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View Full Version : Oxford EQ - 200GBP off ....for powercore !


adam_w1
05-29-2002, 12:37 AM
I've just seen that the powercore version of the Oxford EQ is out...and a good 200 GBP cheaper than the TDM version. Why exactly do we get so shafted as TDM users ? Presumably, there might be some sort of economy of scale involved with a "hobbyist" base, but I'm still keen to hear from the manufacturers of multi-platform plugins. Anyone ?

images/icons/frown.gif

peteri
05-29-2002, 01:56 AM
Here, here - I was about to make the same post.

Waves are the same, twice the price for TDM - whilst I'm prepared to pay within reason, I think the Sony is particularly annoying, as both are written for DSP cards.

I too would love to hear some justification - companies like Mcdsp that just charge one price for all are worth a lot of kudos for doing that.

Pete

Dutchmuzik
05-29-2002, 06:28 AM
I had this same question awhile ago for NI. I purchased the standalone version of Battery and Pro-52 last year. When they released the Protools edition I was very excited and thought it would be a small upgrade fee.
Instead of $999 I could purchase it for $900. This is insane, it works with direct connect in ProTools and all they did was make it more compatable by including support for RTAS and HTDM. I feel taken advantage of every time I buy a plug-in and the VST/MAS version is half price. Does this mean they sound half as good ? Do these software companies have to pay some outragous fee to Digidesign to use their code, someone explain this.

PiratePost
05-29-2002, 06:36 AM
Possibly a large license fee that Digi gets on each Plug-In?

peteri
05-29-2002, 08:26 AM
I don't know - but I don't think this can be the case.

I reckon it's one of two things (in order)

1) It's perceived that the TDM market will stand paying more for the plugins

2) If you've developed for native first, there is a possibility that you'll have to recode considerably for the motorola dsp.

HTDM should make a mockery of point 2), I don't believe that there is a TDM license cost, simply because some companies like Mcdsp and Bomb Factory charge the same for all plugins, whereas some like Waves and Sony charge double (or near it).

So that just leaves point 1) - annoyingly!

Sony is probably the worst in my mind, as the plugin is damm expensive to begin with (and I'm not starting an is it worth it debate - although I have my opinions), and coded for dsp a) in the oxford desk b) for tdm and now c) for the powercore.

Now even if you discount a), b and c should still be at a par? I bet if the Sony retailed the same as the Powercore version, they'd have doubled their sales. But then this might have (in their mind) underpriced it, as I'm sure there's some cachet that it's the most expensive 'high end' eq going.

Surely?

Pete

blairl
05-29-2002, 08:38 AM
I once asked WAVES why they charged more for TDM based plug-in's and I got back 2 answers.

1) It is harder to develop code for TDM (56 bit motorola chips) than it is for Native (32 bit floating point). So more time and effort has gone into the TDM plugs

2) Since some of the TDM plugs use 48 bit precision they do sound better.

Whether or not this is absolutely correct I don't know, but that's the answer I got.

Another note: I was under the impression that TC electronics also used the motorola chips. Does anyone know if the TC Powercore is a motorola based product? If it is then the code may be more similar to TDM than to Native aplications and I don't know why Sony would charge more?

burningbusch
05-29-2002, 11:07 AM
It's whatever the market will bear.

With a base TDM core system at $8,000 (retail), marketing a plugin that retails for let's say $500 is reasonable. Compare that to any of the standard native DAWs which sell for ~10% of the TDM price (around $800 retail). Now the plugin sells for 60% of the price that the entire DAW costs. That's a much tougher pill for the buyer to swallow. Also consider that DP/Logic/Cubase come with dozens of usable plugins already.

If you buy the argument that pricing is determined by complexity and amount of time it takes to program the software, then if native DAWs can be profitably sold for $800, single plugins should sell for something in the neighborhood of $10 - $20. Considering the complexity of DAWs with audio recording/editing/mixing, MIDI sequencing, notation, plus dozens of plugins included.

Rather, determining the right price for a product is the attempt to maximize the revenue that can be generated by the particular product. If a company, through market/competitive research, figures that they will sell the following number of units at the various price points, then the best price for the product appears to be $500.

20 @ $2,000 ($40,000)
200 @ $1,000 ($200,000)
5,000 @ $500 ($250,000)
20,000 @ $100 ($200,000)

Also note that with software, fixed costs of goods almost negligable (a few dollars for CD, manual and packaging or virtually nothing for Internet download).

I don't buy into the company-line rationalizations from Waves and others. That's not generally how pricing is determied. Parts for a Mercedes cost more than the same parts for a Ford. How can McDonalds sell hamburgers on Wed/Sun for $.49 but during the rest of the week they're $.89?

Busch.

McMasters
05-30-2002, 12:26 AM
And why are parts for my super-duper Corvette so expensive?

DERP!!!???

I guess it is gouging to some extent. But if you can afford the Lexus LS400, you can afford the more expensive parts. Se La Vie
Big Boys, Big Toys, Big Prices.

Hey if everybody could afford a ProTools rig, who would come to our studios?

KamaSutra77
05-31-2002, 07:04 PM
plugs are overated.

burningbusch
05-31-2002, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by dunedan:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by burningbusch:
It's whatever the market will bear.

...will sell the following number of units at the various price points, then the best price for the product appears to be $500.

20 @ $2,000 ($40,000)
200 @ $1,000 ($200,000)
5,000 @ $500 ($250,000)
20,000 @ $100 ($200,000)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is an argument for the $100 price tag. Having 15,000 more units in circulation is the best advertising possible. If I were a developer of plug ins I'd want my plug on as many systems as possible - even if it meant a bit less $.<hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Possibly. But the developer might also need to add support/adminstrative headcount to support the additional 15,000 installations.

Busch.

dunedan
06-01-2002, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by burningbusch:
It's whatever the market will bear.

...will sell the following number of units at the various price points, then the best price for the product appears to be $500.

20 @ $2,000 ($40,000)
200 @ $1,000 ($200,000)
5,000 @ $500 ($250,000)
20,000 @ $100 ($200,000)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is an argument for the $100 price tag. Having 15,000 more units in circulation is the best advertising possible. If I were a developer of plug ins I'd want my plug on as many systems as possible - even if it meant a bit less $.