms??

TAPKAE 05-09-2003 02:18 AM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
Well, here is something I have. Its not my playing, nor is it a complete and rehearsed band. It has no mix compression or EQ on it, and there are 3 mics and all drum faders are at the same level as each other. I did employ the enhance switch on the Digimax, and use the limiters on all the channels to some degree. Again, no mix tricks here, all faders up. And its an uncompressed file, so no funny business on the way to the 'net.
http://hogheavenmedia.com/mix.wav

This other one is not really ideal, but WTF. Different drummer with me on bass, and he put a sock across part of the snare drum, which is the same as before. The preamp is the Octopre, with no limiting or EQ at all anywhere, and all faders up for the drums. The thing about this recording, aside from the sock on the drum, is that the drummer is a lefty playing on my righty kit, and he moves a lot of stuff around. This recording is only a 3 piece kit and two cymbals after he makes his hybrid adjustments. I didn't have time to move mics and this is more or less a jam so the mics are facing a drumset in a semiarbitary manner. Its sort of a joke, really.
http://hogheavenmedia.com/sample.wav

Mics can be seen here:
http://www.hogheavenmedia.com/studio_images.html They sort of face slightly backward from a point more or less centered over the kick and toms, but they dont aim directly at cymbals, because I prefer to get the entire kit in the overheads.

Chaasm71 05-09-2003 03:34 PM

Re: micing a drummer - mics to use, cost of mics and cables
 
Thanks for the suggestions on the overheads, TAPKAE. Even in the overheads, the snare sounds kinda dead (both overheads were pointing towards the snare). However, I think (and the drummer agrees), the snare itself doesn't really have that sharp a tone. So, maybe the mic is just telling me what's there to begin with! Note, although I used 5 mics on the kit, I completely agree that the overheads are supplying the lion's share of the drum sounds. The kick, snare and HH mics are just there to be able to fiddle with the levels or put a bit of reverb, eq or compression on the individual instruments during mixdown.

Charlie.


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