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View Full Version : Tempo/Beat Map Grid to fix drum timing?


El Guapo
11-02-1999, 08:34 AM
Is the tempo/beat map grid feature really effective to fix timing problems with live drums? I mean; if you have all of these mics on the drums and they are all "snapped" does this sound OK? I have a project where the drummer swears this will fix all of his problems but I have not used it.

ProTool1
11-02-1999, 09:39 AM
If you had the whole band playing to a click then you could go in and edit (bars beats mode) the drum tracks.

This will in essence "quantize" the drum track. This is used quite frequently in music you hear every day.

However if this will be your first time editing drums, I suggest you find someone in your area that can help you, or simply hire out the work.

Keep in mind that this will take approximately 6-8 hours per song if you want it done right.

Good Luck http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

11-02-1999, 11:54 AM
I think El was refering to the dream of multi drum channel drum quantising rather than just having grids for edits. Programmers just throw mono or stereo loops into recycle, or Acid and the softwear takes care of all quantising and BPM matching.
To date there is no other way round fixing a live drum preformance than rolling up sleves and doing it all by hand (ok grid reference is handy) is this not right?
Or is there a way to "auto quantise" (or as El says "Snapped") a 4 min drum track accross 11 channels?

Jules

ProTool1
11-02-1999, 01:22 PM
Ooooohhh!

You were wanting the program to do it for you?!

I wish! You have to do it yourself. Or as Julian said acid and some other beat loop programs will let you load one good measure and loop it to a precise BPM, but not 11 tracks worth, you will have to mix down to a stereo drum track first, then you can load it back into PT and match it up, assuming the rest of the band is in perfect time.

El Guapo
11-02-1999, 03:08 PM
For example:
Drummer plays great but in two places in the song his fill goes out of time. It's painful to try to do it all over again, etc. The stuff is based on a click track so the beat/measure map will work. But what is the practical application of moving (for example) the two tom hits which are slow. You know, we have 5 live mics recording this stuff. Can it really be moved in this manner? It does not seem possible in recording a live drum set.

coaster
11-02-1999, 05:39 PM
el guapo-
i think it would be easier to re-record THOSE TWO HITS on an open track, then edit it back in the original. forget trying to fix imprecision. if all the drummer has to do is play ONE BAR, it will be easier to do it correctly. of course, this assumes you still have the kit set up and miked, with all connections between mikes, board, processers, and recorder still hooked up.
otherwise, happy editing!
-coaster

Disco_Doctor
11-02-1999, 06:52 PM
But what is the practical application of moving (for example) the two tom hits which are slow. You know, we have 5 live mics recording this stuff.

Don't just move the two tom tracks - move all of the drum tracks to keep the phase relationship between the mics. Group all the drum tracks. Then select the area that needs to be fixed and chop it up (command-E). Then identify a sync point on the region where the peak of the drum hit is. Then switch to grid mode, drop the cursor where the drum hit should have been and then control-option click on the region and Pro Tools will snap the sync point to the cursor location.

does this sound OK? I have a project where the drummer swears this will fix all of his problems but I have not used it.

I've quantized drum tracks down to the eighth note from beginning to end on less than stellar performances. It sounds fine when it's done right. In fact, one you start doing little sections of the song and making them perfect, you will begin to notice small timing errors in the rest of the track that didn't bother you before - it's sort of a Pandora's box. Once I start fixing drum tracks, I usually end up doing the whole thing from top to bottom. It's worth it though - it sounds really good.

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

11-03-1999, 03:47 AM
coaster said -

"i think it would be easier to re-record THOSE TWO HITS on an open track, then edit it back in the original. forget trying to fix imprecision. if all the drummer has to do is play ONE BAR, it will be easier to do it correctly"

This is exactly what I want PT for! Loop record till he gets a good one!


Jules

El Guapo
11-03-1999, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the "hands on" answers. Like many technical issues, there are factors of (1) knowing what procedure is used to address an issue (2) knowing the best way, sometimes among several, to do it, and (3) the time factor of getting from novice to expert.

In the 6 months I have had PT, the issues and answers on this conf have saved me countless frustrated hours staring at the book or waiting till the next day to call when the issue is stale, etc. Without this user conf. PT would be a very different experience for me. (worse, that is)

To get more specific, I'm sort of blown away by the obviously seasoned individuals who donate their time to answer questions from the stupid (mine) to sublime (others).

I mean, can I receive college credit for reading the posts and answers each day?

Thanks: Disco, Jules, and others who responded, now that I have some bearing on how the issues are focused, I can spend the time knowing it's not a dead end.