Mics

[music]

I am considering buying a microphone to record male rock vocals. I am looking at C414ULS/or TLII, TLM 103, possibly M147, Audio Technica stuff any good? I am in research mode right now, any other suggestions or opinions on these mics or others would be helpful. Also preamp selection opinions for male rock vocals would be cool. Buget around $2000. for mics and around $1000. for pre's.

Thanks,
Keith

If it's for clients, go for the Neumann 147, it gives 'client confidence' 1000%.
If it's just you using it go for what you feel like.
Jules

[Kenny Gioia]

As far as Mic Pre's definitely pick up a Neve 1272 or maybe a pair.

It totally amazes me how affordable the old used Neve (Pre Only) and the API stuff are.
Even the Telefunken stuff you can get a pair for about $1500.

These pre blow away any of the newer stuff.
I don't want to mention names but if the bright color fronts fit.

Peace:•)

[music]

Thanks guys, good suggestions!
1000% sounds great, it looks like the Neumann 147's for me! As for the pre's, do you know any sites or places I can get a decent price on the Neve's?
These are all for my project studio by the way.

Thanks,

Keith http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

[Earjam]

Hey Man! It sounds likeyou've already gotten some good advice, But consider this as well!
The new CAD tube mic! This mic is amazingly versatile. It seems like all I do sometimes is record singers. I use a Amek 9098 micpre, and anyone of number of mics Neuman 87s, 67s, Manley gold reference etc...
The CAD has held up very well! I'm using it more than any other mic right now.
I think it goes for around $800.00
I would definately stay away from the 414uls
for vocals. It is very harsh. There is no comparison the older 414eb, which is still a bit dark for most voices.
Anyway , good luck!!

[dBHEAD]

I'm going to give some unorthodox suggestions. First of all, there is no single mic which would be perfect for every male voice. Incredible as it may seem, I've had instances where an RE20 blew a U87 away. I'm serious.

I have to tell you, though, the best mic I have ever heard for a male voice is a well tuned RCA 77DX ribbon. They don't make them any more but you can buy them used and I believe you can get them rebuilt. They will NOT work well with screaming type vocals, but they will with all others.

If you want an excellent all-around vocal mic, try the Beyerdynamic MC740. They're pricy (around $1,100) but very transparent and cheaper than the U87. I'm not dissing U87s, but I think there's kind of a "Gucci Factor" with Neumans. People need to try other things.

I've also heard good things about the CADs, but I don't own any yet so I can't say.

The C414ULS...I just don't know what to say. It's weird. I agree with Earjam below that they sound harsh. Sometimes. Other times they have given me incredibly full sounding vocals. I almost think there's some secret to to using a 414B-ULS that nobody has really nailed down yet.

There's one other mic, however, which is also an AKG, I strongly recommend and think is the best value, dollar-for-dollar, of any mic made: the C-1000. You can get them for under $200 these days and I think they do an absolutely incredible job on vocals.

[Skully]

Keith,

Definately check out www.brentaverill.com for the Neve's. He has several mic pre's re-packaged and racked. I have a rack of 5 of the API mic pre's and they are fantastic. Brent is great to work with, and his quality is the best I've seen!

Steve

[CStern]

Whoa! Hold up! You're gonna go out and spend $3500 blindly just because you got a few responses in a post? Don't buy gear for client credibility... use your ears. What do you want out of the mic and mic pre? The Neve is a very colored sound that you might not find useful for some applications. Also, the 147 is very flat. You might want or be used to a mic that has a HF boost. You HAVE to decide what you need and LISTEN before you buy.

[This message has been edited by CStern (edited 10-28-99).]

[This message has been edited by CStern (edited 10-28-99).]

[music]

Thanks all, great suggestions. Of course I will listen and buy with the ears but I have heard so many great things about the Neumann's and the Neve's that it seems like it would not be an unwise decision. But I do own the CAD E200 and it does do a pretty good job all around. Maybe one of their tube mics would be cool! So many options these days. It's a wonderful world. Gear, Gear, Gear. Any advice on Solitube?.

Thanks,
Keith http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

[Eric Bazilian]

Okay, my .02.

For mics definitely check out both the Microtech Gefell UM92 (if they still make it, or whatever the current equivalent is) and the Brauner ValveIt. Gefell was the East German Neuman factory before the Wall and they never stopped making their equivalent of the Tube U47. They also make the UM900 which is a good deal more pricey, but may be the best sounding mic I've ever heard.

The Brauner mics (there are two...the ValveIt and the VM1, I believe...one is dual pattern and about $2300, the other is a continuously variable pattern at about $3500) are unique in that, unlike your garden variety tube condenser mic, it has virtually no proximity effect, giving it an incredibly smooth response and a high end bordering on the frightening. These mics aren't for everyone...the engineer I trust above all others much prefers the Gefells, but I usually find myself ending up with the ValveIt over all else.

For mic pres check out Geoff Daking's boxes. It's basically a knock-off of the Trident A-Range mic pre/eq. Discrete Solid State, wonderful eq. These come in at about $1k/channel. If you feel like really going for the gusto give a listen to Doug Fearn's Tube Mic Pre. At roughly $1800/channel it ain't cheap, but since I got a pair it's virtually all I ever use. He says it's flat down to .5 Hz and I believe him.

So I said .02 and it ended up about .25.

Sue me, then...

------------------
Eric Bazilian/Dingbat Sound
"Music Is Good"

[music]

I won't sue you Eric. Thanks for info. Lots of avenues to explore.
.25 well spent!

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

[[Benjamin]]

I've been using the Microtech Geffel UM92 for a while now, and I find it a very nice mic (and it looks great), but I think that the M147 has just a bit more character in it, great for vocals, but then, also, great for drums (and for the kick! It's very close to the U47FET on drums)

As far as mic-pre's goes, check out the earthworks stereo micpre. I doubt it's possible to get a better micpre at that price. I even decided to go with the full package with 2 matched cardiods and one stereo micpre. (those cardiods are almost up to par with B&K's) I think it works out about $3000 something, which is pretty unbeatable for a package like that.

------------------
[HYPERSONIC]

[smack]

What do you all americans have to say about Groove tubes AM62 ?

[Robert U]

Hey music!

The AKG Solidtube is a really good mic considering the price. It works very well for male vocals, especially screaming one's. It give's a very fat warm and a lot of presence even if you the singer is screaming.

------------------
Robert

[music]

Thanks, Robert. Have you had any experience with other tube mics such as Rode's Tuber NTV? etc.

Smack I've read good things on AM 62 but have not heard. Sorry.

Keith

[mtoy]

I don't know a darn thing, so don't listen to me.

Hmm, $2k for a mic, $1k for a mic pre.

I'd be tempted to spend less on the microphone and more on the pre. There are a lot of great sounding mics for under $1K, and if you can arrange to listen to them, I am certain you can find one that you love. This will then leave you enough money to get a really great mic pre, which you will use forever, even after you've upgraded your main vocal mic.

See if you like the AT 4050, and the GT MD-1, they have both gotten a lot of work as vocal mics in my studio.

[talco]

You're getting some good advice on gear choices, especially the Brent Averill stuff.
(for all around performance I like the API 312's ) As for vocal mics I'll throw another option at you, the Soundeluxe U95.
My main advice however is to try to do direct comparison shootouts between the mics and/ or mic pres you're considering. Because if you're comparing really great gear, the only way to really tell what's best is to put one up against the other. That can be difficult but if you can get the contenders together in your studio and try them out on the app (male vox) that you want them for then you'll be able to choose with more confidence.

BTW in gear shootouts, sometimes it's real hard to quantify why you prefer one over the other, trust your instincts! Even if you decide you like the look of one over the other, go for it!
The gear kisser is back! http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif
Jules

P.S. the 4 x API rack has a blue light, how cool is that? I have one but regret no getting the mixer option for it....Smoooooooooooch!

[This message has been edited by Julian Standen (edited 11-10-99).]