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beech
05-17-2002, 11:56 AM
Ok, so we have picked the best bar to loop but it's tempo is too slow. Timestretch will not work on this occasion. Does the audio have to be exported or can this be done within P/Tools.

Thanks,
Daire

Tweakhead
05-17-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by beech:
Ok, so we have picked the best bar to loop but it's tempo is too slow. Timestretch will not work on this occasion. Does the audio have to be exported or can this be done within P/Tools.

Thanks,
Daire<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have TDM ProTools then you can use Beat Detective which is integrated into TDM systems only.

I am not in front of my rig right now so this is from memory. (? indicates not sure of the term used)

1. Select your loop.
2. Hit Command+i to identify the the start and end measures of the loop. (This will detect the exact tempo)
3. Open Beat Detective.
4. Click ‘Capture Selection’
5. Click ‘Analyze’
6. Move the slider until Beat Detective recognizes enough transients for you.
7. At the left of Beat Detective select the ‘Separate Regions’(?) button.
8. At the right of Beat Detective click ‘Separate’.
9. Your loop should now be separated into regions.
10. Select ‘Change Tempo’ from the Midi(?) menu.
11. Type in your new tempo. Press Return key.
12. At the left of Beat Detective select the ‘Quantize’ tab.
13. At the right of Beat Detective click ‘Quantize’. The regions should snap to the new tempo grid.
14. At the left of Beat Detective select the ‘Smoothing’ tab.
15. Choose either fill or fill+crossfade. Click ‘Fill gaps’ (?)

Voila. you should be done. If you are not happy then use multiple undo to backstep several steps and enter a new tempo or whatever part you think you need to redo.

Then Consolidate the final selection once you are happy.

Tweakhead.

beech
05-20-2002, 02:54 AM
Thanks Tweakhead for that. However, This would mean having to quantize the loop. I may not want to do that as it already feels good. I've since learned that there is a plugin to do this (Wave Mechanics I think) but I was hoping not to have to cough up $500.

Daire

Robert U
05-20-2002, 04:32 AM
Actually beatdetective doesn't quantize in a way that moves audio dead right on the grid if you don't want to. If you want you can maintain the original feel but in a new tempo. This is set with the "stronger" parameter in conform. If it's set to 0% it will keep the original feeling.

If you are not that familiar with beatdetective you could always try Pitch'n Time from:

www.serato.com (http://www.serato.com)

You can download a demoversion that will last for 10 days or so. You also have, as you mentioned, Wavemechanics timestretcher called Speed which is quite similar to Pitch'n Time but not really as good, IMO.

-Robert

beech
05-20-2002, 06:09 AM
Thanks for the help.

Daire

Tweakhead
05-20-2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by beech:
Thanks Tweakhead for that. However, This would mean having to quantize the loop. I may not want to do that as it already feels good. I've since learned that there is a plugin to do this (Wave Mechanics I think) but I was hoping not to have to cough up $500.

Daire<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought that you said timestretching would not work in your original post.

beech
05-21-2002, 07:35 AM
"I thought that you said timestretching would not work in your original post."

Today I quickly recorded a one bar hihat from Performer set at 100bpm and recorded it to PTools set also at 100bpm. Then I changed the PTool tempo down to 70 and placed the bar of hat on the barline. Then I stretched it to fit the new bar. It seemed to do it but I could not say that each beat lined up exactly. However, I was sorry the I did not use something more abrupt then a hihat because it became very 'spread' (and indeed unusable!) So maybe a dedicated plugin would be better from a sound quality point of view.

Philthy
05-22-2002, 12:57 AM
For 30-bpm tempo changes, I'd suggest tracking in the ballpark of your goal tempo, or else expect something unlike a natural result. You might say something like an unnatural result if your glass is half-empty all the time. BTW, how are you recording a DP part in ProTools? It just makes me suspicious that you're using MIDI, in which case for gad's sake slow down the midi track.

beech
05-22-2002, 08:13 AM
Philthy
I was only using midi generate the click for the test. I've heard that there is a product out there that might give a "natural result" even over 20 or 30 bpm. I wonder is it Acid (the program).

Daire

Philthy
05-23-2002, 01:50 AM
Acid (for PC) does a great job of on-the-fly timestretching. At a 30-bpm shift you will notice artifacts in the sound, and it will still tend to smear notes like you noticed w/ the hat.

There's a program out there that cuts up the audio by transient, then converts the part to midi, and then allows you to change the tempo of the midi which is triggering the samples of the original part. I think it's Reason that works like this, but I don't use it- someone else want to chime in?

Still, a 30 bpm change is asking a lot of anything. I don't know how Reason fills in the gaps but that's a lot of space.

lwilliam
05-26-2002, 10:53 AM
You can try Recycle (abt $140). It chops up the beats by detecting the transients. You then change the tempo to whatever, export as aiff or wav, and import. When slowing the tempo down drastically (30bpm, for instance), it adds a "tail" using the last few ms of each slice to extend the sound and eliminate gaps. It works really well for 15-20bpm changes.

It also works directly with Soft SampleCell (exports in that format. It then can create a midi file to play the samples back from within PT.

I think Propellerheads has a demo version to try out...

There are also loop CDs by Ilio called "groove control", which operate on a similar (but proprietary) principle.

beech
05-27-2002, 04:27 AM
Thanks LW. Will it work over multiple drumtracks at the same time. If so, I'll give it a shot.

Daire