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View Full Version : aligning tracks in LE to compensate for plugin dly


alex obradovic
09-18-2003, 11:39 AM
I am puzzled about what should I do about the delay that various plugins introduce. For instance if I look at the delay counter on my aux tracks, it shows 0. However I know I am pushing 2 or more tracks through that aux, so the plugins must be introducing at least some delay to those original tracks? On the other hand when I place plugins onto the tracks themselves, then some plugins cause delay of 0, and others cause larger delays, such as 340 samples on some wave plugins. I am not sure what to do with this delay info. First of all is this info accurate? (I am picking it up from the square that toggles between vol, peak, and dly while you control+click on it) If it is accurate, how come aux tracks show no delay, and regular tracks show some delay for plugins? Once I see this delay am I supposed nudge tracks to compensate for it? It just sounds like a lot of maintenance, especially if I change plugins a lot. Any suggestions relating to this are welcome!

MidnightFlyer
09-18-2003, 11:36 PM
Congrats on your first post. I'm sure someone will give you a very good answer, but I'll just say that if it sounds right, it is right. I don't think you have to worry about plugin delays unless it sounds bad and you can notice it.

Calvin
09-19-2003, 08:05 AM
The number of tracks you put threw a pluggin is not as important as which pluggin you are putting them threw. Each pluggin has it's own amount of track delay that it adds. Sometimes this amount of delay changes depending on what order you put the pluggins on the track and I'm not sure what else because sometimes I can use the exact same pluggins on a track and get a different amount of delay.

Usually I don't pay much attention to the delay unless it is very short sounds, or very time dependant like drums. I don't usually worry about it if it is just guitar or vocal. However why don't you just wait till your completely done with the project, then go threw and adjust for the delay caused by the pluggins so your not doing that the entire time while mixing.

Will Russell
09-24-2003, 04:26 AM
My understanding is that RTAS plugins are automatically delay compensated.

Bender
09-24-2003, 06:44 AM
I have often wondered about this.
Do you guys adjust everything. At work on the HD system it's not an issue and at home I do small acoustic projects and never had to, but I'm curious as to whether this is an issue or not.

Calvin
09-24-2003, 11:26 AM
Unfortunately only a few of the RTAS pluggins can operate without any delay. Many of the waves pluggins from the gold bundle operate with out any latency. However the ones that take the most extensive power such as the waves mastering bundle, do not. Of course there is a really easy way to check the delay. In pro-tools 5.3.1, there was a black box above the fader that usually displayed the fader level on the track. In Pro-tools 6.1, they moved it to the bottom of the track. Well by holding cntrl (I don't know what it is on mac sorry)and clicking on the box it will cycle between 3 diffent values. One is the fader level, peak level of track, and the last is the delay caused by pluggins. Simply change your nudge to that number of samples and move the tracks back in time. Easy

I only ever worry about the delay when I have very time sensitive files, usually only drums. Most other instruments you couldn't hear a 50 sample delay if you wanted to.

allstaar
09-25-2003, 10:54 AM
I spend much time getting the best feeling takes from the "talent" during the recording sessions. I certainly don't want proccessing messing with the relationship of those takes to the track in any way.

I often use Waves Renaissance Vox plugin. This introduces a 65 sample delay ( if memory serves me ). This I can definitely hear as a laziness in the part. Doing the math makes this hard to beleive as 65 samples equates to a 0.001469 of a second delay, but nonetheless I hear it.

I think as recording engineer you should not tolerate what are essentialy distortions of the multitrack if you can avoid them.

Calvin
09-25-2003, 01:10 PM
Well if you can hear it then by all means fix it, but if you ask me, I think your hearing the change from what the plugin actually does to the vocal, not the change in time. The removal of transients and dynamics from the vocal would make it sound less lively. Why not try using the Ren Comp, or better yet the c1 comp to see if this helps that feeling of latency at all.

allstaar
09-26-2003, 01:06 AM
Sticking with RenVox as an example, the plugin maintains it's latency even if you bypass it. So I was not being influenced by the effect of the gain change. If you think you don't hear 65 samples, then try this;

Get a vocal track and copy it so you have two identical tracks.

Insert RenVox on one of the tracks and then bypass the plugin.

Play both tracks together.

What you hear is beyond the realms of phasing and is heard as a noticable timing delay. Good singers work carefully with the timing of words and sometimes deliver them with a rhythmic accuracy that sits them very tightly with the rhythm track, rap being an obvious example. 65 samples is certainly enough to throw this timing off as I think my above example shows.

Why would you not compensate for plugin latency ? It's simple, quick and you can rest assured that your tracks are playing back as intended.

marcusb
10-16-2003, 09:22 PM
I often use Waves Renaissance Vox plugin. This introduces a 65 sample delay ( if memory serves me ). This I can definitely hear as a laziness in the part. Doing the math makes this hard to beleive as 65 samples equates to a 0.001469 of a second delay, but nonetheless I hear it.




Your math is right. 65 samples at 44.1k equates to 1.47ms of delay. Think of it another way, if we take the speed of sound at 331.45m/sec in average conditions 65 samples of delay is the equivalent to the mic being 48 centimetres or 1.5 feet away from the singer.

You must have super human hearing to hear delay.

Cheers,
Marcus