I see the light!!!!
 

I was mixing some tracks (I make r'n'b and hip hop) till late last night. I was trying to get the modern, loud, bass heavy sound that I'm hearing on the radio. I was putting a pultec here, a fairchild there, a 1176 etc.. (all plugins). Finally put it in t-racks because I thought it wasnt heavy (crunk?#@) enough. Put some reverb on the kick/snare and gated it etc..
I even imported a track into pro tools from nellys albums just to match levels and sound etc..

Woke up this morning, put the track in my mini disc player as I went to work. The whole thing just sounds like sh*t! I think the track before I dumped it in Tools sounded better than what I’ve got now. Where am I going wrong?

So I put in some new cd’s I’ve got, just to check the sound. The new 3rd Storee, Nelly, Justin Timberlake etc… The thing I realize is that the sound is CLEAN. The sounds they use come from the same equipment that I have, Tr rack, mpc kits etc.. I used to think they were doing major thing to the kicks/snares etc.. I thought they were putting compressors over everything etc.. using all sorts of obscure and exotic outboard to get that sound. Now I realize they aint doing ANYTHING to them. They’re just letting it BREATHE. As long as the sounds are clean (i.e. no NOISE, humming etc..) then everything just fits in. I’m starting to think the 1176/Fairchild etc.. are just muddying up my mixes. They “smuge” the sound in an attempt to make them sound analog, but that doesn’t lend it self to clarity, and sharpness.

In short, these plugins that I buy are just a red herring. If the track didn’t work before mix down its not gonna work now. I’m now thinking mixing should NOT radically alter any tracks. It should just make sure things are clean, and if they are clean, don’t do anything else to it. If the kick doesn’t work then it was probably the wrong kick, don’t go eqing and compressing the sh*t out of it.

When I first got my MPC and TR-rack and didn’t have pro tools, just a 2 channel dj mixer. Listening back, the mixes were a lot sharper, cleaner and just better than what I’m getting now. I think the radio sound just comes from mastering. I think its time to go back to basics. Less is more it seems ….

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

"Now I realize they aint doing ANYTHING to them."

If you think they "ain't" than they are doing a good job. I've mixed hip hop and a lot of the tracks might sound nice when its just two tracks, but start adding vocals and things start to change. You do modify the tracks when mixing(especially kick,snares and bass), its just the quality of the processors are better(compared to plugs). Sometimes its just the dynamics in the SSL console(a lot of times its a mixture). I think to think nothing is done is a little naive, but I understand your point. In hip hop, sometimes everything being raw and straight up works best. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

It's easy to feel like you have to use all the gadgets you got especially after spending all the big bucks.

A lot of people get obsessed with the gear to the point that they're not even making music and just obsessing over what gear they don't have and what they have to get next.

I think the bottom line is the performances. Hit records sell millions because the music strikes an emotional chord with the listener. The average music consumer is not concerned with compression, eq, mastering, and what high end reverbs the engineer used on the recording.

Stick to the performances and I think everything else will fall into place. I think you are totally right about keeping it simple. I always revert back to Miles Davis to emphasize that point.

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When rockwilder or Just Blaze to make a beat they dont do the mixing. When u have to make the beat/song etc.. and then maintain an objectivity to mix it gets harder. I seriously think that the only thing I should be doing is creative i.e. deciding what drums I want and wether the clap needs reverb or not. All that fitting sounds in the mix using eq or making the whole thing sound like radio stuff (i.e. limiting/compression) I think I'm gonna leave that out. Besides a lot of drum sounds in hip hop are sampled from othe records so its not like they need further processing. Any processing after that is probably just creative. My understanding (having not used one) is that putting drum sounds through an SSL/Neve will give the product are certain sound anyway, without adding much eq/compression.

Maybe I should be mixing the track down on an analog desk or something.. I dont know anymore!!!

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

Your spot on threesixty. Less is best.

As your music is elctronic based it stands to reason that you dont need all those plugins unless you wanna get Aphex Twin weirdness.

Try this test

Compose your track to completion. Mix with the faders and pan position only. Dont use a single EQ or comp on anything. The temptation will be near unbearable but you must not eq anythibg. If you need delay and reverb go real easy. Even better is to avoid them as well. Obviously dont choose a kik drum that sounds tinny. Get the sounds right to start with.

leave the track for a day or 2. Then go back and I bet you $10,000 you will only need to eq 3 or 4 elements .The same goes for Fx.

Give that method a try you will be amazed at how little EQ a track really needs.

It really does work

I used to do the same thing. slap EQ, comps, here there and everywhere. Results........Mush. I wont name them. some of those so called EQ's, analog emulators, comps (you know the ones that are supposed to take us back to the 60's/70's. Mush all of them and a waste of hard earned $$

Good Luck [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

I'm realizing this as well. In fact check out this month's EQ Magazine. Great profile on one of the engineers that "The Neptunes" work with all the time. The article focuses on how they recorded the bass part in Nelly's "Hot In Herre". From what I read, they take it straight outta the Triton and run it through some Neve's to fatten it up a bit....Then right to PT. I've managed good results in the last week using Analoge Channel's console settings. I read in this forum that preset "Console 2" emulates a Neve and "Console 1" Emulates SSL. I also have gotten good results with Reneissanse Bass...much better in my opnion than Maxxbass. I recently made the same mistake "over mixing" with plugs. I mixed two songs this week. The one I used "less stuff" on sounded great! I was putting it up against Jay-Z's latest album and I didn't hear much too different (I'm not mastered yet). I mixed the other song this week and used all these plugs. popped it in...sounded lifeless and squashed. I'm learning that "Less is more"...not just in mixing but production and every facet of the creation process. It's tough because you think you HAVE to tweek "Naa, I can't possible be done yet!?" Maybe u are. I am slowly learning to trust my ears and stop letting my eyes rule as they bug out at plug-in settings and meters.

Great thread...please continue to contribute folks. I mix hip-hop, and am always looking to learn.

Bye the way...Not all that Justin Timberlake and Nelly stuff sounds "That Great". Don't copy, be aware of what industry expectations are but I think we should be artists and try things. Make your mixes stand out 'cause YOU mixed them. I just listened to Justin's record today while DJing...vocals get hissy, same with Christina Aquilera. Nelly...some of the stuff has way tooo much low end in the mixes. "Air Force Ones" I'd like to hear the vocals a bit more up front...and how about some sequencing...same damn loop the WHOLE TIME! The songs loses me after the first verse.

An engineer told me once "The only ****in rule as that there are no ****in rules." Just trends maybe.

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

Well I agree here, using as few plugins as possible. But no fewer ;=)

I like to see recording as some kind of information processing with musical information that needs to be as intact as possible to the listener at the CD-player on the other end.

And sometimes I have to help things along with some EQ etc. so it wont clog up the channel. The mixing has to be done so that the listener can hear the most important information and this is always easier if you can remove stuff that doesnt need to be there.

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

Hay, great stuff!
Although I am just a digi001 user for now...I must agree.
for me one of the best tricks is hering more and seeing lees.
(like the digidesign eq2 just knobs).
like it been said above get the right sound form the start.
many times I have been over processing bad sound and I end up with the same bad sound that I started with. get your quality from the start, same with everything.

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

Working on our second record now, we spent a lot more pre-production time selecting samples, and listening to them. Get it right from the start. get it going in.

Re: I see the light!!!!
 

The only thing I will add here is to make sure you nudge your tracks to account for plug-in delay. It will make a world of difference.

Brett