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View Full Version : Scrub Wheel - but seriously !


airon
11-04-2000, 12:33 AM
Hi there
New to this list, I wanna drop a big lump of eternal dissapointment here, unless someone will correct my troubled impressions with a pearl of wisdom.

Just yesterday the post team got its second day of training on the new Protools AV system and we're a tad dissapointed with what the scrub wheel on the Procontrol has to offer on functionality.

Coming from an AUGARN system, we're used to the scrubwheel being more than just that. It could MOVE/CUT/SHIFT-under-cursor material.

And that's not all. Who the hell forgot to add proper MARKER navigation ?! It's fine to advance forward with TAB, but how about backwards ??

Ok, so now you may start the crusification process, should I have missed those very useful post features in PT.

We are of course banging our heads with PT 5.01 with G4 and AVID hardware on MacOS9.04.

You'd earn yourself a big wet sloppy thank you if you point towards things our support guy has not been able to tell us in this matter.

Do I like PT? Why, who wouldn't? http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif.

Tony

Jules
11-05-2000, 03:25 PM
Can someone sumerize the progress since the first posts and what is still not working fully on the scrub wheel?
I find the curser 'way back' after using it. Is that my fault?
Jules

PTPerson
11-05-2000, 04:11 PM
Jules, check your preferences "Insertion follows scrub"

That should help

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

John McDaniel
11-06-2000, 01:52 AM
Uhh.... the scrub wheel.

Well... here's some links to past discussions in the ProControl section of the DUC to give you a little history on the topic.
http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000003.html
http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000025.html
http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000027.html
http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000087.html

Be outspoken or it won't get done. Persist. Be unrelenting. Be a pest.

later, j mcd

airon
11-06-2000, 11:24 AM
More on scrubwheel action..

This time a wish list :
- Always available for moving cursor
It's analog, so let's use it for analog stuff.

- only disable transport if you realy
have to disable anything.
Take a look at the Augarn and then
look at the Procontrol.
Using an ethernet controller and
a USB keyboard at the same time
can't be that hard

- major feature. AUGARN a)SLIP/b)TRIM
function, meaning
a)the audio can be moved over a
static cursor
b)audio is moved within the region
window and again the cursor is static

Tony
Pearson TV/Grundy Europe

JKD99
11-08-2000, 07:33 AM
Hi Tony,
As far as the editing questions you mentioned.....
1) You can tab backwards by using option-tab
2) You can shift audio within a region (to value specified in "nudge") by highlighting region, then nudging forward or backward with control key pressed
3) I never use the scrub wheel anyway, I just use the Selector Tool with control key held down, which turns the selector into a scrubber

I realize all these things depend on using the keyboard instead of the ProControl, which I suppose defeats the purpose a bit. My system is set up so that the 32 fader ProControl is set up on a 7-foot long desk from Middle Atlantic, and it provides enough room IN FRONT of the ProControl to have the keyboard, remotes, AXIS panner etc. easily available. (This is also probably why the armrests on my ProControl haven't lost their paint http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif) Maybe the addition of the QWERTY keyboard in the new EditPack will help those who haven't got their keyboard so close at hand, but, another 8 grand? Anyway, hope this helps, and that I haven't completely missed the point of your post! Good Luck.

Joe Milner
Puget Sound
Los Angeles, CA

airon
11-08-2000, 05:00 PM
You wrote:
>1) You can tab backwards by using option-tab

This will only give me access to region bounds. I wanted to jump around using markers. In reality, we don't use this feature a LOT, but it should have been included. Perhaps it'll be in PT 5.1.

>2) You can shift audio within a region (to >value specified in "nudge") by highlighting >region, then nudging forward or backward >with control key pressed

Thanks. I wasn't told about this, so yeah, this is very nice. I like shifting ambiences that way if the start or end doesn't fit well.

>3) I never use the scrub wheel anyway, I >just use the Selector Tool with control key >held down, which turns the selector into a >scrubber

Shure, it's a start. Today we used an optical sensor mouse(Logitech Wheelmouse). The programable right hand mouse button to act as CTRL+click is a big help in dropping stuff. A lot of helpful features became aparent on the last day of our system intro, so I'm quite happy with PT for now, though I'll steadily nail stuff in to Digidesigns memory as often as it takes.

The new 5.1 version should be very interesting. We're waiting for support for UNITY too, which is in the making and almost done I hear.

In the meanwhile, DIGIDESIGN, where's simple cursor movement via the scrubwheel on the PC ??? Will it come in 5.1 ? Is it in the works at all ? Has anyone taken a look at AUGARN systems, to see what they've offered for almost ten years now ? I want that. If it's hard, then I'm sorry to say, that's your problem, 'cause you are the engineers for this thing. I wish you speed and bugless dev cycles.

Take care
Tony
Pearson TV/Grundy Europe

PTPerson
11-08-2000, 09:24 PM
You can jump around markers very easily.
Just hit enter and the memory location window will save the position with a marker in the timeline.

To fly between markers is simple:

.1. = memory location #1
.2. = memory location #2
etc, etc.

Moving the cursor with the scrubwheel:

A bit tricky at first but once you get the knack it's very easy.

1st: Hit the centre button of the quadrant (twice if the button is not lit) so it's flashing.

2nd: Hold down the Left and Right buttons of the quadrant and move the scrubwheel.....it moves the cursor. If you're wanting to select audio simply hold either the left or right buttons and move the wheel, it will select, deselect audio, plus trim sides of the selection.
If you want to move to different tracks use the up and down buttons on the quadrant.

This is very easy to use after a while.

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by PTPerson (edited November 08, 2000).]

Chris Lambrechts
11-09-2000, 04:26 PM
quote PT : ............. hold either the left or right buttons and move the wheel, it will select, deselect audio, plus trim sides of the selection.

Geez PT, for a moment you got me switching on my studio again and startup a session ........ I thought I read TRIM REGIONS with the scrubweel http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

------------------
Chris Lambrechts

PTPerson
11-10-2000, 04:25 PM
"My goal is to make the Procontrol able to stand almost by itself. My boss rightly moaned about having to use three interfaces, mouse,keyboard&Procontrol, so I'm looking for features that made the system we're using at this time so elegant, to be included in Protools."

Bad news, it's not gonna happen. We had the same intentions.

Unfortunately due to some incredibly odd thinking digi assumed that the ProControl didn't need a keyboard or a trackball. (Do these guys really use ProTools or what?) They attempted it with the trackpad (which is entirely useless).

So now, for the luxury of having the keyboard and trackball on the same surface they're asking us to spring 8 Grand for the EditPack (too bad if you're not doing surround), I just love having to spend more money on what are fundamentals and it's totally beyond me that the original core doesn't have these.

So....if you're not going to buy the Editpack you have to fight between 3 surfaces, the ProControl, Keyboard and Trackball, incredibly not ergonomic and not good for the back either constantly changing your seating position.

Have fun, and get a chiropractor.

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Jules
11-10-2000, 05:30 PM
So I am a Pro Control "Rocker" I just do music on mine.
I bought the Gallery Mission Control, for its 70 user programmable Hot keys and it's 7 dedicated memory locaton buttons,
I just "bang a button" for a lot of different tasks.

Most used are:

Gimmi a new track
Gimmi a new Aux
Gimmi a new stereo Aux
Fades menue
Select previous chunk
Select next chunk
Zoom to fill
Nudging
Copy Plug in
Write automation to all
Write automation to end
Delete tracks
SCRAP (dont keep take)
DSP meter
Consolodate region
Mute / unmute

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Jules

Jules
11-10-2000, 05:32 PM
oops!

[This message has been edited by Jules (edited November 10, 2000).]

airon
11-11-2000, 01:04 AM
>.1. = memory location #1

Too slow when you've got markers that you simply want to advance to.

For example, the actor opens a door, which leads to the outside, so I cut in some outdoor ambience. Untill now I'd mark off the start of opening, completly open, start to close and completly closed, to make proper cuts and fades. In Protools, using markers is a LOT slower, because you have to pick 'em with a mouse, which is faster than that hoopala with entering the marker number. Hence a simple |< and >| to address EITHER markers of regions boundaries would realy help. The Augarn handles it this way, so I think using the key command focus buttons for jumping around regions by creating another MODE for these buttons that instead makes them use markers for reference, would cut my editing time.

>it moves the cursor. If you're
>wanting to select audio simply
>hold either the left or right
>buttons and move the wheel, it
>will select, deselect audio,
>plus trim sides of the selection.

Sounds neat to me. I'll have to try that when(or if-hanging in the balance but not because of these features) the system gets installed.

My goal is to make the Procontrol able to stand almost by itself. My boss rightly moaned about having to use three interfaces, mouse,keyboard&Procontrol, so I'm looking for features that made the system we're using at this time so elegant, to be included in Protools.

Thanks for that info. I apreciate it.

Tony

airon
11-11-2000, 08:13 AM
Heh. Nice going Jules. I've only seen pictures of that thing. What labels can you get for it ? Printable ones perhaps ?

I've come to like the key command focus, and to an extent even the keyboard of the G4.

>Select previous chunk
>Select next chunk
I assume, you're assigning keyboard sequences here ? This is most interesting. I've gotta check this thing out, though I'll probably get the stake in the heart when I see the price.

Has anybody liked the webdesign of Gallery ? I found their info on MTools very weak online.

Question-Know some good Applescript resources ? I've gotta learn it a bit to be happy on a machine without a commandline interface. I use Perl a lot for some text stuff and batch file generation.

Tony

thierryd
11-13-2000, 11:42 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by airon:
[B]>.1. = memory location #1

Too slow when you've got markers that you simply want to advance to.

For example, the actor opens a door, which leads to the outside, so I cut in some outdoor ambience. Untill now I'd mark off the start of opening, completly open, start to close and completly closed, to make proper cuts and fades. In Protools, using markers is a LOT slower, because you have to pick 'em with a mouse, which is faster than that hoopala with entering the marker number. Hence a simple |< and >| to address EITHER markers of regions boundaries would realy help. The Augarn handles it this way,


As do the Akai daws, the AMS AudioFile, the Fairlight and every other sensible daw I know, such as Avid/Digidesign's own AudioVision, but no PT does it differently...beats me why... why do it the simple way, if you can also implement it by doing 3 button presses and an option-control-click-command-sort-of-thing, preferably with one hand on the mouse, one hand on the keyboard and one hand on the Pro Controle (oops, that's one hand too many)...


so I think using the key command focus buttons for jumping around regions by creating another MODE for these buttons that instead makes them use markers for reference, would cut my editing time.

I would hope some engineers at digi looked at the competition to implement some post things...

>it moves the cursor. If you're
>wanting to select audio simply
>hold either the left or right
>buttons and move the wheel, it
>will select, deselect audio,
>plus trim sides of the selection.

Sounds neat to me. I'll have to try that when(or if-hanging in the balance but not because of these features) the system gets installed.

My goal is to make the Procontrol able to stand almost by itself. My boss rightly moaned about having to use three interfaces, mouse,keyboard&Procontrol, so I'm looking for features that made the system we're using at this time so elegant, to be included in Protools.


I vote for that too !

Greetings,

Thierry

airon
11-13-2000, 07:13 PM
Well, now that we have this cleared up, I'd like to hear what the Digidesign people have to say on the subject of the Wheel.

I might remind you, that obviously most other DAWs manage to struggle up that 'move the cursor and do lots of stuff with the wheel' stuff. How come a $12000 piece of hardware had its engineers forget this ?

I'd at least like some form of clarification on this point, if some time in the future you won't be making yourselves the laughing stock of post production personel. You ain't seen bigger eyes when this 'missing' functionality is mentioned. So what's going on ?

Tony
Pearson TV/Grundy Europe