Pro Tools "to go" - how should I do it?

[Jim Clark]

I occasionally need to record interviews, etc. Mostly mono stuff. Sometimes stereo. So, for this type of situation is there a portable PT rig I could use - possibly a powerbook or something? Any body doing this?
I would still take DAT as a backup. But it sure would be nice to just go record, come back and get to work without having to transfer stuff.

TIA,

Jim

[Jim Clark]

Bumping to the top.

Is anyone recording in the field direct to disc? If so, how?

[JKD99]

I've read articles and seen stuff on the User Stories section about "Portable ProTools For Star Wars" about a guy that put together a portable PT rig w/ a G3 Powerbook and Expansion Chassis to do ADR on the last Star Wars movie w/Gallery ADR Studio software. Seemed to work fine in the article, but then I just read in the DUC that Digi doesn't support any such configuration, so....Hope this helps.

------------------
Joe Milner
Puget Sound
Los Angeles

[This message has been edited by JKD99 (edited June 23, 2000).]

[Eric Bazilian]

If all you are doing is simple documentation (especially something as simple as interviews) I can't imagine why one would even consider dealing with the potential headaches of portable DAW as opposed to a good DAT recorder (e.g. the Tascam) and a good mic. It is certainly easy enough to dump the material in digitally when back at home base. If, on the other hand, you need to be doing instant editing, then perhaps it's worth it. But otherwise I'd hang with the DAT.

------------------
Eric Bazilian/The Mousetrap
"Music Is Good"

[Jim Clark]

Thanks for the input, Joe & Eric.
After I posted this I also read some of the powerbook threads elsewhere on the DUC.
It's true that DAT in the field is pretty simple and reliable - arguably a very good reason to just keep on doing it that way...
Maybe I'm just being seduced by the idea of even more portablity in the field and direct interface (no waiting) back at the studio. If however, this is still in the "not supported" category, or the "somtimes it may work" category, I am definitely going to wait awhile.

Regards,

Jim

[Sean Halley]

Check out the Deva, if you're serious about this money-wise, as it seems you are. It's kind of like a disc-based Nagra...

Sean H

[imi]

Hi, digi "not supported" doesn't necessarily mean "won't work" or "sometimes works", but simply "not tested" and "not our fault if you waste your money on the wrong set up" http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif - fair enough!
If you can afford the risk, it might just always do what you want it to.
imi

[eldog]

I use a PowerBook G3 (1999 model w/SCSI or Lombard) and Pro Tools 4.2.3 with Power Mix 1.1.3. This gives me 16 tracks fo audio @ 16 bit. For input I use SwissSonic Studio D USB audio interface. (48K @ 20bit). This unit has 2 Microphone inputs with switchable phantom power, phase inversion switch and insert jacks. It also has 4 Stereo line inputs and 2 high impedance instrument inputs. On the digital end it has S/PDIF optical and coaxial digital input/output. All fo under $600.00 if you shop it.

I have been using this set up for field recording of all types (dialog, foley & music). I transfer the files (ethernet) to my G4/500 with Mix Plus (3 farm cards & Sample Cell II+) for editing. I have the Option AV (Avid ABVB & Janis compression card) so I can import Avid video files (OMF) and at no time during a project do I leave the SCSI domain. Fast and easy.

The only bummer is cost of the notebook, ouch, and the fact that I had to device a way to keep the PowerBooks lid proped slightly open while under my arm. The PowerBook dosen't work with ProTools when the lid is closed.

For the price, a TC DAT is hard to beat but, belive me, most people "trip out" when I show up with a bag under each arm and a boom mic in my hand. They "trip" real hard when I'm editing 10 sec. after they yell "cut". All under battery power (2 to 3 hrs each)

You can also look into the Digigram VXpocket type II card if you need 24 bit recording @ 48K (2 XLR I/O & SPDIF I/O) or a Magam 4 slot if you need Mix or Mix Plus & acclerated SCSI. Thats what the boys at Skywalker are using.
NOTE: The Magma does not work with my model of notebook (Lombard) but it does work with the new PowerBooks (Pismo) or the older PowerBook (Wallstreet)

[Corey Shay]

If you're sick of taking the time to transfer into ProTools afterwards, why not use a CD recorder instead of a DAT recorder? That way you can extract the audio tracks off the CD much quicker than real time. Assuming you're using a mac I believe this option is under Import Audio From Other movie.

[Sean Halley]

I had heard that the Pismo's don't work with the new Magma chassis....(on a post here last week)....check it out first...

As far as the "Import from Movie", on the rare times I need to import that way I try to use Toast's Extractor, it seems faster...

Sean H

[FlyingDisc]

Sean,

Haven't you heard not to believe everything you read. For all you checking out the portability of ProTools checkout the www.magma.com (http://www.magma.com) site. It says it all. They have done extensive testing and I received a press release saying that Magma supports Digi001 but not MIX cards.

I have a Magam/PowerBook/001 system myself and couldn't be happier. I have no cables tying me down to the studio. At last, I 'm a free man.

Fly

[J Harry]

What sort of computer, hard drive, expansion chassis are you using?

[FlyingDisc]

J Harry,

Glad to help. I am using a Powerbook G3/400 with 192MB of ram. My dedicated external SCSI drive is a Seagate Cheetah. And to pull everything together, the Magma 2-slot expansion chassis is the one-of-choice.

I can try an track down the press release if anyone is interested. It's only a few lines but it was enough "insurance" for me to feel comfortable with the investement.

The other components of the system are class-A mic pres from Swissonics and some good mics TLM 103 with others. My advice to those who might be considering at setup such as this is, build a good front-end, mics, and mic-pres and good AD conversion. Nothing new but it is the truth.

Fly

[Rail Jon Rogut]

Hey Fly

I have a Pismo 500 and am contemplating adding a Magma 2 bay w/SCSI (is that what you have?)... My concern is that the PT 5.0.1 docs say that a 17" monitor is required (I run at 1024 x 768 anyway)... do you have any problems with the 14.1" LCD?

I'm looking at adding an 001 with a glyph/Kingston rack so I can bring work home/etc. for tuning/editing from my TDM system.

Thanks.

Rail

------------------
Recording Engineer

[Jules]

Oh yes! A hot swap drive bay for a laptop / 001 combo.
This is just what I am scheming on for myself to use at home and to get an assistant to chop / lable stuff in another room....on tracking sessions at other studios. (inc perhaps doing saftey back ups)
Lets keep in touch on this one. BTW Apogee have winked and nodded when I asked them about if they will make anything usefull for laptop PT operation, they said to wait till the summer AES... Not long to go now....
Rail do you forsee any buss speed issues (?) that would hamper hot swap drives (9, 18 & 36 gig) with laptop usage.??
Also how about, with a dat streamer, turning a laptop into a (retrospect) backup 'station' so work could continue full pelt on a 'main' system. (or burning CD's)

Ales Gut, Rongut!

Jules

[This message has been edited by Jules (edited July 09, 2000).]

[FlyingDisc]

Rail,

No problems with the 14.1 monitor. I think it is much bigger than I was expecting. Lots of real-estate.

Yes, I have the Magma 2-slot chassis with SCSI for the Cheetah drive. Nice combo

I don't understand why you need a Kingston rack? ProTools LE files are compatible with MIX plus as long as you save them as SDII files you should be alright. I have a feeling I am missing something here...help?

Jules, I am out to lunch. Please explain what you mean my "hot-swaps" for the drives... I dunno?

Fly

[Bryan]

I have a 4-banger, hot-swap rack in my PT rig and a little single space kingston tray from Glyph that hooks to my wallstreet PB G3. I intended to use it to bring my sample library with me while traveling (it's on a 50 gig kingston-mounted drive). I haven't used it much becaused it is quite bulky.

...however, I just got a firewire 25gig and it is pretty cool. Much more 'hot-swappable' and just a little larger than a pack of camels!

Haven't tried recording audio to it, though. I just load samples into Unity.

For those of us who do things like this, Digi needs to release a version of PT 5.x which will run on a powerbook. Soon, please. The magma/001 solution sounds cool, but sort of defeats the portability goal...might as well mount a G4 with a flat panel display.

[Rail Jon Rogut]

Fly,

I have (in my TDM rack) 6 removable glyph/Kingston bays which usually hold 6 x 18 gig Cheetahs... What I'd like to do is be able to transfer a stereo mix (sans vocals) and all vocal tracks to a session on a removable drive which I could then take home and be able to tune at home simply by plugging the drive into a Glyph/Kingston bay attached to my Pismo and 001 and opening the session. Tune the vocals, and later just take the drive back to the studio and TrackTransfer the tuned vocals into my original TDM session.

Bryan,

I'd love to see a version of PT which works without the 001/TDM hardware... but I doubt that'll happen... and I haven't seen any PC sound cards which can handle 24 bits properly either (most of my sessions are 24 bit, 48 kHz).

Jules,

I'm waiting 'til AES for any new PT purchases (too many rumours floating around)... as for the speed issues of the SCSI on the Pismo... I won't really know until I try it... I'll let you know. Considering that I don't plan to run that many tracks (limited to 24 with the 001 anyway) I don't think it should be an issue (I hope). I'm still in the R&D stages... but I'll keep you informed.

All the best to all.

Rail

------------------
Recording Engineer

[Jules]

We are getting close!
Jules

[Jim Clark]

So it looks like there are some viable options after all! Thanks all for you valuable input.

eldog, your rig sounds very cool - gotta impress the clients!

Sean- I always use TAE as well.

Corey, I don't think I want to go the dedicated CD recorder route. I would probably just keep doing DAT, even though I still have to deal with transfer time. I do like the powerbook options because of greater flexibilty (recording & editing, etc.)

FlyingDisc - your Magma/PowerBook/001 system sounds like it may be the way for me to go. I think a second set-up with Digi001 may be just the ticket. I did check out the magma site- thanks for the link.

I think with a large enough ext. drive I won't need to hot-swap in the field - Jules you maniac! http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Thanks again everyone for the help!

[Jules]

I got this responce:
http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif
Jules

> From: "Julian Standen" <[email protected]>
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 02:56:55 +0100
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: The MCE Xcarét Pro 2000 Media Bay CDRW and the MCE Xcarét Pro Media
> Bay CDRW are 4X4X20X
>
> Hi
>
> 1) Will this work in a Prismo laptop?

Yes

> 2) will it burn audio CD's from Toast or Jam software?

Toast only

> 3) If i use an expasion chassis (magma for PCI cards) do I have to un-plug
> it to use this?

Yes, only if you use the Magma adapter in the expansion bay slot. I though
Magma had changed the case to run through the PCMCIA slot.
>

--
Best Regards

Kevin Yuhas PH# 949-458-0800
MCE Powerbook Products Fax# 949-458-1803 http://www.powerbook1.com

30 Hughes, Ste 203
Irvine, CA 92618

[smrp]

"I don't understand why you need a Kingston rack? ProTools LE files are compatible with MIX plus as long as you save them as SDII files you should be alright. I have a feeling I am missing something here...help?"


Is it really this simple to transfer PT5 sessions back and forth between PT5 and PTLE? I would like to put together a small editing setup that I can take to the lake or wherever. I just want to be able to edit my sessions with out being stuck in the studio. But I need the cheapest possible solution.

[Jim Clark]

Jules "Hot Swap",

I'll admit that does sound sweet!

[Jules]

Main PT Mix + TDM rig uses hot swaps, Drives 'A' & 'B' make an LE copy on a hot swap drive "A', yank out, walk to other room where laptop is set up, slam hot swap drive 'A' into drive bay connected to the UW SCSI card in the 2nd slot of the Magma exp chassis (1st slot = 001 PCI board), load session,

edit.........

yank out hotswap drive 'A' from laptop rig, take it back to the main PT Mix + rig, open as regular PT 5 TDM session, continue with session. If yo want track transfer the new material for the same song recorded on drive 'B' during the lap top editing session, with Track Transfer....

& all with no f**king around with burning CD's etc....

CAPICHE?!

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Jules 'Hot swap' Standen


perhaps you could zip it down firewire, I dunno, I aint got that on my BEIGE G3.

[eggplant]

eldog-
Just a quick question about your PT powermix/laptop rig. You mentioned using the swissonic usb studio D for audio in. The audio interface can do 20bit 48k but I was under the impression that PT powermix was limited to 44.1k. Is that limitation referring only to mac built in hardware? I'm in the process of setting up my own powermix system and this is valuable info.


------------------
Nathan Whitehead
The Eggplant Company
[email protected]

[Captain Crunch]

just to put in my two cents...
I just got a Magma 4 slot expansion chassis, and hooked it to to a used G3 Wallstreet Powerbook. It's got a 001 in it, and is working well. Like many others on this topic, I wanted a mini-rig that was portable, so I could use a removable drive to take tracks from my TDM rig, and edit, tune etc.

Gear list:
G3 Powerbook. Magma 4 slot with wall street connection module. Adaptec SlimSCSI cardbus, with 1 bay Kingston removable UW receiver. 1 Cheetah 36GB HD in Kingston tray. 001.

cost about $4500 USD for all but the HD. Not as light and portable as I'd like, but a nice mini setup. The 001/LE sessions and audio files are completely interchangable with my TDM system, except for the fact that the LE can only do 24 tracks total. The only problem I've had so far (1 day of heavy editing) is the occasional fragmentation warning.

Incidentally, I got a WallStreet instead of a Pismo because its the one PB capable of carrying a full TDM system. At some point soon, I'll be trying it out that way.


It works!

[Jules]

Wow! Cool! Please run the 4 slot reason by me..Why not just a 2 slot? (is this for a mix + in future? .Also what / where is the Kingston mounted?
Thanks,
Jules

[Captain Crunch]

jules,
I got the 4 slot originally because I wanted to do the full Mix+ setup on the Powerbook. I still am planning on trying this when I have time. But for just plain old 001, a 2 slot thang would be fine, as long as its on a Pismo.

The Kingston is a single receiver box, just like a regular external HD, except its got a receiver in it. Kingston itself makes these. Its attached to the Adaptec SlimSCSI.

The Magma has a front accessable bay that is intended hold a CD-R. I thought it would also be the right size for a Kingston receiver, but its like 2mm too small!! I may just hack the metal so the damn thing will fit. This will help me improve portability. I want this whole deal to be a carry-on for flights, so I don't have to check it on a plane, but its still a little big.

BTW, another day of heavy editing, more fragmentation errors. Not consistant, and not all the time, just an occasional annoyance. Other than that, it rocks.

[Jules]

Are the frag errors due to the 001 prefering a Prismo over a Wall St?
Jules

[Captain Crunch]

well, there's no good reason for a Pismo to be better at dealing with frag errors than a Wall Street since I believe the Cardbus data rate is the same. Don't know yet. I'm thinking of trying the RATOC UW SCSI cardbus card.

Day 3 of heavy editing, same deal--generally good performance, intermittant frag errors.

By the way, not to be a jerk, but it's "Pismo", as in California's Pismo Beach! http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

[Jules]

I'm dislexic snix brith!
http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif
Jules

[Jules]

I started a new thread,

There is a new apogee product out that can have a large impact on portable PT systems. Go have a look.

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Jules

[Jim Clark]

I'm there! Thanks Jules.

Jim