Preamp and mic selection

[Joz]

Wich mic and pre combination would you use?
I'm tracking 8 tracks of drums (well 6 cause I don't have the tom mics yet) I'm tracking to HD.
This is what I have for drums:

Pres
8- Neve 1073
2- Neve 1081
2- Avalon 737sp
2- API 512c

Mics
2- Neumann M147, or 2- AKG 114EB
2- AKG C12vr
1- Shure sm57
1- Shure KSM32
1- AKG c1000
1- AKG d112, or Sure beta 52

I was thinking using the 57 and c1000 for top and bottom snare, and the KSM32 for a mono room, but I can't decide what to use for overheads. I want to try Recorderman's technique. And I need help with the preamp combinations. I always work with what I have, but this time I have more than I need!

[Jules]

OH of 3 mic technique 2- AKG C12vr Neve
1073

Inside kick of 3 mic technique 1- AKG d112 Neve 1073

(spot options) Snare shell 1- sm 57, outer kick KSM32, 114- toms -

147's - Room duties, cardiod pointing at far walls (1 foot away)

Throw the AKG C1000 0n HiHat or ride just for kicks..

Use the Avalon instead of a brick to keep the bass drum from moving forward!

images/icons/grin.gif

API on toms if you run out of Neves

[tlester]

Well, Jules. A Neve 1073 is a pre, not a mic.

Joz -

You didn't mention what kind of music this was going to be for. Is it Metal, jazz, bluegrass, hip-hop?

I try to take a pretty simple approach to mic'ing drums. Don't over do it. I'm going to assume a rock/pop kit. With that assumption and without knowing the drummer, room, song, etc., here's what I'd do:

C12's for overheads. I like to stick'em capsule to capsul like this "\/". Run these through a pair of 1073's.

SM-57 on snare through API (no bottom snare mic). I love the API's on Drums... wish you had more!!!

AKG D112 in kick or really close to outer head through API.

C1000 about 3 feet from the kick level with the upper rim of the kick. Run through the 1073 and if you have a good compressor, smash this with a pretty quick release.

The M147's should make good room mic's. I use M49's all the time, and I understand the M147's are modern versions with similar sound. My first reaction is the 1073's, but I'd experiment with the Avalon's on these or the 1081's.

I'd snag some 421's or Sm57's for the Tom's OR... if you can get yourslef some Milab DC96's. They sound great on tom's (and snare). Use the 1073's on tom's.

I hope that helps. Don't forget to listen. If a combination above doesn't sound good, then change it. Use your ears!!! You have a really nice set of pre's!

-t

[Jules]

tlester -"Well, Jules. A Neve 1073 is a pre, not a mic."

???????

I own a pair of 1073's (and 4 x API pre's)

Get yourself some reading glasses!

images/icons/grin.gif

[etherize]

yeh jules you should really study up some more before posting images/icons/grin.gif

[5down1up]

images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

nice setup

[Jules]

Were cool now...

BTW - MASSIVE tip here!

With such a 3 mic trick (my current session = 2 x M149's & D12 into Helios mic pre/eq's) after a great tracking session, I was furious with myself for neglecting to pull out some of the padding in in the kick drum. The drum I had was too high pitched and 'choked' (despite a Royer 121 adding some fatness). So I figured it was an ideal time to try out a technique I had read about.

Set up digi plug in 'signal generator' on a mono Aux track, below it put a gate plug in with an external key, pick up bus 64 on the key input of the gate, set up a pre fade send to bus 64 (set it at 'o')

Set the signal generator to produce a sine wave at about 45 hz

Tweak the gate to open the sub tone to taste...

Bingo!

Instant sub tone on the kick drum!

This is an old trick, but it was a first for me, (I must be the only moron left on the planet trying to use just the mic sounds in recordings!)

Experienced users please share refinements!

images/icons/smile.gif

[seeds]

We all know Jules is a gear slut images/icons/cool.gif

Kick Drum: Use invert ns10 woofer on the outer kick for some nice low end thud thru an API blended with D112 / Neve on the inside off the beater.

Jules, have you tried Ren Bass? Just wondering ; I've had decent results with that but like you hadn't tried the sine wave thing. I gotta do that..!

PS: I see I need a few more of the above listed pre's...if anyone needs a procontrol be sure to read my buy/sell post ! images/icons/grin.gif

[Jules]

I gotta see if that NS10 trick is better than the Royer 121.... I bet it is...

images/icons/shocked.gif

[tlester]

Ahh... and next thing to try, is the same technique, but with a white noise generator and the snare!

When you work on a lot of "split" session, where you don't track, but just mix, those little tricks can be God sent! Unfortunately, a good majority of engineers out there these days have no idea how to cut good tracks images/icons/wink.gif

I'm glad you were able to "save" it, Jules.

-t

[Joz]

It's a Rock band, I want to achieve a fat drum sound in your face, its going to be tracked in a big hardwood floor living room with high ceilings. I've had good results in the past with less good mic and pre's, I've never had this many neves.

I just found out that I could have neve 31105 pres. What do you think of them compared to 1073's??

Joz

[PeeTee]

AKG C414EB x2 overheads - 1073 x2 (I'm assuming it's the C414, since there is no AKG 114 model)
Neumann M147 x2 rooms - 1073 x2
AKG C12vr mono room - 1081
Shure SM57 top snare - 512
Shure KSM32 bottom snare - 737sp
AKG C1000 HH - 1073
AKG D112 inside kick - 512
AKG C12vr kick tunnel - 1081
Senn 421 toms x3 (rental) - 1073 x3

I rock!

[tlester]

Sorry Jules.... I assumed that you thought a 1073 was a Mic due to the way your stated your suggestions:

"OH of 3 mic technique 2- AKG C12vr Neve 1073"

I read that as using 3 mic's in the over heads. When you only listed 3 objects, I assumed you thought the 1073 was the third mic. After reading it again, I realize now that you are refering to mic'ing the kit as a 3 mic combo, the TWO over heads being the C12's.

Sorry... didn't mean to insult your equipment knowlege if that's the way it came across.

-t

[Giovanni2]

Originally posted by Jules:
BTW - MASSIVE tip here!

Set up digi plug in 'signal generator' on a mono Aux track, below it put a gate plug in with an external key, pick up bus 64 on the key input of the gate, set up a pre fade send to bus 64 (set it at 'o')

Set the signal generator to produce a sine wave at about 45 hz

Tweak the gate to open the sub tone to taste...

Bingo!

Instant sub tone on the kick drum!

images/icons/smile.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can also use this trick to add some "snare" sound to a snare. But instead of a 45hz sine wave use white noise triggered off the snare.

I just did this to a rock ballad where the snare was to "dry" sounding and it made it sound so much better.

--Gio

[Gil Parente]

First of all, what a kick butt setup!!!
It all depends on what type of music you're doing, but than again, can't go too wrong with your set up..
Overheads and Room: use the tubes, 147 and c12. I would go with 147 for OH... and c12 for rooms. put them through the 1073..
Kick: D112 thru API, stick ksm32 outside of kick with tunel made out of blankets
Snare: 57 thru 1073+ 414 bottom thru 737
toms: rent some 421s thru 1073
Hats: 414 thru 1081
and the rest is history..
take care...
Gil

[Jules]

White noise! How cool! How 80's!

What next? A Clap Trap?

no seriously, AMAZING!

I personally hate undersnare mic's and the garbage that comes in on them..

Woo hooo!

White noise here I come!

Thanks!

P.S Gil's suggestion above is a good vibe, full pad on HH + full bass roll off. IMHO