film reel lengths

[anders]

i know this question is slightly off topic, but can anyone tell me the maximum lengths for a film reel? 16mm and 35mm linear length or just a time based length. i'm trying to break up a feature into reels. also specs for beeps at end of reel?
thanks

[Christopher Beaver]

You should check with the lab you plan to have print your film.

35mm reels used to be 10 minutes in length when I worked on Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. But now with platter feeds in many theaters, it may have gone up to 20 minutes. Our non-profit group, IDG Films, produced one 82-minute documentary in 16mm for blow-up to 35mm. We divided that into 5 reels of varying lengths, so somewhere in the twenty-minute length would be appropriate, you have some leeway

It's a good idea to have the change-over at a moment when there's less happening on the soundtrack and on-screen, at moments of rest or scene breaks, rather than in the midst of dialogue and certainly not in the midst of music: cutting points that do not depend on the most precise starting or ending points since the switchover is often inexact. Even with platter feeds, reels still need to be spliced together so frames can always be lost.

As for the beeps, a wiser head will have to prevail. Again whoever prints the film will know what to do.

[Kasper]

20 mins is max for 35 most of the time. It has more to do with where the film will be processed than it does with the platters in the theatres. Many theatres will splice the reeels together when they arrive, but they can't be processed or shipped if they are too big. Check with the lab.

I don't remember what 16 is. I think you can get 2x as much but I don't think it is common.

Usually the picture editor/director will make the decisions as to where to cut the reels and you just have to live with it. If you have a say in the matter, def. change reels when you cut to a new scene. You will hear a change in the ambiance if not, and often a click or pop.

The tail pop should be 2 sec after the last frame of picture, just like the 2-pop is 2 sec before the first frame . You should have the academy leader on the transfer you are working with, this will show you exactly where to put the head and tail pops.

Also before the start of each reel you will need pull-ups, talk to the lab about how long they want them to be, or sometimes they can do them for you.

kasper

[Vaughn]

Just finished with a 16mm and the lab gave me a max of 30 min. But as Kasper said it is better to change reels at a good hard scene change than trying to go to the max of the film reel. Also if you are working with film it is better to work with feet and frames than your normal T/C.

Robert

[JKD99]

Ummm, in 35mm an "AB Reel" or "2000-Footer" maxes out at around 21 minutes (90 feet per minute) allowing for leader before and after. The head pop should be at the 9 foot (6 second) mark, the 1st frame of picture is ALWAYS at 12 feet, even if it's a fade-up from black. Tail pop is 3 feet after the last frame of picture (not 1st frame of black) Pullups at the end of a reel are not set in stone as far as length, but must be at least 26 frames. Some mixers will print right up to the tail pop. Obviously you do this at the printmaster, when you have the mix for the incoming reel online. As far as where to break up a reel, if you can do it on an interior/ exterior cut, or other location change, that'll be best. Otherwise, your backgrounds will be nearly impossible to match, and DON'T try to do it in the middle of a music cue. It IS possible to make it work in the mix if you're mixing in Pro Tools, but the 1st time the projectionist blows a changeover it'll bump bigtime. Hope this helps!

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Joe Milner
Puget Sound
Los Angeles

[COCO]

I usually let the lab do the reel "pull up" or "overlap." It's easier that way! Of-course, let them know. Imho, stick with the video standard, that's SMPTE, and not feet & frames; unless you're syncing to film in an interlock, or something. I specify tail beeps with a 1 frame visual marker wherever it's convenient for the film maker to place them, prior to telecine, of course.

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-COCO
CocoLoco Independent Sound for independent film makers
[email protected]

[Vaughn]

I have to say if you want your scene cuts to be exact, for film, you need to work with feet and frames. That is what the film labs work in and understand.

Robert