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-   -   Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24 (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=342878)

Pie Hole Sound 08-06-2013 11:32 AM

Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
1 Attachment(s)
Between no support for PT11 and the toroid transformer in my original Control|24 going south, I believe the universe may be trying to tell me something ;)

Anyway, do any of you fine folks know where I can obtain a replacement toroid transformer (attached picture of my failed unit)? The model number on the part is E115159 - part number is TI-67341C.

Also, can anyone confirm that these transformers have internal thermal fuses or not? I am measuring no voltage from the secondary outputs on this thing.

I left the Control|24 on for a couple of hours while I was out of my control room. When I came back in, I was greeted by a PT message indicating it couldn't communicate with the Control|24. The Control|24 appeared to be totally powered off. There was a pungent smell in the room that smelled suspiciously like the toroid transformer does now that I have it removed.

Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can impart!

Darryl Ramm 08-06-2013 11:53 AM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
I don't know how the PSU is arranged and what board the transformer is in but have you seen this thread? http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=296733.

You might be able to soon buy a whole working Control 24 for a lot less than a PSU repair....

Pie Hole Sound 08-06-2013 12:16 PM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2070662)
I don't know how the PSU is arranged and what board the transformer is in but have you seen this thread? http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=296733.

You might be able to soon buy a whole working Control 24 for a lot less than a PSU repair....



I have seen this thread. It refers to a later power-supply manufactured by Skynet (yep) for a bit later revision of the Control|24 than mine.

My Control|24 is one of the original run. It has a toroidal (donut-shaped) transformer that is bolted to the inner casing of the Control|24. This is the part that has failed.

I'm going to give this thing one more repair go. If I can't get it done, I may be one of those people selling it, either whole with a failed power-supply, or parting out.

Darryl Ramm 08-06-2013 06:58 PM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
Didn't those original power supplies have a lot more problems than the Skynet ones? Personally I would give up on the Toroidal transformer and look for a used Skynet one, assuming they are plug compatible (I don't know). Even if you have to pay Skynet to repair it.

If you _really_ want to fix this. You might find the ratings on the boards the transformer connects to. Which of the windings are open-circuit? Are all the windings still isolated? If the primary is open-circuit then yes I'd expect a thermal fuse. I'd like to think that anybody designing a device like this would spec a thermal fuse primary transformer for saftey. You can cut it open to look. No loss if you do. Interesting to see how these are made. The fuse is often well buried/thermally bonded to the coils.

I normally enjoy the hunt of finding replacement parts like this, but this part does not show up on any cross references. Bits of Toroidal International are still around as part of Noratel, if you were desperate you could try contacting them.

I really hate it when vendors do these private label parts and don't write specs on them. You will need to work out what the primary and secondary voltages/rations are (you can sometimes experiment with a signal generator and scope) and might get lucky looking for a similar toroidal transformer. And I'd just call places that might work on these/folks parting out Control 24s.

You could trade it on an Icon, I don't think Avid cares if the trades are working :-)

And who the hell is Nancy?

Pie Hole Sound 08-07-2013 07:49 PM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2070786)
Didn't those original power supplies have a lot more problems than the Skynet ones? Personally I would give up on the Toroidal transformer and look for a used Skynet one, assuming they are plug compatible (I don't know). Even if you have to pay Skynet to repair it.

If you _really_ want to fix this. You might find the ratings on the boards the transformer connects to. Which of the windings are open-circuit? Are all the windings still isolated? If the primary is open-circuit then yes I'd expect a thermal fuse. I'd like to think that anybody designing a device like this would spec a thermal fuse primary transformer for saftey. You can cut it open to look. No loss if you do. Interesting to see how these are made. The fuse is often well buried/thermally bonded to the coils.

I normally enjoy the hunt of finding replacement parts like this, but this part does not show up on any cross references. Bits of Toroidal International are still around as part of Noratel, if you were desperate you could try contacting them.

I really hate it when vendors do these private label parts and don't write specs on them. You will need to work out what the primary and secondary voltages/rations are (you can sometimes experiment with a signal generator and scope) and might get lucky looking for a similar toroidal transformer. And I'd just call places that might work on these/folks parting out Control 24s.

You could trade it on an Icon, I don't think Avid cares if the trades are working :-)

And who the hell is Nancy?

Thanks for the knowledge Darryl! I'm not sure the old power supplies and the Skynet ones are plug compatible. That would indeed be an easier fix and one I'd probably jump on.

I'm expecting that the thermal fuse on the primary side has blown as I am measuring an open circuit across that side.

I wish I had the budget for an Icon, then again maybe not. Given how Avid is handling the Control 24 and PT11 (dropping compatibility), this is likely my last Avid hardware device. Too bad really.

sunburst79 08-07-2013 08:35 PM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
Why try Focusrite tech support? Their names on the part. Also there are any number of transformer rewinding services out there. Although I don't know if they rewind toroidal transformers or not.

The Dude may have some info.

Pie Hole Sound 08-09-2013 11:41 AM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst79 (Post 2071223)
Why try Focusrite tech support? Their names on the part. Also there are any number of transformer rewinding services out there. Although I don't know if they rewind toroidal transformers or not.

The Dude may have some info.

I will do this!

crizdee 08-09-2013 01:59 PM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
Hi,

Focusrite provided the preamps but the surfaces were built by Digidesign / Avid

I would expect the power connections to be the same as the skynet ones? I made a post a while back re getting mine fixed and it shows all the connections I think! It's quite straight forward really and should be obvious by looking at the 2 supplies!

On the skynet ones its generally the capacitors that go and they replace them with better ones etc


Chris

sunburst79 08-10-2013 07:36 AM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crizdee (Post 2071830)
Hi,

Focusrite provided the preamps but the surfaces were built by Digidesign / Avid

I would expect the power connections to be the same as the skynet ones? I made a post a while back re getting mine fixed and it shows all the connections I think! It's quite straight forward really and should be obvious by looking at the 2 supplies!

On the skynet ones its generally the capacitors that go and they replace them with better ones etc


Chris

I would be nice to know if the two PSUs are interchangeable. FWIW googling Toroidal turned up a transformer company in Maryland here with oversea subsidiaries. Whether or not they are related to the original manufacturer is anyone's guess.

How much more complex rewinding a toroidal transformer is compared to a regular iron core style transformer is I can't say. But there are plenty of transformer repair or rewinding services out there. However if swapping in a conventional Skynet PSU is feasible in the long run that might be a better choice.

Pie Hole Sound 08-16-2013 11:19 AM

Re: Toroid Transformer for Original Control|24
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst79 (Post 2072018)
I would be nice to know if the two PSUs are interchangeable.

Yes, this would be very helpful to know! I've searched and haven't found a definitive answer to this - are the Skynet power supplies plug compatible with the older Digidesign / Avid labeled units that came in the original Control|24's? Can I install a Skynet power supply in my old Control|24?

Thanks for any help on this people!


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