PDA

View Full Version : 64 channels on a ProControl


Mini Me
11-29-1999, 10:54 PM
How do you get more than 32 channel on a ProControl? I understand you buy the main unit and add on 8 channel inputs for a max of 32. What do you do if one requires 48 or even more tracks to be displayed on the PC?

Thanks.

George Cumbee
11-30-1999, 10:19 AM
Mini:

Hopefully you have studied the PC brochure or lit. There is a scroll button UP/DOWN (act left and right) on the right side that lets you scroll 8 channels at a time. ie: you can mix 64 (or more with more voices) channels on the main unit by scrolling. I currently do that. It is nice to have more for a larger console look, but I just finished an album with 40-50 tracks on most songs. Obviously you can't deal with more than a few faders at a time anyway. You watch the faders on the screen to see the big picture.

It is quiet easy. It has always been OK with me. I worked with a console for years with an 8 channel fader box that scrolled.

I will probably add more fader packs as I can afford them, but it is not necessary to mix large projects.

As you can see in the Digi feature about the Ricky Martin project, that was apparently done on a 16 fader PC system.

Hope that explains you question.

Digi will probably shoot me for not promoting more faders. I think everyone would naturally have more if $$$$ were no object. We put a lot of money into other aspects of out PT room, so we had to wait for more faders.

George Cumbee, Pres.
Audio Creations, Inc.
Classic Recording, Franklin, TN
www.classicrecording.com

Mini Me
11-30-1999, 04:42 PM
George:

Thanks for the info. Do you think say the Protools system (5.0, 888/24 and PC) might have better sound quality than the new Mackie HDR24/96 with the D8B?

Thanks again...

George Cumbee
11-30-1999, 05:03 PM
My vote would be for the PT rig, however it is a difficult comparison. The Mackie stuff is more conventional. It will sound great, but be limited to 24 tracks assuming you just have one deck. Mackie is adding some plug-in type features to the DR8, but in NO way will it approach what you can do on a PT setup with a Pro-Control. Doing the PT/PC route is expensive. I just spent 60K and already had some things I needed. That was to outfit a room for PT mixing/od/editing/mastering etc.

Good luck

George
Classic Recording
www.classicrecording.com

Mini Me
12-01-1999, 12:43 AM
George,

Again, you're information is appreciated. I imagine after purchasing 60K toward the Protools system, you favor it very much. I was told that the system, when using it to fully track and mix sounds a little thin, do you have the same problem with it?

Thanks.

Mini Me
12-01-1999, 12:45 AM
George,

Again, you're information is appreciated. I imagine after purchasing 60K toward the Protools system, you favor it very much. I was told that the system, when using it to fully track and mix sounds a little thin, do you have the same problem with it?

Thanks.

George Cumbee
12-01-1999, 05:00 PM
We do not, as yet, fully track to it. It is in a seperate room mainly for mixing, editing etc. We are in the process of building out that room into a CR and Booth for Vocal OD's etc. I do keyboard orchestration direct to it for a client who records vocals & piano at another studio in IN and then sends to us. Doing direct in that way sounds no different to me that it did when when recorded on an analog console to 8mm or ADAT. I am not as sure if it sounds as good as projects we did years ago on 2" analog. I listen to some of those sessions now and still marvel at how good they sound.

I just mixed a large project for a new Atlanta based artist. It was 40-50 tracks on most songs. It is anything but thin. IN fact I am going back in and reducing the low end on a couple of songs that are just too heavy. I feel that it is just like anything else, you have to use your ears and do your levels, eq, verb etc to make it sound like what you want to hear.

I don't claim to be a golden ears engineer, but I know what I like and compared to other major label projects, I think we hit pretty close, considering our budget.

George
Classic Recording, Franklin, TN
www.classicrecording.com

Mini Me
12-02-1999, 02:46 AM
George,

Are you using 888/24 or the Apogee AD8000? What would you recommend?

As far as preamps are concerned, I use a couple of Avalon 737sp but considering other units as well. What would you suggest?

Thanks.

theazone
12-02-1999, 05:17 AM
Forget scrolling through your tracks, it's much more efficient to make use of the memory location ... without the 'time' location.
You just 'show' the tracks of a certain category (ie. Drums & bass, Dialogue, Foley or what have you) then hit enter the memory location menu pops up then engage/disengage the "time settings" and engage the 'show track' with any other 'option' available (ie. zoom, track hight etc.)
When you want to see a paticular 'category' just hit the corresponding memory location number then '.' and your set up is immediatly available to be worked on.
We doe audio post so my set up is pretty slick:
memory 1: volatile 'time code location'
memory 2: Dialogue (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 3: Ambiance (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 4: Foley (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 5: SF/x and music (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 6: Dialogue and music (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 7: All subs and reverbs

Hope this helps
ciao
rg ;^D

------------------

theazone
12-02-1999, 05:19 AM
Forget scrolling through your tracks, it's much more efficient to make use of the memory location ... without the 'time' location.
You just 'show' the tracks of a certain category (ie. Drums & bass, Dialogue, Foley or what have you) then hit enter the memory location menu pops up then engage/disengage the "time settings" and engage the 'show track' with any other 'option' available (ie. zoom, track hight etc.)
When you want to see a paticular 'category' just hit the corresponding memory location number then '.' and your set up is immediatly available to be worked on.
We do audio post so my set up is pretty slick:
memory 1: volatile 'time code location'
memory 2: Dialogue (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 3: Ambiance (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 4: Foley (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 5: SF/x and music (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 6: Dialogue and music (w. it's sub and reverbs)
memory 7: All subs and reverbs

Hope this helps
ciao
rg ;^D

roykamen
12-02-1999, 09:00 PM
I use a 32 fader system for dance mixing and it cooks!. I use up to 64 tracks and plenty of stereo aux returns. I haven't used this very cool Memory system in this way yet but the jump buttons do very nicely. Just don't get your figers chopped off! LOL.

I love my system. Used it to mix and master Marina's latest CD. Check out the results with a free MP3 download at www.mrkrecords.com

------------------

George Cumbee
12-02-1999, 09:07 PM
We use the 888/24. I am sure the 8000 is better. Our budget was just crammed and we had to get the 888. I plan to get an 8K later. We rented one recently to dump tracks from a 48dig Sony to PT for a client. We ran the 8K, 888 and ADAT bridge. Honestly I don't think anyone would know which were which. If s, then why did the eng chose to do it with all 3 instead of the 8K for all. All tracks sounded fine.

George
Classic Recording Franklin, (Nashville), TN
www.classicrecording.com

George Cumbee
12-02-1999, 09:22 PM
Sorry I forgot your question about pre's...We just bought 2 737's also. They are wonderful. We have also used the Vintech Neve 1272 which is fine. I do keyboard orchestration a lot and I just use a Mackie 1202vlz for mixing several modules together. Line levels in to stereo XLR out to 888 in. Works great. Probably a better way, but it works for what we do.

George
Classic

Mini Me
12-02-1999, 09:47 PM
Hi George,

Yeah, I think those Avalon's are complete winners. In your opinion, when using modules and samplers etc..., is it better to go directly into a 888/24 or an Apogee or use Digidesign's 1622? Couldn't they have made it 24 bit or does it matter?

Thanks

Greg Malcangi
12-03-1999, 03:45 AM
Hi Mini,

I've got 2 888/24s and a 1622. The 1622 is much better for synths, samplers, etc. You can individually adjust each of the 16 channels input volume, whereas the level just isn't high enough on some modules when going direct into an 888/24 without going through a pre-amp first.

20bit as opposed to 24bit makes absolutely no difference for synths/modules. Nearly all synths/modules are only 16bit to start with. Add the heavy compression, and most synths don't have a dynamic variation of more than about 12bit. 20bit is therefore already overkill for synths/modules and even high quality samplers.

Regards,

Greg

12-03-1999, 06:00 AM
George,
With respect,no ones going to hear a difference between 888/24's & AD8000's in a DIGITAL transfer! Theres no conversion being done! A real test would be on an A/D task....
Jules

George Cumbee
12-03-1999, 09:08 AM
Julian:

I agree. In this case, we were transferring analog from the 3348. We did not have the proper cables etc. to get a dig transfer. I did not make that clear in my post.

I am sure there was some difference, but we did not take pains to analyze it and just transferring we did not hear anything that stuck out. This was a major label Christian artist and the engieer is VERY picky and it was his idea to do it that way. He was happy.

George
Classic, Franklin, TN
www.classicrecording.com

Mini Me
12-03-1999, 11:27 AM
I appreciate all the help folks...

For anyone who has the complete Protools/24 Mix-Plus system, how many Mix core and Mix farm cards would you need for a complete 64 track mix?

Thanks...

George Cumbee
12-03-1999, 12:30 PM
We have a mix core and 2 mix farms. Would like another farm but have been doing OK. I think the most we have mixed is around 50 with 4-5 Aux returns and a Master Fader. It only gets wierd with lots of plugs-in and especially Waves stuff happening. I try to keep my plug-ins to a mimimum. Don't put EQ or Dynamics on tracks you don't need it. If it is really full I use a lot of Digirack EQ's instead of Waves or Focusrite. That seems to help.

Since we got the 480L reverb it has helped with having the two verbs from it instead of 2 plugin verbs which take either 1/2 or a full chip.

We just installed 5.0 and Waves 2.8 and OS9. So now with different memory situations it will be interesting to see how it acts. I do need to install more memory in our 9600/300. We are operating on 192meg now. Probably will put in another 64meg soon.

George
Classic Recording, Franklin, TN
www.classicrecording.com

Branko
12-05-1999, 03:01 AM
Theazone,
Great idea (the best are usually simplest)!
I'll try it today!
Branko

12-05-1999, 08:41 AM
Like George I have 2 Mix farms & a mix core, I have just picked up a s/h vintage farm too.
Like George I hope to skip some DSP drain by using outboard digi i/o FX (and one analog reverb too) This seems to be a trend as people aren't really knocked out by plug in reverb yet.

Jules

George Cumbee
12-05-1999, 10:45 AM
Jules:

What kind of plug-in verbs do you have?

I know you said you don't like Lexicon, but I think you should try Lexiverb. I am very impressed by it. Reverb is a very subjective thing and I have bounced around from box to box for years. I own about 15 or so now I think. I get tired of them and move on then come back later and go Hmmm, ain't so bad.

I bought a Lexi 200 back in 83 and thought it was the berries. Got tired of it. It sat in a rack for 2-3 years. I fired it up one day and thought it was great. Verb kind of does that to you. When I got my 480 in Oct, I went WOW!. Then after using it for 2 projects I was already used to it. Lexiverb will probably do that also. I think your mind just gets used to verb in a hurry.

So far I am still impressed with Lexiverb. More so than TC Megaverb, Trueverb or Dverb. The later two never did a lot for me. TC is pretty nice. I would like to hear a 3000, like yours. I have heard they are great. It is nice working with the 480 as 2 verbs to save DSP. This last big project would have never flown without crashes, DSP shuffling if I had not done that.

I think you would like Lexiverb. It takes a whole chip though. Borrow one if you can. I think you are in England? Maybe someone there has it. There was some discussion somewhere of a trial demo. Don't know if that is happening yet.

Good luck...Now back to my trial run on PT5

George
Classic Recording
www.classicrecording.com

Avid
12-05-1999, 04:09 PM
There is a demo of LexiVerb v1.x available for download on Lexicon's site at http://www.lexicon.com/lexiverb/homeframe.htm

This will only work on non-MIX farms, however.

When we have a v2.0 MIX compatible demo, we'll put that up on our site. We're planning on adding demo versions of our plug-ins to the Digidesign Web Store. I'm a little reluctant to put up a demo there of a non-shipping version.

------------------
Bruce Paine
eMarketing

12-05-1999, 05:07 PM
Yep George! In fact I just bought the vintage farm card in Lexiverbs honour! (+ other non upgraded to mix plugs!) I am aware of it's reputation, (thank you for adding!) as the only TDM reverb realy worth using.
I haven't got it yet but I will soon. Thanks!

I can make use of that demo now!

Do you go AES i/o with your 480? I can get 2 seperate stereo FX at once with the M3000 too, but the output comes only out of one stereo AES out. Do you get 2 on the Lex 480?

George Cumbee
12-05-1999, 06:35 PM
I am just using it analog 2in 4 out out of the 888. I use 3 & 4 for the send and 5/6 for Machine 1 and 7/78 for machine 2 and return them to auxes.

George

12-05-1999, 08:03 PM
Carumba! George! You need the AES option for your Lex! it will knock your socks off! Fer Petes sake, look into it man! Report back or I will picket outside your studio with a big sign!

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Hoolio

George Cumbee
12-06-1999, 12:56 PM
Julian, Julian.....

I thought you did not like Lexicon or are you just talking about AES interface in general? How much difference is there on your 3K doing AES?

Seriously, I did consider it, can't remember how much extra it is. I might get it. It requires a wierd interface from a db9 connector I think. I know that is what is on the back of the 480 for it. Guess it is a db9 to XLR breakout assembly plus an internal card or chip. I will look into it. If anyone knows, let me know here!!!

I will consider it, thanks. You're welcome to come see us anytime you're in Nashville. You don't have to bring a picket sign.....

George

Mini Me
12-06-1999, 02:59 PM
George and/or Jules:

I called a couple of retail stores regarding a question I had, but they didn't know the answer to it.

Assuming I'm playing back via the AD8000, are my powered monitors connected via the AD8000 or the ProControl? I assume the ProControl.

Thanks.

George Cumbee
12-06-1999, 03:19 PM
Mini:

The speakers hook up to the Pro-Control. You will see in the manual. There are 3 db25 (DA-88) type connectors on the PC. You will bring analog audio via two XLR cables from the 8K into the inputs on the cable on the PC and then your speakers connectors to the control room out on the output connector. These 3 cables DB-25-XLR ARE NOT included with your Pro-Control.. You will need to get them from your dealer or from some place like MARS, RAPCO, HOSA, CABLE-UP etc. etc. Make sure you get the proper connectors as in Male or Female to either input or output on the PC.

Geez.....I think you need to consider a different dealer if they did not know that. What else will they NOT know?

Don't know where you are but I would suggest considering Sweetwater Sound. I got my whole system there. Here is my email address. Mail me and I will give you the owner's email address. He will make you a good deal. They are the largest Digi dealer in the country. If fact he just got his own that he is putting in his house. They have a great tech support team to help you get up and running..

audc@apex.net

George Cumbee, Pres.
Classic Recording, Franklin, TN
www.classicrecording.com