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-   -   Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=408991)

Bob Katz 03-20-2020 05:49 PM

Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
There are many obvious things weak about clip effects, but the biggest and most serious problem is that the "factory default" has low pass and high pass filters engaged and (if I recall correctly) a compressor engaged.

It's possible to select all clips in a session and neutralize the clip effects on them, if you are careful and you remember, because the clip effects display is hidden from view. But worse, every time you capture into the session (which happens a lot in film post production) you have to remember to neutralize those clip effects or you'll get DOUBLE trouble: a 20 Hz filter becomes twice as steep. This is worse than yuck. This is audio irresponsibility of the highest order that you would find in the cheapest workstation.

Fixing this issue should be Avid's highest priority.


This is simply untenable and Avid IMMEDIATELY has to release a revision.

Alternatively: Where is the clip effects factory default located? (on Windows) so we can fix this manually.

smurfyou 03-20-2020 11:52 PM

Re: Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
Hmm, the filters default to bypass on several Mac systems I run. Technically the filter section is in (green) but both individual filters are out.

Bob Katz 03-21-2020 05:46 AM

Re: Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfyou (Post 2557727)
Hmm, the filters default to bypass on several Mac systems I run. Technically the filter section is in (green) but both individual filters are out.

EDIT: Correction. Regarding the filters, it is my error. You are correct, the filters are not engaged. I did not realize the 1 and 2 buttons are engage buttons for the filters. However, what I pointed out about the dynamics section is true.

Since the dynamics do not have a Gain Reduction meter it's harder to ensure by testing that the clip effects are out. I'll test that.

The BYPASS state is remembered on an individual clip basis, which is gratifying, but it is not saved to a user preset. That would be suspenders and a belt anyway as I'm comfortable bypassing the individual filter sections.

I've also tried to get at the settings by opening a channel strip in the mixer, which has more options in the preset menu for saving and defaulting than the clip effects version of the channel strip. But these options, like "set user preset default" do not seem to carry over to the clips. This is a STUBBORN plugin!

EDIT: Perhaps the user default carries over. Need to ensure with further testing as at first it was inconsistent, which worries me.

I've also tried to rewrite "factory default" to both the root and session settings folders by making a preset called "factory default". That would be the logical approach, but it did not help.

Please - pretty please to everyone at Avid. This is a serious situation for professional mixers.

Is there some way I can have access to the settings in "factory default" and override them? Even if I have to use a tool to go inside of a bin file. Honestly, the best way to handle a "factory default" preset situation is not to hide it but to give users access to it like a regular preset!

its2loud 03-21-2020 09:14 AM

Re: Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
Where are these clips coming from? Another editor perhaps?

My clip effects do no default to an on state. I have to engage them on each clip I need them on..

If you are importing your media from someone else’s session, it’s possible they engaged the clip effects in their session and when you imported, you chose that option in the import dialog check list.

Create a new clip region in your session and see if the clip effects are engaged on that new clip. Post a screen shot if you can.

Bob Katz 03-21-2020 09:37 AM

Re: Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
Thanks for asking. These are clips that Pepe and I bounced from his Pro Tools 20 Pro Tools HD system on a Mac. I moved them to my PC system on an SSD. At several points in my editing I bounced IN THE SESSION ON A NEW TRACK to some new clips and these come up with “factory default” which has some eq bands engaged and flat but also dynamics engaged but threshold turned below 0 dB and high pass and low pass turned on.

This is dangerous bad behavior. Not trivial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by its2loud (Post 2557775)
Where are these clips coming from? Another editor perhaps?

My clip effects do no default to an on state. I have to engage them on each clip I need them on..

If you are importing your media from someone else’s session, it’s possible they engaged the clip effects in their session and when you imported, you chose that option in the import dialog check list.

Create a new clip region in your session and see if the clip effects are engaged on that new clip. Post a screen shot if you can.


The Weed 03-21-2020 10:14 AM

Re: Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
Can you make a preset with everything turned off and then, instead of Factory Default change it to using your preset instead? I don't have Clip Effects as I'm on Standard not Ultimate, but I've done this with several of my AudioSuite plug-ins.

the.engineer 03-21-2020 12:57 PM

Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
Hey Bob,

I’m sat in front of Pro Tools right now and I think I’m seeing what you’re seeing...

Three green ‘power’ indicators show that the EQ, Filters and Dynamics section are on.

However in the filter section I need to press the 1 and/or 2 buttons to actually engage the filters. Can you confirm if the 1 and/or 2 buttons on your system are engaged as default?

As soon as I change a parameter the corresponding clip then has an ‘EQ’ symbol in it. Same for the dynamics section.

If I revert all controls back to how they were then the EQ symbol disappears.

So it appears to me that although the sections are ‘On’ none of the controls are engaged or affecting the audio.

Whatever the outcome, I believe as much as you do that the clip section should be off until required.

Best,
James

smurfyou 03-21-2020 12:58 PM

Re: Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
You mention Pro Tools 20, is this a pre-release version that could have different behavior?

Not to be flippant but there are two enable points with the filter section. There is the master Enable / In switch, the "power" button that lights up green. Then each filter has it's own enable, I think it's "1" for HPF AND "2" for LPF. The number itself highlights or dims depending on the enable state. Those default off for me. Are those defaulting on? That would be a big issue.

Bob Katz 03-21-2020 03:38 PM

Re: Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Weed (Post 2557784)
Can you make a preset with everything turned off and then, instead of Factory Default change it to using your preset instead? I don't have Clip Effects as I'm on Standard not Ultimate, but I've done this with several of my AudioSuite plug-ins.

EDIT: My initial reaction was that the user default function was not available but if you jump through hoops you can set a user default. See later in this thread.

Bob Katz 03-21-2020 04:43 PM

Re: Urgent: Serious issue with clip effects
 
Hey, James. You actually alerted me just now that the 1 and 2 buttons are ENGAGE buttons for the filters and they are out in the factory default. But the dynamics section is in and both comp/limit and gate are in.

Attached is an image of factory default:

https://i852.photobucket.com/albums/...%20default.png

Attached is an image of "BK Neutral":

https://i852.photobucket.com/albums/...%20Neutral.png

If the user jumps through hoops and engages the Avid Channel strip in the mixer and chooses "set user default" and makes the clip effects default to the session folder, then it appears that new clips will get the user default. This behavior was inconsistent for me but I think after kicking the tires I got it to be consistent. Needless to say that makes me nervous. Notice that "Set User Default" is not available in clip effects. This is a big oversight.

And clearly Avid needs to neutralize the Factory Default ASAP, even if this means a maintenance release.

Bob


Quote:

Originally Posted by the.engineer (Post 2557797)
Hey Bob,

I’m sat in front of Pro Tools right now and I think I’m seeing what you’re seeing...

Three green ‘power’ indicators show that the EQ, Filters and Dynamics section are on.

However in the filter section I need to press the 1 and/or 2 buttons to actually engage the filters. Can you confirm if the 1 and/or 2 buttons on your system are engaged as default?

As soon as I change a parameter the corresponding clip then has an ‘EQ’ symbol in it. Same for the dynamics section.

If I revert all controls back to how they were then the EQ symbol disappears.

So it appears to me that although the sections are ‘On’ none of the controls are engaged or affecting the audio.

Whatever the outcome, I believe as much as you do that the clip section should be off until required.

Best,
James



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