Breathy Vocals
 

I am trying to add a phone/radio effect to breathy vocals.

After I add the effect it sounds very muffled. Is it because the vocals are so breathy/airy? or is it due to my inexperience?

Is there a way to make the vocals sound more clear and still have the phone/old radio effect on them?

I'd like the vocals to sound professional, like how a vocals in a normal song would sound. Maybe something like the Gorillaz music?

Any advice appreciated.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Try adding an insane amount of compression after the filters and I mean INSANE

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Or use plugins - Soundtoys etc.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

McDSP Futzbox

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Thank you for your feedback.
I tried doing this but it just made everything louder. Including the muffled vocals. I may be doing it wrong though.

I just googled what compression is and it seems to be making the volume of the vocals all the same. This isn't really an issue with volume, it's airy/breathy all the way through. The volume is pretty solid throughout.

This is more about - is it possible to make the vocals sound less breathy. But I'm not realizing that these EQ settings (the radio settings) might just not match up with breathiness/airyness in general. It brings them out, and only them.

So bringing up the volume on all vocals equally won't make them less breathy, it'll just make everything the same volume. Which isn't really the point of this question. It's more to do with can I even add the radio EQ effect on airy/breathy vocals or is it just going to cut all the parts where the singer isn't breathy ... anyway, I don't think the issue here is compression. I think that there just can't be this radio effect on these vocals. It's just highlighting the breathiness and I don't think compression can help this issue.

I think that maybe to make it less breathy I need to cut the mid range rather than enhance it in EQ. This will get rid of the radio effect but it might just be pointless right now.

Please feel free to correct me as I'm completely new to this and may be doing it wrong.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Hello. I'm using the Kings Microphone and Kramer Tape plugins.
I've heard other people use them nicely, but it doesn't work well for me.

Do you think that the breathiness in the vocals are mainly in the mid-range frequencies and that the radio effect is just amplifying the breathiness while cutting the more clear vocals in the high and bottom range? Is this why breathy vocals sound so muddy with the radio effect? Or is it because I'm new to pro tools and aren't doing the settings correctly? I'm really new to all of this so I'm just guessing and trying to learn on my own at the moment.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Every track is different. Use an EQ instead.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

It depends on where the breathiness is coming from - is it in the singer's singing? If so there's a couple of things that need to be done. First is get a pop filter in front of the microphone. Second change the mic used. Not everyone's voice can be recorded with the same mic - every mic has a different sound and that's why studios have multiple mics available to them. What mic are you using?

If the recorded vocal is clean then ditch the King's Microphone and Kramer Tape. The Kramer Tape plugin is finicky as to the signal being fed to it as well as it's settings. As has been said to you many times you really need to get a good grounding in the basics of audio recording and what different effects do.

What is this 'radio effect' you are talking about? Is it one where the highs and lows are limited to sound like an old AM radio?

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Like what I said in the beginning a sound similar to the gorillaz. The main vocalist has that kind of radio/telephone effect on the vocals.
It's the singers voice. The actual singers voice is breathy in real life. The breathiness is fine, I don't mind it. The vocals just sound like they don't belong because they are so unclear and muddy.

I've tried EQ, compression, and d-verb, watched buttloads of tutorials.. Just to give you an idea I've been working on just the vocals for 2 weeks with a minimum of 10 hours a day purely working on the vocals. I'm doing my best to put in the time but no matter what, even if I take off the telephone effect the vocals just sound unclear and muddy.. I'm not sure how to phrase it. It just doesn't sound professional.

I know for a fact that people can make even the crappiest mics sound good because some people even use ipads and phones to record music and vocals
and they somehow manage to still make it sound professional - even if it's distorted.

I don't mind if it sounds distorted or breathy in any way. It just overall always, no matter what I try, sounds unprofessional. Like it doesn't fit in the song. I've even tried different singers. It's definitely my lack of skill. I'm not too sure on what else to try when I feel like I've covered all the basics and even more advanced tutorials I could possibly find online.

A good song example that the audio was recorded on a phone is "White Light" even though it's clearly distorted it just "fits" in the song.. I just don't know how else to explain it. No matter what I do, the vocals .. any vocals I put in don't "fit"

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...-gorrliaz.html


https://www.reddit.com/r/gorillaz/co..._voice_effect/

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

and, from the producer:



“The vocals start at track 42, with Damon’s lead vocal. The main lo-fi telephone-like effect is the typical 2-D sound, because this is a 2-D song. I can’t tell you what it is, but it’s done with hardware. The plug-ins on the inserts are a Waves Renaissance De-esser and RVox, and the Waves Kramer PIE [compressor], which I use a lot on vocals. Below are two tracks of lead vocals with delays.


Stephen Sedgwick’s two main plug-in reverbs for ‘Charger’ were the UAD Lexicon 224 and EMT Plate 140.While recording, I often use the SoundToys EchoBoy for delays, but I replace that with hardware delays to get more character. In this case these two tracks are prints of me running Damon’s vocals through a Roland SDE 2000. I was having fun with that, doing fast delays and delays with modulation. Then there are some Damon harmonies, and the yellow tracks are him singing the chorus, and some of these are pitched down an octave with the Little AlterBoy. I usually compress vocals with outboard, either using Empirical Labs Distressors or sometimes the Summit TLA 100A or Tube-Tech CL1B compressor. If want to impose a lot of character I’ll engage an old Collins broadcast limiter. For reverbs on the vocals I often use the studio’s EMT 140 plate.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

You really need to pay attention to what I wrote in my previous post. Try a different mic. And ditch that King's Microphone plugin.


I'm confused - at one time you talked abut a 'radio effect' and another a 'telephone effect'. I don't listen to the Gorillaz so don't know what you're talking about. But keep in mind either of those types of effects are band limited by design. Old telephones were band limited to roughly 300HZ to 3 KHz. Also keep in mind that you're trying to emulate a sound that was captured in a multi-million dollar studio with a top-notch artist and engineer.


I just listened to White Light and the vocals is a highly distorted/saturated sound with a lot of the low end rolled off. It's like listening to something with no woofer and all tweeter. Or a broken microphone. Like I said before grab McDSP's Futzbox - it should give you what you want. Of course if you really knew the basics of audio you could do it with whatever plugins you have on hand.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Hey man. I already took your advice and ditched those plugins. Thank you for all your advice and time.

I'm just frustrated that I've spent 900 hours in pro tools and at least an additional 500 hours watching tutorials and I still can't grasp the basics of anything. I don't even know how much money I spent on plugins that I thought would help me that others claim are great but I can't seem to make it work like they do. I understand this is due to my lack of experience, but anywhere I try to learn fails to teach me. Everything I've learnt is just from myself or listening to "stems" and trying to emulate them.

I don't believe that I need a multi million dollar studio to make a good song. There are plenty of songs that sound professional (at least to my ears) that have been claimed to be made in peoples basements and bedrooms. (Any song from the artist Billie Eilish for example)

Like I said previously, regardless of what telephone, radio what-ever effect I add it doesn't sound professional to me. I just don't think I need millions of dollars to get the sound I want. I should just be able to make good music with what I have, yet 900 hours later I am still unable to make vocals sound good - or at least to the point where it SOUNDS like it's going somewhere.. ANYWHERE.

Thank you for your time, I understand that this forum isn't for beginners and I'm easily pushed aside and told to learn the basics and not told where to learn. Clearly you guys aren't learning from youtube tutorials or paid tutorials. Where are you all learning? School? I don't know.. I'm just so stuck on just this one song I've been trying to make for 450 hours now.. 450 hours of listening to the same 1 minute and 30 second song over and over. and I still can't get the vocals to sound decent. Which is a shame because I really like the song. I just don't know what to do.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Apologies for that. There is certainly room for beginners just as the seasoned professionals. We can all learn from each other.

Please don't be offended if someone says you need to learn the basics. It's like going to PT 101 course or something. One book I can recommend for anyone is Bob Katz: Mastering Audio. And one advise I can give is move all your non-Avid plugins to unused folder for a while and try go learn the basics with standard plugins.

Bear with us... sometimes we're busy and something like "learn the basics" is all one has time to write. But even then, there is this wisdom of "you're looking at the problem from wrong perspective".

Cheers!

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

You've been given several sources to learn from - Lynda, Groove 3, YouTube and of course a Google search. Another place to learn if you have access to it is a professional studio. Pick some job like coffee getter or so on and watch and learn. A lot of us learned that way. A recording school would be another source but that isn't going to be cheap.


If you truly are spending that amount of time on one song no wonder you're having issues getting what you call a 'decent' sound. Take a break, go outside and enjoy nature's sounds. You're suffering from ear fatigue and that happens to all of us sooner or later. Another thing that can contribute to ear fatigue is a poor listening setup with sub-par monitor speakers.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

I'm not offended at all. Just confused when people are telling me to learn the basics but I don't even know what the basics are or where to learn them. I've tried Lynda, Google and Youtube but everythings just all over the place and I'm not sure what is considered a basic and how many basics there are.. or anything like that. People keep telling me what I'm trying to do is too advanced and to get off the forums and learn the basics first .. without telling me what the basics are. I know that people don't have time to explain what I assume to be a whole bunch of information so that's why I don't pursue them.

Thank you for your book recommendation. I will try to get my hands on that.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Basics are things like:
eq - what it is and what it does (think of the bass & treble controls on your car stereo)
compression - what it is and what it does
The above are just a couple of basic things you need to learn.

As someone has said the DUC is not a forum for how to learn the basics of audio recording or even what certain terms mean. Just pop different terms into Google; like type in 'audio equalization' and see what comes up. Do the same thing for compression, etc. People here will point you to where to look but it's up to you how you make use of those pointers.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Why don’t you post a clip of the audio and people might give you some pointers?

I’m truly baffled at how many posts I’ve seen describing audio in words. Post the damn audio! HAHAHA

We’re audio engineers. Let us hear and we might be able to offer some suggestions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

This would be an excellent idea. Via YouTube we know what the Gorillaz White Light tune sounds like so at least we know where you want to go. But we can't give directions until we know where you're starting from.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Lue - which plugins do you have that might be useful for what you are hoping to achieve with this vocal?

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

What the voice of White Light has is extreme distortion. The telephone voice on Humility for example is a filter followed by compression to the point it is distorted, then slap back delay and some stereo widening, that's why it sounds breathy but that doesn't mean it was intentionally recorded that way, they probably used a dynamic mic like a sm7b or a sm58.

Breathy vocals are extremely difficult to mix for me, however a lot of compression on a rather normal voice can bring all the breath from the background. What I think you can't find it the exact cut points of the filters, start by using the HPF of EQ3 at 24db/oct and cut all the lows until it sounds good to you, then use the LPF and cut the highs until it sounds like Gorillaz, then compress to accentuate the respiration and add distortion.

If you have access to Lindell Audio 6X-500 preamp watch this video and apply that to your vocal track:
https://youtu.be/aBv1in9g4G0

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

I wouldn't be surprised if they used a Green Bullet harmonica mic or one of those little front address mics made with a copper shell.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Could be, less low and highs to cut. Anything but that King's Microphones!

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Oh don't get me started. That plugin was april fools' joke, right?

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

I actually assumed it was a plugin to simulate the sound of someone talking on the radio circa 1943> as in dialog, not singing. But I didn't actually do any research on it as it didn't seem useful to me.:rolleyes:
As for the OP's issue I would probably avoid compression and move toward an expander and/or transient shaper to get the vocal as solid as possible before mangling it to sound band limited, etc.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Yea, and to the OP, please keep using only the stock Avid plugins for now... so every one of us who you ask for help will have the same tools available

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Nice video - well done

To the op - if they are too muffly even after applying the telephone effect....then I would cut some mud before the tele effect- (subtractive eq)

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Something else the vocals in the Gorillaz tune sounds like is singing into a megaphone. Said it before and I'll say it again - McDSP Futzbox would be aces for this.

Sad part of this thread is, if the op is being straight about what he's posted, is that while we're all giving good advice he doesn't seem to understand even the fundamentals of audio & recording. Yet we've posted where he can find help but he still seems like he's wandering in the desert.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Thank you Daniel! that's very kind of you.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

I've seen a few of your tutorial vids and they are always concise, to the point and explain things clearly enough anyone can follow. Not to mention the audio quality is top-notch.

Have you thought about doing stuff for Groove 3:cool:

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Well, as always it is a great honour to hear that from you (and from any of the other guys here too) but I don't think I have the knowledge and the jargo to sell tutorials. What I do is to log my discoveries in a way that I can easily recall in detail (and share it with others of course) and since I hate so much the general tone of most YouTube tutorials (you know, the typical guy talking for 15 minutes before showing how to solo safe a channel, etc) I make them as short and unobtrusive as possible. Turns out that has become some sort of a niche for my channel that friends appreciate as much as I do.

The biggest benefit that I have derived from doing this is that by constantly showing my work I feel compromised to do a better job at every level and my mixes/playing/compositions have improved as a result.

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

Can I jump on this question as well?

I have the same problem with breathy vocals but I can't pinpoint if it's the singer's singing, the hardware, the recording environment, or the effects chain

Apart from using different hardware/recording equipment, how would one go about diagnosing this issue?

Re: Breathy Vocals
 

First off if those effects are s/w drop them. Record the signal dry or at most with slight compression - I'd use an LA2A type here.

It could well be the singer's delivery and there's not much you can do about that. Take it from experience if you try and get a vocalist to change their delivery you will be in for a LONG session; depends on how you phrase the request. If you say something like 'that was good but let's try something different' that will go over better than saying 'that sucked and you should take up something else than singing'

Make sure the vocalist is comfortably positioned and isn't straining their body or voice to sing into the mic. Also make sure the vocalist isn't tying to sing with a dry set of vocal chords. Different singers have different needs to moisten their vocal chords.

Next thing I'd try is a different mic and make sure you have a pop filter in front of the mic. Maybe try a dynamic mic instead of a large diaphragm condenser. Or even a ribbon mic if you have access to one.