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-   -   Waves Studiorack (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=356823)

Emcha_audio 07-28-2014 01:46 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by upscaps (Post 2174459)
Right now we will continue to use Native aax waves with our HDX rigs. The waves hardware, extra software mixer, just seems convoluted and a workflow killer. The studiorack really seems like it would hamper big sessions. I have to open the rack then go to the plugin I want inside the rack to make changes. In large sessions I cant see visually what I need to see. How do you automate a plugin within the studiorack without affecting the others? Plus waves keeps dancing around the latency specs.

Yeah from what I've been trying, you can open the SR plugin, but I haven't found how to get to the plugins withing the SR to open that up from my controller and use it. They say you can map the controls you want to a controller through Midi, but that's not how I work and how I want to work. I want to be able to use my regular workflow.

JFreak 07-28-2014 01:47 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by upscaps (Post 2174459)
Right now we will continue to use Native aax waves with our HDX rigs. The waves hardware, extra software mixer, just seems convoluted and a workflow killer. The studiorack really seems like it would hamper big sessions. I have to open the rack then go to the plugin I want inside the rack to make changes. In large sessions I cant see visually what I need to see. How do you automate a plugin within the studiorack without affecting the others? Plus waves keeps dancing around the latency specs.

Same here, NO WAY !!!

I'm also recommending this for everyone discussing me about the topic, and I have heard I'm certainly not the only one doing so.

If Waves would just find their brain some day and port their plugs to AAX-DSP, they might see a whopping number of re-wupping customers reappear...

I myself have not find a reason to re-wup because of this.

Raoul23 07-28-2014 02:00 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
I can't see the point of this SR at all. I wanna see the plugins that are active in the inserts not click through another plugin to find what I'm using or mess about with controllers to automate the plugin. Like JFreak mentioned there is no reason to re-wup for most users as we don't gain anything. Today I was experimenting with TDM plugs and native plugs. I was playing the guitar through an array of waves plugs and swapping them backwards and forwards between native and the relative TDM version. Kramer tape had no noticeable latency in TDM but in native form I would not be able to track with that sort of latency. So going back to the SR plugin thing I can see latency issues becoming a big problem and I certainly wouldn't buy more gear just so I could track with the soundgrid versions more money, more hassle and a pain in the backside to be honest!!!!!! WAVES JUST SORT AAX DSP OUT it will in the best interest for your business and customers we will all benefit :)

Emcha_audio 07-28-2014 02:04 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raoul23 (Post 2174472)
WAVES JUST SORT AAX DSP OUT it will in the best interest for your business and customers we will all benefit :)

+1

Waves Audio 07-28-2014 03:28 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
Hi,

We know there’s been a lot of interest and questions about the release of the SoundGrid Studio System and want to take the opportunity to address some of these directly.

To begin with, DiGiGrid I/O interfaces and the included SoundGrid Studio System software are intended to be innovative enhancements to your current studio setup, not replacements. We like to think of this as a customizable platform that you can fit entirely to your needs. There are DiGiGrid interfaces for native users, Pro Tools users and live users, and these interfaces come in a variety of options both with and without a SoundGrid DSP server.

While increased DSP processing is certainly one of the major advantages of a SoundGrid System, the ability to do low-latency monitoring, work in real-time with multiple DAWs, and connect everything with a single Ethernet cable (more on that in a minute) is what really opens up the possibilities to do much more, as shown in some of these videos:

http://www.waves.com/mixing-tracking...h-digigrid-ios
http://www.waves.com/run-various-daw...y-digigrid-ios
http://www.waves.com/sharing-studior...s-between-daws

Now let’s get into some specifics.

In order to test the SoundGrid Studio System, we ported one plugin, the SSL G-Channel, while testing HDX systems. Although we did not release this HDX plugin, we used it for benchmarks.

Regarding latency, the internal processing for Native users of the DiGiGrid IOS in low latency monitoring mode is 0.8 ms + A/D and D/A convertors. No matter what Native buffer parameters are set on your DAW, when using the StudioRack and the eMotion ST low-latency path, the round trip is:

- A/D latency is less than 1ms
- SoundGrid processing (StudioRack + eMotionSt mixer) – 0.8ms
- Plugins latency – depends on which plugins and how many of them are instantiated
- D/A latency less than 1ms

The default processing latency is the same for all DiGiGrid I/Os, however it may differ between A/D and D/A convertors.

Internal processing for HDX users of the DiGiGrid DLS is only 0.8ms, while for HD Native users of the DiGiGrid DLS is 0.8ms + HDN buffer x2.

If you’re not using SoundGrid processing at all, the total latency would be dependent on your PT Native buffer + SG system A/D, D/A and network buffer:

- A/D latency is less than 1ms
- SoundGrid ASIO / Core Audio driver latency – 4ms
- D/A latency less than 1ms

The StudioRack Plugin Chainer can use native processing or the processing power of a SoundGrid server. Using SoundGrid processing requires a SoundGrid I/O, a SoundGrid server, and the appropriate SoundGrid licenses.

All TDM license owners have been provided with SoundGrid licenses free of charge, and any DiGiGrid IOS purchase includes a $500 voucher for additional Waves plugins.


All SoundGrid Systems, live and studio alike, use the same SoundGrid ASIO/Core Audio driver and are compliant with StudioRack, MultiRack, the eMotion ST mixer and the SoundGrid Studio application. The distinction between live and studio is made in order to differentiate between hosts for live use such as MultiRack and hosts for studio work such as the StudioRack and the eMotion ST mixer.

For console owners who only want additional DSP, a simple SoundGrid DSP system can be established with a single SoundGrid I/O: http://www.waves.com/hardware/soundgrid-interfaces and SoundGrid server:
http://www.waves.com/hardware/soundgrid-servers

Some of the DiGiGrid I/Os already come with a built-in SoundGrid server, as mentioned above: http://www.waves.com/hardware/digigrid-interfaces

You can also see the setup tab on the SoundGrid Studio Application page to learn more about how this works: http://www.waves.com/soundgrid-studi...tem-quick-tour

The DSP server is a low latency Linux server that has been carefully created by Waves to provide reliability and stability. The server only works with specific motherboards and chipsets and is compiled only for them. The servers were tested with hundreds of plugins on about 20 different DAW systems across 5 different operating systems and 4 different sample rates. There is no need for connecting a computer screen and keyboard to the SoundGrid Server. It connects through the SoundGrid Studio Application that runs on your host computer.

One of the easily overlooked but very beneficial aspects of a SoundGrid System is the Ethernet component. SoundGrid Ethernet provides uncompressed, multi-channel, low-latency digital audio over Ethernet networks, which saves the need to install multiple line cables in the walls and floors of your studio. A single Ethernet cable can connect between I/O boxes in different rooms and save lots of money on the purchasing and maintenance of analog cables. Ethernet cables also endure longer distances without suffering any signal degradation compared to USB, Firewire and DigiLink cables.

Regarding third-party plugins, Plugin Alliance is our first supported third-party plugin manufacturer (as presented at NAMM 2014). Other plugin manufacturers are already in the process of integrating SoundGrid protocol through the Waves Public API (WPAPI).

Finally, we’d like to point out that SoundGrid hardware has been in the market for over 4 years, debuting in the live market with the Yamaha Y-16, followed by the Allen & Heath M-Waves and DiGiCo Consoles, and are in use all over the world by many high level engineers. The DiGiGrid hardware units are manufactured in collaboration with DiGiCo, and are equipped with high quality convertors and components. DiGiCo is a well-established brand and the DiGiGrid interfaces are fully supported by DiGiCo and Waves, now and in the future.

If you have any other questions please let us know and we’ll try and answer them the best we can. However, the quickest way to get a reply is usually to contact us through social media. There have also been some helpful people such as our beta testers who are very knowledgeable about the SoundGrid Studio System and we encourage you to seek them out as well.

All the best,
The Waves Team

Emcha_audio 07-28-2014 09:54 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves Audio (Post 2174526)
Now let’s get into some specifics.

In order to test the SoundGrid Studio System, we ported one plugin, the SSL G-Channel, while testing HDX systems. Although we did not release this HDX plugin, we used it for benchmarks.

Hi, and thanks for chiming in, very much appreciated.

Can you tell us about how you went about to port the SSl plugin? was the 3 blocks element decoupled from one an other so that only the processor block was loaded onto the HDX chip?

Mike496 07-28-2014 10:16 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
And was a true optimization done along with the module separation?

Emcha_audio 07-28-2014 10:24 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
An other question that comes to my mind, is was it tested on a hdx1 2 or hdx 3 system? :D

Cause frankly even if you only had a 170 instance of SSl without optimization and without decoupling the modules, most owners if not all of your tdm bundles would have told your right away, we'll take it, you can optimize it later!

propower 07-28-2014 10:25 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves Audio (Post 2174526)

Regarding latency, the internal processing for Native users of the DiGiGrid IOS in low latency monitoring mode is 0.8 ms + A/D and D/A convertors. No matter what Native buffer parameters are set on your DAW, when using the StudioRack and the eMotion ST low-latency path, the round trip is:

- A/D latency is less than 1ms
- SoundGrid processing (StudioRack + eMotionSt mixer) – 0.8ms
- Plugins latency – depends on which plugins and how many of them are instantiated
- D/A latency less than 1ms

Hi there - I am really trying to understand the expected latency of this system with PT Native and HD Native...
Lets concentrate on just Native to start using an IOS only...

From the GS thread ---
Thanks so much for all of this...

If I may please drill in a little further on the IOS in particular

1) For A/D and D/A latency this is often specified in samples and so is usually Sample Rate dependent. Also saying less than 1ms can mean anything at 44.1kHz from 1.99ms total to ??? For the IOS can we have the actual value for

1A) A/D and D/A times at 44.1 kHz
1B) A/D and D/A times at 96 kHz

2) When plugins are run with SG processing (SR +eMotion) you mention the 0.8ms which I suppose is the minimum processing latency - but then you mention "depends on which plugins and how many of them are instantiated". So at 44.1kHz in PT, RComp adds 64 samples of delay when used natively - On SG does it also add this delay?? When and with which Plugins is there additional latency when running them on the SG server.

Thanks!

------ to which you answered ---------
Quote:

Originally Posted by fromGS
here's a list of all Waves plugins with their latencies in SoundGrid, TDM and Native modes:
Plugin Latency | Support | Waves

------ to which I asked --------
So for example -
The total latency to track with Ren Comp and Kramer Master Tape using an IOS at 44.1kHz =

(A/D + D/A (something less than 2ms)
+ SG server in/out (0.8ms)
+ RenComp delay (64samples/44100) 1.45ms
+ Kramer Master Tape (59/44100) 1.33ms
= 3.58ms + something less than 2ms

Thanks!

Mike496 07-28-2014 10:51 PM

Re: Waves Studiorack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio (Post 2174625)
Cause frankly even if you only had a 170 instance of SSl without optimization and without decoupling the modules, most owners if not all of your tdm bundles would have told your right away, we'll take it, you can optimize it later!


Truth! [emoji16]


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