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-   -   HDX Latency (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=352076)

PhilSchroeder 03-09-2014 09:44 AM

HDX Latency
 
Now there's two words that shouldn't appear together...

Anyone else experiencing latency issues when monitoring in record mode? I'm finding them once the track counts get up past 16, or the voice counts pass 25. This is HDX (one card), Avid HD, DigiPRE, and nothing else that's particularly special. You can see my specs below.

It seems to be triggered by HDX-able plugs, for example the Softube Grand Channel. It's a pretty annoying little delay, probably 3 or 4 frames. (Not sure what the ms correlation would be.)

I never had any kind of problem like this with TDM. Seems very strange, and I'm not so happy about it, either!

Drew Mazurek 03-09-2014 09:52 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilSchroeder (Post 2139119)
Now there's two words that shouldn't appear together...

Anyone else experiencing latency issues when monitoring in record mode? I'm finding them once the track counts get up past 16, or the voice counts pass 25. This is HDX (one card), Avid HD, DigiPRE, and nothing else that's particularly special. You can see my specs below.

It seems to be triggered by HDX-able plugs, for example the Softube Grand Channel. It's a pretty annoying little delay, probably 3 or 4 frames. (Not sure what the ms correlation would be.)

I never had any kind of problem like this with TDM. Seems very strange, and I'm not so happy about it, either!

You're positive there are no native plugs in the session, on auxes, or master faders?

Have you done any "double assigning"? (holding down control while clicking to assign an output to 2 places)

PhilSchroeder 03-09-2014 10:33 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Nope. Setup couldn't be more straight ahead. Now 30 minutes down the road, I'm tracking BGVox on some existing tracks with no plugs, and the latency is back. Once I recycle the record switch on the track, it goes away until I start playing again. It doesn't appear to be recording late (I clapped to check that) but the monitoring is really annoying. Working alone today to suss this out, have singers in on Tuesday. :eek:

PhilSchroeder 03-09-2014 10:34 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Wait, hold on. Yes there are Native plugs in the session. Not on the tracks in question but in the session. Why should that matter? It's supposed to run both, right?

Drew Mazurek 03-09-2014 01:32 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilSchroeder (Post 2139130)
Wait, hold on. Yes there are Native plugs in the session. Not on the tracks in question but in the session. Why should that matter? It's supposed to run both, right?

Yes, but if they're on Aux or Master Faders, they cause the whole thing to be delayed.

Hanswurstlsepp 03-09-2014 01:53 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek (Post 2139171)
Yes, but if they're on Aux or Master Faders, they cause the whole thing to be delayed.

Exactly !

Beside that, I'm running into a "situation" once a while where the "talent" is telling me "something's wrong - there's a delay".
My workaround for that is to disable ADC and enable it again.
Helps in about 70% of all cases.
If it won't help, save session, close session and reload.
...and if that won't help, quit PT completely and restart it.

Awesome:o

PhilSchroeder 03-10-2014 09:19 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Drew, maybe you know something I don't, but are you saying that a native plug in on an Aux track anywhere in PT can cause delay on the record track that isn't at all related to that native plug? How can that be? And we're not talking about general, garden variety, subliminal delay, we're talking "screw-you-up," "can't work with this" delay. I don't use MSTR faders, BTW.

I do use AUX tracks to host my reverbs/FX, etc. and feed them from those tracks, of course. And some of them are DSP, some of them are native, I mean, there's no getting around that in this brave new world. But the presence of native plugs in the whole of the session shouldn't cause this kind of delay.

The other responder is hearing what I'm hearing I think. When the singers are saying "something's not right..." yes, that's it. Wow. This is bad!

All I have to compare it with is 10 years of HD|TDM and I've never had this problem. It's pretty unthinkable!

PhilSchroeder 03-10-2014 09:20 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanswurstlsepp (Post 2139174)
Exactly !


My workaround for that is to disable ADC and enable it again.
Helps in about 70% of all cases.


Awesome:o

You're saying that disabling ADC solves the problem? Wow, that's bizarre. I'll try it, though.

Hanswurstlsepp 03-10-2014 09:48 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilSchroeder (Post 2139366)
You're saying that disabling ADC solves the problem? Wow, that's bizarre. I'll try it, though.

Disabling and enabling again .... not just disabling ;)

Hanswurstlsepp 03-10-2014 09:49 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilSchroeder (Post 2139365)

All I have to compare it with is 10 years of HD|TDM and I've never had this problem. It's pretty unthinkable!

Same here. Started with HDX !

johnsimmons 03-10-2014 10:12 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Note i've had tracking weirdness when ADC is off but the ADC delay is still anything other than OFF (in PT10).

Also drag the track you are recording on to the top of the session, see if you have same problems - i have had latency on sessions on HDX and also native (with low latency monitoring) where this has helped.... crazy I know

PhilSchroeder 03-10-2014 10:57 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
I was able to duplicate the problem in PT10, so I think it's a hardware issue. Different version, different system drive, same issue.

I'll try dragging the track to the top of the session, 'cause if that works, it might point to something (but what?). It's not optimal, of course.

TOM@METRO 03-10-2014 11:14 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
I have this HDX/ADC issue as well.

I have also noticed it if I duplicate a track and then try to record on it.

Restarting PT usually solves it.

There are also times when the pre-roll section is very out of sync but it's fine in record.

I have pushed this up the chain of command.

I'm still trying to sort out a an acceptable workaround.

PhilSchroeder 03-10-2014 12:56 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
So Tom, someone "in there" knows about this?

(Do they happen to know where the missing 777 is too?)

johnsimmons 03-10-2014 02:57 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO (Post 2139401)
I have this HDX/ADC issue as well.

I have also noticed it if I duplicate a track and then try to record on it.


This is also a part of my general workflow. I've never been able to create a session where I can reproduce this problem every time annoyingly. It's generally a) big mix or VI/tracking sessions with overdubs b) not having delay compensation set to off on the Engine AND the delay comp tick ie: recording into an exisiting mix session c) duping my vocalling (empty) track for next takes...

EDIT: btw I really think there should be some easy access bug reporting email/form that doesn't involve ideascale or Avid support cases. and yes I submit all my Avid crash data via Pt11... there's plenty of that as well.

Meccanizm 03-11-2014 06:58 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Am Having Latency Issues two

loosestones 03-12-2014 05:43 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
I have a HDX2 system and am having these issues too, mostly when doing what an above poster mentioned (duplicating existing audio tracks sans the audio to record on) For example, I'll have 2 tracks setup to record some rhythm guitars on the left side, then duplicate the tracks to record the right side.

Closing the session, then reopening fixes the issue for me, but it's such an annoying issue (that I did not have on my old TDM system)

Any word on this from the AVID guys?

HDX|2

Matt
Loose Stones Studios

Kaneepa 03-15-2014 07:43 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Same problem in my two different studios .. One HDX2 and one HDX based.
I had the same bug on HD6 too before upgrading..
Sometimes in complex sessions while recording a new track, latency goes crazy high .. My workaround is pressing two times the green input button .
This usually temporarily solves the problem and resets back the latency on the record track to zero ..Usually though a couple of takes later bug will reappear...

Please Avid investigate !

JFreak 03-15-2014 09:28 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
First of all, check your session setup window. It will say how many samples of latency your system has. IF it's too big a number, you are using some (perhaps just one) plugin that causes massive amount of latency that needs to be compensated 'cause I assume you have delay compensation activated.

Second, take a look at what your mixer window can show you. There's delay compensation option as well. This will show you which track causes you most trouble. Inactivate plugins one by one and you will know which one is your problem.

I'm 99% sure this advise will help you get things going...

loosestones 03-16-2014 04:17 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Nope, session latency is fairly low on all my sessions where this is happening?
(at most (1500ish) any other ideas?

TOM@METRO 03-16-2014 10:56 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
This seems to be a hit and miss issue. Most users are not seeing it. Those that are have not been able to offer a perfect 100% reproducible scenario. So...it's tough to rule out 3rd party plug-ins or pilot error.

And yes, it has been reported referencing this thread.

Toggling ADC off then on again has been a simple solution here for me.

Also, use Quickpunch as opposed to Normal if you feel you are experiencing ADC issues in Pre Roll while recording.

If someone can offer a 100% reproducible case, please post it here.

SoundEng1 03-16-2014 11:33 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Same issues here.

Hanswurstlsepp 04-09-2014 04:52 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Any news bout this bug ? Had it a couple of times during the last recording sessions that the "talent" told me that "there's a delay" when he/she sings/plays.

Disabling and enabling DC did not help. I had to close the session and reload it.

Then it worked for a while again - but it re-occured - mostly after record arming a different audio track.

Very bad and it kills the talent's creativity !!!

TOM@METRO 04-09-2014 05:16 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
If this happens again... Toggle the ADC off then on again. At least this is a fast fix.

Hanswurstlsepp 04-09-2014 05:34 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO (Post 2147684)
If this happens again... Toggle the ADC off then on again. At least this is a fast fix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanswurstlsepp (Post 2147682)

Disabling and enabling DC did not help. I had to close the session and reload it.


Mixchump 04-09-2014 07:29 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Yeah, late to the discussion here, but this has been driving me INSANE for the last year now.. To be honest, I had no idea how often this was happening, until I did a vocal session with the singer in the control room all day... It's happening literally, 60 to 70% of the time. Deactivate the track, and it's ok for a little while, and then back again. Seems that overdubbing into a complex mix with lots of delay comp, becomes a complete clusterf&@K. For example, recording an acoustic guitar with two microphones (neck - body) on grouped mono tracks, often results in one of the two channels having massive delay on 'Input'. Deactivating the tracks and reactivating seems to work about half of the time. Otherwise, close session, reboot, reopen session is the only recourse...

Totally unacceptable...

WildHoney 04-10-2014 08:52 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixchump (Post 2147715)
Yeah, late to the discussion here, but this has been driving me INSANE for the last year now.. To be honest, I had no idea how often this was happening, until I did a vocal session with the singer in the control room all day... It's happening literally, 60 to 70% of the time. Deactivate the track, and it's ok for a little while, and then back again. Seems that overdubbing into a complex mix with lots of delay comp, becomes a complete clusterf&@K. For example, recording an acoustic guitar with two microphones (neck - body) on grouped mono tracks, often results in one of the two channels having massive delay on 'Input'. Deactivating the tracks and reactivating seems to work about half of the time. Otherwise, close session, reboot, reopen session is the only recourse...

Totally unacceptable...

Excellent description. I'm getting the exact same behavior here. Deactivate/Activate solves it, but only temporarily; it will resurface either on the same record track or the next record-enabled track.

volodia 04-11-2014 12:45 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixchump (Post 2147715)

Totally unacceptable...

Yes ! Thing is , sometimes it does it on a track and if you record on the next one ( I often prepare a lot of tracks for BVs for ex) it doesn't happen .
It's a flow and creativity killer . You have to have TRUST in your DAW .
I trusted PT but now I tend to think of the next time this is gonna happen .
A HDX2 system is supposed to be very powerful . Wasn't HDX presented as 5 times the power of Accel ?
If It can't figure out latency in the system I don't need that power .

Did any of you try different delay compensation values to see if it happened at all settings ? I use maximum but I'm gonna try other values to see if I get that bug again . The shorter value is almost useless as a lot of plugs (waves tune , Autotune , gtr amp plugs) will produce more than 1000 samples at 256 or 512 buffer . As I said before when I use shorter buffer settings I sometimes get an error message asking to increase the buffer size . I don't recall those native plugins having so much latency on my TDM rig . I'll try and compare it next week .

WildHoney 04-15-2014 10:11 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
I'll just add that I've been working at an outside studio for the last two days, using an HD Native system (PT 10HD) and getting this exact same behavior. Identical to what I get at my place on HDX (PT 10HD).

sound_music 04-18-2014 03:37 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
yup a lot of folks are running into this problem, and it is totally unavoidable if you're using native plugs. and of course since many 3rd parties have abandoned AAX DSP plugs altogether we're [bleep]ed... nice.

the only thing you can do is yank your buffer down to 64 and cross your fingers...

ps - ADC on HDX is a J.O.K.E. with native plugs.

francois 04-18-2014 10:39 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
I have started tom work at 96k on all my project to lower the buffers
I have had the same latency problems when union native or VI when recording
I have read a few month back that disabling the ADC while recording does the trick

Hanswurstlsepp 04-22-2014 04:21 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixchump (Post 2147715)
Deactivating the tracks and reactivating seems to work about half of the time.

THx for this tip ! This helped me during the last recording sessions. Disabling and enabling ADC does not help anymore - also not enabling & disabling InputMonitoring.
The only thing that helped is making the record armed audio track inactive and active again.
In the meantime I'm having this at least once in every recording session I'm doing.
Very disturbing - esp. when doubling vocals etc. where you have to keep the flow !

loud neighbor 04-24-2014 12:01 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Same issues here - random latency during tracking. Toggling ADC off / on, switching buffer sizes (up to 256, then back to 64 or 128), and rebooting are the fixes. Usually always tracking with Quickpunch… Loop record occasionally. Latency randomly appears in both modes.

11.1.2 HD with OSX 10.8.5. Using an Avid I/O (16x16 analog). HDX1 system on a MacPro 4,1 with 32GB of ram, SSD's, all the latest plug-ins, etc.

I don't remember this ever happening with my TDM setup. Avid, please help! (Don't forget the Beat Detective issue too…)

treason 04-24-2014 12:28 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Link here to PT 11 ADC Issues List.

LukeHoward 04-26-2014 12:09 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
I just ran into this bug too it seems. Making the track inactive/active seemed to fix it (toggling ADC didn't).

JimmyM 04-26-2014 06:07 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
2 Attachment(s)
I upgraded Protools 11 to Protools 11HD
HDX with Magma 3T macbook pro Retina quad core i7, 16GH ram.

Normally with my mboxpro avid channel strip and mc dsp no latency ( native )
But now with the dsp version i get at least 7 samples with with avid channel strip...

Whats goin on...i can't remember that i had same with my Mac Pro and PT 10HD

see attachments

francois 04-26-2014 03:24 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Most of the time I just restart the session.If you have a fast computer it take less than a minute
My main grip is the error message that pops once in a while and stops the recording or playback. Never happened with HD on recording with minimum load and my HDX computer is 10 time faster

Peter Duemmler 04-27-2014 04:16 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
CS native's processing is done within the buffer size you set in your prefs, so it shows no ADDITIONAL latency to that, but it always has the buffer size as latency, which is way more than the DSP version's 7 samples (which do not have the buffer latency added).

Hanswurstlsepp 08-28-2014 01:27 AM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixchump View Post
Deactivating the tracks and reactivating seems to work about half of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanswurstlsepp (Post 2151071)
THx for this tip ! This helped me during the last recording sessions. Disabling and enabling ADC does not help anymore - also not enabling & disabling InputMonitoring.
.....

It's still in PT11.2.1. Anyone else or is it just me ? Just wondering cause I found no new posts bout that topic.

SomeDude 11-11-2014 12:54 PM

Re: HDX Latency
 
Trying to keep this thread alive. Ive Been having these issues ever since PT10 and HDX. Ive been using PT for 17 years now. I have 4 rigs in my studio and I fix them all the time. This is not user error!!!!! Alot of people are having this issue. Avid is basically abandoning a serious issue in their flagship model. I think if your spending 10-20k on a rig they should figure these things out.

The problem boils down to having ANY Aux track in a session with something bussed to it. A reverb, or maybe your drums are bussed to a comp, etc. The fact is... as soon as this chain is introduced a random lantency will appear when going to arm your second track to record.

Another issue that I can only assume is linked. ALL of my audio will turn into heavy 4 bit digital distortion randomly on playback. and guess what... it has to do with any plug in on an aux track. Doesnt matter what kind..... could be a compressor, A verb, or just a metering plug. luckily this only comes up every 20 sessions or so.

I dont want to hear about work arounds anymore!!! You try telling that to Slipknot, Usher, Tiffany Evans, Blacktarr....."Oh sorry, My HDX system has a serious issue. Sorry to ruin you performance. let toggle something real quick"

I recently sat down with a couple guys from avid when they were trying to sell me a S6 console. I brought this up. The head guy said... "I havnt heard of that before. But then again... we dont do alot of recording over there":mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: His Second hand guy said... "yeah people have been mentioning that on the forums."

COME ON AVID...... HELP THE GUYS THAT BUY YOUR PRODUCTS NOT THE STOCKHOLDERS!!!!!!!!!!!

This latency issue happens in EVERY RECORDING SESSION I HAVE. no matter how simple or how complex the session.

FIIIIIIXXXXXX ITTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!


Can you tell im frustrated?


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