Low level mix ?

[bassmac]

If you were to master a mix with really low levels, whould you put a L1 as the first insert to bring the level up before you get started with the comps and stuff? If that’s correct, what ceiling setting would you use? I would also assume no attenuation at this stage(?)

[8mmOverdose]

Originally posted by bassmac:
If you were to master a mix with really low levels, whould you put a L1 as the first insert to bring the level up before you get started with the comps and stuff? If that’s correct, what ceiling setting would you use? I would also assume no attenuation at this stage(?)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if you need to add comps, eq, etc to the mix, do that before you use the L1. these fx usually will add volume. make sure you do not clip the levels on the way into the L1. the L1 should be your last step. try the "16 bit final master- highest" preset and make minor adjustments from there. i generally set the ceiling at -0.1.

[bassmac]

Thanks for the reply...but I may have not been clear enough. I'm not talking about getting the finished levels up. (I also use the L1+ as my last insert - as you described) What I mean is getting the levels up before you begin, so you're hitting the comp with a full signal. Does this matter? Or do you just slap the comp on with whatever input level you have, and make your gain/output adjustments there?

[lamp]

You could Audiosuite Normalize each track to bring them up. Not sure if thats the way to go though.

[8mmOverdose]

Or do you just slap the comp on with whatever input level you have, and make your input/output adjustments there?[/QB]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">usually yes, however i always have a good signal going to the comp and will not need to raise the levels more than a few db. how low are the levels on the tracks you need to master? is re-mixing at a higher level an option? the L1 will definitely raise the levels, but i would be concerned about adding noise using it first in the chain.

[radioface]

bassmac:

i have heard of two L1's being used in your scenario. I think it's going to take some serious trial and error to get the best signal to noise ratio prior to hitting your final L1+.

I would suggest using the analog channel in this situation. If you do not have that plug in, try a reg L1 (get your peaks to -3 to -4db) followed by eq(should you need), and then insert a C4 to smooth it out with the electro setting. After this set your L1+ to where you usually would and use the output control of the C4 to adjust your signal...

Good Luck!

[bassmac]

I think I’ll do some experimenting on this.

This is something I’ve always wondered about thou... If you don’t have a strong input going to a comp, you really have to pull down the threshold to get any action going. I don’t know if there’s anything wrong with that or not, but in regards to gain staging, it just *seems* like it would better to have a solid level to begin with - before you hit the comp.

Just a thought... thanks for the ideas. images/icons/smile.gif

BTW: Love that Electro setting! images/icons/cool.gif

[radioface]

hey bassmac,

another thought ~ if you have not done this already...

might try to record the whole mix to a stereo track...or bounce - whatever you prefer. Then raise the track volume to +6 db on that audio file before it hits the Master...then see if your comps behave more predictably without dropping your threshold to the ground floor.

A benefit to this sould be preserving the original signal to noise ratio which may give you greater articulation at the EQ and C4 stage...

Have fun...

[lwilliam]

Originally posted by bassmac:
...If you don’t have a strong input going to a comp, you really have to pull down the threshold to get any action going. I don’t know if there’s anything wrong with that or not, but in regards to gain staging, it just *seems* like it would better to have a solid level to begin with - before you hit the comp.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first thought would be the same, but I THINK this is leftover thinking from analog days. Gain staging isn't as important in digital (in this case anyways) because if you normalize the file via audiosuite, then you've just added numbers to the values in the waveform. That's just what lowering the threshhold would do on the L1.

It's kind of like taking a track and increasing it's GAIN by 4db using the A/S Gain plugin. You could get the exact same result, mathematically, buy raising the fader 4db. It's just math.

I may be wrong, but I think it's OK to run the threshhold pretty low. I've had mine as low as -13 or -14db on the L1 before.

Now maybe if you're running it near the bottom of it's range that would be different - at least the leftover analog guy in me THINKS that would be different.

Why don't you try it both ways and let us know if it SOUNDS any different. You can always keep a spare copy of the pre-audiosuite track and restore it if necessary.