help with cymbals when limiting overheads

[village1]

Putting heavy limiting on overheads to get the snare and kick to really pop. The only problem is that the cymbals are going crazy with phasing and increased volume. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John

[Tweakhead]

(Phase problems) Are you using analog limiters or plug-ins? Check any delays incurred by plug-ins and compensate for them. Check that the mics in the original recording were in phase. If you are using analog devices make sure that the XLR cables are not inducing a phase reversal.

(Cymbs) Try using comp/lim sidechains triggered from the K+S or gates triggered from the K+S. If the drummer is playing a lot a cymbals across the K+S then you're pretty much stuck with what he played. If this is an ongoing problem with this drummer then I would suggest that this is a situation that should be addressed during the recording session. If it is a mixdown problem that you are trying to fix then the only real solution to cleanly enhance the K+S is to retrigger them with some samples from an exposed place in the song. Try the SoundReplacer plug-in.

[This message has been edited by Tweakhead (edited February 12, 2001).]

[Tweakhead]

deleted

[This message has been edited by Tweakhead (edited February 12, 2001).]

[Corey Shay]

If you're getting too much drums in your overhead tracks, try moving the overhead mics a little further away and make sure that they are outside the radius of the kit itself. Meaning don't put overhead mics in between cymbals, put them above or to the outsides so you get the whole picture. Also it helps if you can get the drummer to move his cymbals higher so they aren't on top of his drums. It helps a lot to get more separation. Then afterwards eq is your best friend. Filter the bottom end out and give them a rise somewhere between 2k and 12k depending on how you want the cymbals to sound. Find the eq spot where there is too much snare and give it a little dip also. But if you miced the drums well you usually don't need to take a dip.

[Gulliver]

Corey is right, placement is important. You might even be able to stop phase cancellation just by moving things around a little. If farther doesn't work, try closer.

[KamaSutra77]

Ive had a hell of a time getting "that " drum sound. I tried inside outside close far ect etc set ups to no avail. But the other day I tried A x crossed pair ( coincident pair?) Right over my head as I played ( aimed at the kit left and right) witha sm 57 under the snare This gave me a pretty good balance and a good perspective of the kit, very close to what I hear when playing. try it it seems to work, cymbals I guess are just a pain in the ass, i cant decide to ditch them and try new or what to get those golden shimmers.

[Jules]

"Putting heavy limiting on overheads to get the snare and kick to really pop"

er... that is a wierd statement / concept....

http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/shocked.gif

Compress the kick and snare mic's to make em pop,

http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/mad.gif

then compress the overheads to get a nice cymbal/room compression..

http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Jules

[ProTools4]

Hi Jules, Hi all.

It is weird but!

If you have a non ported low-ply (shell) kick that isnt dampended to death in a good room and great snare with low ply heads, that is in the good spot of a happening room then you can think about comp/limiting the OV's to get a good sound.

Oh and then the mics should be at least 2.5 feet from the crash and rides or it will suck and pump the kick /snare out when you hit cymbols.

Listen to Areosmith "Get A Grip"
Eat the Rich and other song the over heads
sound like there in anther zip code. So the source audio going into the comp. is a even drum mix and there is alot of room sound living inbetween them drum peaks and the noise floor.

Did we mention it would help if the drummer could play? :-)


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"Natorious" Tad Banzuelo
Rockin' SoCal
[email protected]

[ProTools4]

I almost forgot.

Please God!

"Could you send me a drummer that can take the beater off the friggen' head so the drum could ring."...... "Lord, Pleaze For give me for endulgence with Sans Amp"

Amen!

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"Natorious" Tad Banzuelo
Rockin' SoCal
[email protected]

[COCO]

tired of the drummer bashing. excuses, excuses....

[ProTools4]

Wait a minute.
Im a drummer if you cant tell?


------------------
"Natorious" Tad Banzuelo
Rockin' SoCal
[email protected]

[COCO]

we're a self loathing bunch, i guess. i can only add that i tried to rent some coles ribbons for my last drum tracking sessions and couldn't get them. the royers were not available either. was inspired by jules' setup. had to go with the old 451s in x/y to a drawmer 1961 eq. not what i wanted, but ok. must book that stuff way ahead here in ny.
-COCO

[Jules]

Use the one Royer SF12 ribbon, label down above kit, pliars with HF eq into an SSL or alan smart, prepare for drummers worship.
http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif
Jules

[MMazurek]

Also try putting the crashes about 4-6 feet left and right of the kit. The drummer has to be quick with grabbing new sticks, but it retains an excellent stereo image. (also stops the drummer from coming in to soon with the crash) http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

[PeeTee]

How about not using overheads altogether and comp'ing the snot outta the room mics instead? Double mic the snare and compress the snot outta one channel. Mix, fold, manipulate.

[This message has been edited by PeeTee (edited February 16, 2001).]