Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

Once hated Waves Update Plan WUP seems now like a very reasonable, good and customer friendly business plan.

Waves has put a lot of thought into this, ant they have experience of similar update system running for years now. In my opinion Avid should learn from Waves experience. If Waves 10k software bundle costs $300 to maintain per year then $2000 PT Software (HD license street price) should not cost more than $100 per year for people to consider it fair at least in my opinion. Also, in Waves case, if you decide not to pay the fee of update for year or two, or three you won't be let behind, once you pay the yearly fee again you are right in the boat enjoying all the features, without re-purchasing the software.

I'm personally afraid Avid is shooting itself in the foot. Sure Institutions and big companies/national TV stations etc etc pay what they need to pay to keep PT current, but persons, much like myself sitting on Accel hardware working in PT10 will ask themselves why on earth should I upgrade to HDX now.

Or then again, I might be living in a completely different reality than Avid is and they have calculated it over and over for a year or more and they know the new system keeps the company running... until Waves comes out with a DAW that opens PT sessions :D:o:(

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

Here's the thing though - studios in this position only pay peanuts to have another DAW on the system (a one off purchase of either Logic or Cubase is around the same cost or less as as one year's update in Pro Tools HD). What we will see happen is this - more and more bands, artists and producers will arrive at the studio with their Logic and Cubase projects (maybe even Sonar who knows). Over time, the non-updated PT software in the studios will get less and less use because of client demand. There's a lot of inertia in the system for sure, and the relative ease of inter-studio transfer is the biggest reason for this - but eventually even that momentum will run out if Avid don't address their fundamental problems.

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

Don't you mean Waves 5k software bundle? There is no more TDM, and nobody buys SoundGrid. So their flagship product is Mercury Native which is 5k and costs 300 a year to maintain.

But I got your point, the Pro Tools standard software isn't that expensive so Avid charges more from standard software users. HD plan however, at 599 a year, is relatively cheaper than WUP because HD systems are normally well over 10k, even entry-level HDN systems are well over 5k in comparison.

I know what you think. I myself didn't buy into Adobe CC monthly subscription, because I don't use it that often. But I still have my CS4 very much alive and hope that it won't ever die. People are thinking how much they need Pro Tools and the user base might take a hit.

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

We can't compare Avid HD systems with HW and Waves software only bundles can we, they don't update HW for the 599 do they? So that is why I said PTHD 2K vs Waves bundle 10K, and we do not know if no-one does or does not buy Soundgrid these numbers are what are in use today. Even if you say 5K Waves plan for $300 that would roughly equal to $2k PTHD to cost $120 to maintain using similar pricing and that would feel fair to me. 200 would feel OK for HD, I would even consider 300, but 599 every year??

Anyway, I just wanted to say that if Avid would follow a similar pricing route and would not kill un-updated licenses off, that should be the way to go and I believe most people would not have issues accepting this. Right now I will be buying double of everything I have for my PT10HD to keep the system alive as long as I am alive :D

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

Currently we have to, because PT HD software is not for sale without hardware. Well, except if you happen to own CPTK and older standard license, then, but until anyone can just buy PT HD license without hardware, that's the price.

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

Ok then $5000 Waves for 300/y vs $900 PT for $199/y to me that shows even more of much off the yearly price of PT is, compared to Waves WUP that is. And killing the license off if you don't pay... man... I don't see how Avid considers this fair, but they are a large corporation and they know their business inside out so who am I to second guess their decisions.

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

I'm not so sure yet what "killing" the lapsed service plan means. It might be that the license won't be upgradeable but keeps working just like before. Frankly, I have not worried about this a lot because I only have HD systems, and the new HD pricing is not yet announced.

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

Word "kiling" is not right sorry, what I meant is that if Waves would force us to re-buy Mercury if WUP runs out, that would be equal to what Avid is offering now, right? As I understand it Pro Tools HD keeps working at the version it is left at, but if you then want to get the version upgraded after the 1 year plan has ended you need to re-purchase Pro Tools HD license and... aaaah, now I get it, the PTHD license-only price is not yet announced.. well, I can tell you this my friend, it will not be cheap :D It will likely be about 1,5 to 4 times the price you will hope it to be ;) I will eat my hat if it's less than 2K. $599 per year must look like peanuts compared to the full price. I guess it's going to be just below HDN + Omni system, much like PT Vanilla is just below Eleven Rack with PT or PT with MBox Pro.

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

We don't even know whether or not it is ever possible to buy PT HD without hardware.

But imagine it should be possible this year; wouldn't a fair price point be triple standard software, because the yearly support plan is 199/599 currently? So that would mean PT HD price point at 3*899=2697 and the marketing folks' calculators would naturally produce 2999 as a result.

That'd be my best guess.

Re: Pro Tools 12 — I don't care about the release date, because...
 

Kristo - I think that the Waves/WUP comparison is valid ... but actually, what Avid has done is worse (notwithstanding that the much-maligned WUP may actually cover lots of Waves products for a flat fee).

Avid have gone from no 'support plan' of any sort (relating to updates/upgrades - only actual technical support in the past) to introducing one with this 'lapsed plan' threat all in one go. Paying for a plan to access technical support with the added benefit/value of included upgrades seems reasonable and would encourage Avid to make it worthwhile to customers (and may be attractive to serial upgraders), but locking out those who would rather pay only for required upgrades seems overly aggressive. Some may even like to hop in and out of support plans depending on circumstances.

This would be equivalent to Soundtoys, Izotope, AIR, etc. ... any plugin developer who has previously allowed reasonably-priced version upgrades, introducing a paid plan requiring continuous payment with this 'threat' of going back to square one if you do not sign up. It wouldn't be too much of a surprise if this policy resulted in lost business.

If I was to look at my applications folder and work out my monthly 'computing cost' if every developer was to charge me 25% of the purchase cost p.a., I suspect I'd be in for a bit of a shock! But Avid's rationale appears to be more wrapped up in the Everywhere and cloud components - over time, will we see an increasingly unavoidable dependency on using the Avid cloud to work with Pro Tools (the requiring membership, validated credentials, etc.) iLok protection would become redundant because one could use Pro Tools | First for free ... but couldn't do much with it without unlocking the required cloud component.