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View Full Version : Why does my iLok software have to up to date to run Pro Tools 2018?


DJ Hellfire
03-07-2018, 07:45 AM
I did not move to the iLok cloud. My Pro Tools license still resides on my physical iLok.

So why is Pro Tools shutting down on me in the middle of working on a session and not allowing me to reopen in because I don't have the newest version of iLok Manager installed??? :confused:


UPDATE - 11/25/2018
Bump! THIS REALLY NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!!

It is absolutely unacceptable that Pro Tools just shuts down or crashes in the middle of working because a new version of iLok is available. I just had yet another CRASH in the middle of working on a session with only two tracks that is just playing back with no plugins or anything. When I relaunch, come to find out the crash happened because my iLok is out of date yet again. This is insane!

I currently have ILM 5.0.0 GM (b2398, r43164) installed.

guitardom
03-07-2018, 08:13 AM
They are tied into each and have dependencies on other for better or worse to work correctly. Plugins are the same.

Samanthas Dream
03-07-2018, 07:52 PM
Sure this is to fend off piracy.

spock999
03-08-2018, 02:02 PM
Have you tried to just update you iLok software ? If it does'nt work then you can post it here and some of the great forum Guru would help you !
But if you are NOT doing what Avid telling you to do and post here just to complain it's a wais of everybody's time mine and yours.

This is a fix the stuff you can fix and accept what you can't situation here ... Fix it and go back doing what you are suposed to be doing ... Music

DJ Hellfire
06-11-2018, 04:40 PM
This is ridiculous for a perpetual license! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Wanna just come into studio, launch Pro Tools and get right to work? Nope, have to go online and update my iLok software just to be able to use the iLok license to open Pro Tools.

Oh and if you happen to be actually WORKING while the system decides your iLok software is outdated, it just CLOSES your session WHILE YOU ARE WORKING!!!!

WTF?! Out of all of the years of iLok licensing, who the hell thought this was a good idea???


They are tied into each and have dependencies on other for better or worse to work correctly. Plugins are the same.

None of my other plugins or software does this. NONE!

Darryl Ramm
06-11-2018, 04:50 PM
It's an anti-piracy system. They update software to fix bugs and problems including possibly piracy issues. It's how it is, complaining about it is unlikely to haver any effect, if Avid did not want to be aggressive about enforcing licenses and deal with piracy they'd not be using iLok to start with.

But *while* you are working is brain dead... completely agree Avid needs to fix that crap.

DJ Hellfire
06-11-2018, 04:58 PM
It's an anti-piracy system. They update software to fix bugs and problems including possibly piracy issues. It's how it is, complaining about it is unlikely to haver any effect, if Avid did not want to be aggressive about enforcing licenses and deal with piracy they'd not be using iLok to start with.

But *while* you are working is brain dead... completely agree Avid needs to fix that crap.

Inconveniencing paying customers to "protect" against people who would never buy the software anyway is just stupid. There is anti-piracy, and then there is this crap that Avid has implemented. Two totally different things imo.

It's completely asinine to require both a physical license AND a 3rd party application to remain up-to-date just to use my product, especially when hackers will eventually crack it anyway. Piraters aren't shrinking your profits; lack of innovation IS! :rolleyes:

I can understand requiring iLok be up-to-date when updating Pro Tools and REFRESHING your license. But this random out-of-nowhere crap is completely senseless.

Darryl Ramm
06-11-2018, 05:28 PM
No it's not completely senseless, the ILM is part of the food chain of a vendor being able to verify there is a trustable license on a iLok.

*But* crapping on somebody's session while they are working is really not excusable and should be fixed. I expect you are unlikely to get any support/response to arguing Avid should remove ILM, you are likely to get support here to not messing with your session. Up to you to pick what battle you want to fight.

CygnusX-1Bk2
06-11-2018, 05:36 PM
It's completely asinine to require both a physical license AND a 3rd party application to remain up-to-date just to use my product


Actually the physical license is controlled by the software. You put the license(s) on the dongle through the software.

And that's not the problem it's the subscription that's the problem, even with a perpetual license.

Avid has been having issues with the renewals. I haven't had a session get interrupted with a perpetual license but I have had with a subscription only license.

DJ Hellfire
06-11-2018, 05:37 PM
No it's not completely senseless, the ILM is part of the food chain of a vendor being able to verify there is a trustable license on a iLok.


Completely disagree.

1.) This has never been this way until Pro Tools 2018.
2.) Out of the 100 or so iLok licenses I have, Pro Tools is the only one that now does this. The software is supposed to depend on the actual license, not the licensing utility manager. If my internet happened to go out while Pro Tools decides it wants me to update, I'd be screwed an unable to work until my internet is restored. This is completely stupid given I have a PHYSICAL license.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Actually the physical license is controlled by the software. You put the license(s) on the dongle through the software.

And that's not the problem it's the subscription that's the problem, even with a perpetual license.

Avid has been having issues with the renewals. I haven't had a session get interrupted with a perpetual license but I have had with a subscription only license.

Again, BS. This has never been a requirement until Pro Tools 2018. The physical license is NOT controlled by the software. The software only TRANSFERS the license to the iLok. Avid recently added some extra crap in there that checks for iLok manager version. I have Slate (also subscription), Antares, Soundtoys, AIR, Eventide, etc, and none of this software requires iLok Manager be up-to-date to use.

Samanthas Dream
06-11-2018, 08:40 PM
Completely disagree.

1.) This has never been this way until Pro Tools 2018.
2.) Out of the 100 or so iLok licenses I have, Pro Tools is the only one that now does this. The software is supposed to depend on the actual license, not the licensing utility manager. If my internet happened to go out while Pro Tools decides it wants me to update, I'd be screwed an unable to work until my internet is restored. This is completely stupid given I have a PHYSICAL license.

Let's just agree to disagree.



Again, BS. This has never been a requirement until Pro Tools 2018. The physical license is NOT controlled by the software. The software only TRANSFERS the license to the iLok. Avid recently added some extra crap in there that checks for iLok manager version. I have Slate (also subscription), Antares, Soundtoys, AIR, Eventide, etc, and none of this software requires iLok Manager be up-to-date to use.

I agree, additionally, unfortunately, I’m less inclined to even pay attention to Daryl anymore, he’s always confrontational and loves to talk to people like they are stupid.

You make excellent points, I would be equally upset.

Eric Lambert
06-11-2018, 08:53 PM
Come again?!?! You're saying that ProTools has quit in the middle of a session because it needed iLok software to be updated? I've never in my life experienced that, even now with 2018.x.

Darryl Ramm
06-11-2018, 10:04 PM
I agree, additionally, unfortunately, I’m less inclined to even pay attention to Daryl anymore, he’s always confrontational and loves to talk to people like they are stupid.



You make excellent points, I would be equally upset.


And you are adding value here how? I am pretty fed up with your whiney special child attitude and having to tiptoe around answering your questions
on DUC. And when I help you you say nothing but occasionally if you are misunderstanding something you refuse to listen and carry on like a petulant child.... like this post. Are you a teenager? God know how you get on with people in a work environment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Darryl Ramm
06-11-2018, 10:41 PM
Completely disagree.

1.) This has never been this way until Pro Tools 2018.
2.) Out of the 100 or so iLok licenses I have, Pro Tools is the only one that now does this. The software is supposed to depend on the actual license, not the licensing utility manager. If my internet happened to go out while Pro Tools decides it wants me to update, I'd be screwed an unable to work until my internet is restored. This is completely stupid given I have a PHYSICAL license.

Let's just agree to disagree.



Again, BS. This has never been a requirement until Pro Tools 2018. The physical license is NOT controlled by the software. The software only TRANSFERS the license to the iLok. Avid recently added some extra crap in there that checks for iLok manager version. I have Slate (also subscription), Antares, Soundtoys, AIR, Eventide, etc, and none of this software requires iLok Manager be up-to-date to use.


The iLok technology as used by Pro Tools in recent releases is *not* just an iLok dongle that the application software directly interfaces with. The ILM package is both the application you see and driver technology that goes between the iLok and the application. It had had the ability through the ILM to remote revoke licenses, to automatically update license, and I would expect to do other anti-piracy things that I won't speculate on publicly. Some of that likely requires the ILM to be up to minimal revisions at certain times. There has been points in time in the past where minimal ILM versions were required for Pro Tools, like the transition to iLok 2 with Pro Tools. It may have been less visible in some cases by the ILM updates being bundled with Pro Tools. And you may find some of the other software you use does actually have minimal revisions of ILM, even if the vendors don't always explain it clearly, e.g. in the past SoundToys has certainly required ILM updates to work correctly.

I understand you are upset, but my point is Avid is all-in with Pace/iLok licensing and the ILM and updates are therefore an integral part of their system. I am not defending that or saying they are right, but it is how it is, and they seem very committed to and dependent in the whole suite of Pace/iLok capabilities. Older software or other vendors may not be using those licensing features and their software therefore behaves differently with the ILM. Avid has made that commitment to Pace/iLok and likely need to do what they are doing if they want to securely support cloud licenses, rental licenses, have additional anti-piracy protection etc. I just expect complaining about the need for an up to date ILM which is central to these modern capabilities won't get you far.

On the other hand if the ILM update is messing up a running session, that is *awful*. Its a bug that should be fixed and I want to encourage you to report it as so, to separate that issue from your other frustration about ILM... in the chance that it will then get attention and get fixed. You might get maximum attention on the messing with a session issue by asking if other users have seem that behavior... I personally have never. But if others have I expect everybody here will be wanting to see that bug fixed asap.



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DJ Hellfire
06-12-2018, 06:30 PM
Come again?!?! You're saying that ProTools has quit in the middle of a session because it needed iLok software to be updated? I've never in my life experienced that, even now with 2018.x.

Yes. It did it when I first made this thread and again when I resurrected it. Both times a couple weeks after iLok Manager updates.

What happens is it randomly decides ILM needs to be updated. It then prompts you to save the session or quit. When you press save it saves and just quits. Then you cannot relaunch Pro Tools until you update ILM.

DJ Hellfire
06-12-2018, 06:39 PM
The iLok technology as used by Pro Tools in recent releases is *not* just an iLok dongle that the application software directly interfaces with. The ILM package is both the application you see and driver technology that goes between the iLok and the application. It had had the ability through the ILM to remote revoke licenses, to automatically update license, and I would expect to do other anti-piracy things that I won't speculate on publicly. Some of that likely requires the ILM to be up to minimal revisions at certain times. There has been points in time in the past where minimal ILM versions were required for Pro Tools, like the transition to iLok 2 with Pro Tools. It may have been less visible in some cases by the ILM updates being bundled with Pro Tools. And you may find some of the other software you use does actually have minimal revisions of ILM, even if the vendors don't always explain it clearly, e.g. in the past SoundToys has certainly required ILM updates to work correctly.

I understand you are upset, but my point is Avid is all-in with Pace/iLok licensing and the ILM and updates are therefore an integral part of their system. I am not defending that or saying they are right, but it is how it is, and they seem very committed to and dependent in the whole suite of Pace/iLok capabilities. Older software or other vendors may not be using those licensing features and their software therefore behaves differently with the ILM. Avid has made that commitment to Pace/iLok and likely need to do what they are doing if they want to securely support cloud licenses, rental licenses, have additional anti-piracy protection etc. I just expect complaining about the need for an up to date ILM which is central to these modern capabilities won't get you far.

On the other hand if the ILM update is messing up a running session, that is *awful*. Its a bug that should be fixed and I want to encourage you to report it as so, to separate that issue from your other frustration about ILM... in the chance that it will then get attention and get fixed. You might get maximum attention on the messing with a session issue by asking if other users have seem that behavior... I personally have never. But if others have I expect everybody here will be wanting to see that bug fixed asap.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perhaps. But in the past the only time I ever update ILM was when I bought a new plugin and needed to update the software to transfer the license. There were times I went nearly a year without updating ILM and Pro Tools never cared.

Anyway, I don’t actually expect them to change this. I just want to complain about it.

SigFriedChicken
06-12-2018, 09:28 PM
What version of iLok were you running before it shut down? Was it several versions out-of-date, like from years ago?

I've never had this happen before. I don't necessarily rush to update iLok when there is a new version, but I do get around to it within a few weeks or months.

If PT 2018 did this to a relatively recent version of iLok, I would agree that this is inappropriate.

jeffro
06-12-2018, 11:05 PM
Curious as well what version you had installed at the time. Any chance you can share the exact dialog text or a screenshot? There was a change back in August 2017 which was noted in Tech Alerts (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=393275), in the KB (http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/Error_Message/Authorization-exception-when-launching-Pro-Tools), and on iLok.com that required an iLok update, so can look into this to see if there was something similar for 2018 versions.

DJ Hellfire
06-15-2018, 08:27 AM
So when I first made this thread, I had the first version of ILM that introduced cloud licensing. When I resurrected this thread the other day, I had the prior version installed to the most recent. Now I have the most recent. So when pro tools gives me this error, I’m always only one version behind. Didn’t take a screenshot tho. I will next time.

Seems like when a new version of ILM releases, the previous version eventually expires. I got this error on 6/11. The most current ILM released on 5/29. So it seems it expires after about 2 weeks, which is ridiculous.

sdelsolray
06-15-2018, 09:27 AM
I suspect it would have taken less time to simply install the iLok software update than to type several rants.

DJ Hellfire
06-15-2018, 09:32 AM
I suspect it would have taken less time to simply install the iLok software update than to type several rants.

I suspect the forum doesn’t need yet another smart ass. :rolleyes:

But yeah, you’re right. We should just allow the software to shut down in the middle of the session and just remain silent and just update the software quietly like obedient little paying customers. :rolleyes:

SDDP
06-15-2018, 10:42 AM
Completely disagree.

1.) This has never been this way until Pro Tools 2018.
2.) Out of the 100 or so iLok licenses I have, Pro Tools is the only one that now does this. The software is supposed to depend on the actual license, not the licensing utility manager. If my internet happened to go out while Pro Tools decides it wants me to update, I'd be screwed an unable to work until my internet is restored. This is completely stupid given I have a PHYSICAL license.

Let's just agree to disagree.



Again, BS. This has never been a requirement until Pro Tools 2018. The physical license is NOT controlled by the software. The software only TRANSFERS the license to the iLok. Avid recently added some extra crap in there that checks for iLok manager version. I have Slate (also subscription), Antares, Soundtoys, AIR, Eventide, etc, and none of this software requires iLok Manager be up-to-date to use.


WHOA!

I am so hoping this is an isolated incident!
This can be a deal breaker on SO MANY levels. Most (actually all now) Studio's, networks do NOT have access for internet on their macs these days. One needs to get IT/Engineering to come down (which is not in 5 minutes, but requires a support ticket and then they come when they can)
So if you're on a Network studio mixing a promo and this issue occurs and that spot needs to go out and air. That can be stressful if ProTools just quits.

Second, this can be a deal breaker for someone mixing remotely. As on a plane, a hotel, traveling abroad, or anywhere else where the is NO INTERNET available. Defeats the use of ProTools on the go


Most embarrassing would be if you're in the middle of a final mix with a producer/director sitting next to you and this happens.

I can go on and on with examples of real life scenarios that can be a deal breaker or just an embarrassment.

So yeah, I can see how this can be more than just frustrating.

According to Murphy's Law, these issues do not happen at an opportune time

DJ Hellfire
06-15-2018, 11:13 AM
Exactly SDDP. It doesn’t matter how quick it is to just do the update. The fact of the matter is that this should not be happening to paying customers to protect against a handful of pirates that aren’t going to buy the software anyway. I hope this is just a bug.

SigFriedChicken
06-15-2018, 01:04 PM
There's probably a "grace" period that ends after a while, meaning that they'll let you run an older of the iLok software for a while, but eventually the grace period runs out.

It sounds like they could do better job of giving you warnings. Maybe a window that pops up periodically that explains "Warning: You have X days left before Pro Tools will stop recognizing your version of iLok and you won't be able to use PT anymore. Upgrade your version of iLok as soon as possible, etc."

SigFriedChicken
06-15-2018, 01:06 PM
I just opened ILM and got this message:

"Updating to version 4.1.2 is not a required update; however, some iLok-protected software may require that you use a version of 2.5.0 or greater. Please download the latest version from the iLok License Manager page of ilok.com."

Is it possible that a version prior to 2.5 was installed when this happened?

DJ Hellfire
06-15-2018, 02:09 PM
There's probably a "grace" period that ends after a while, meaning that they'll let you run an older of the iLok software for a while, but eventually the grace period runs out.

It sounds like they could do better job of giving you warnings. Maybe a window that pops up periodically that explains "Warning: You have X days left before Pro Tools will stop recognizing your version of iLok and you won't be able to use PT anymore. Upgrade your version of iLok as soon as possible, etc."

This would be acceptable I think. Slate does something similar. They tell you how many days are left before you need to refresh your subscription. But the ILM version doesn’t matter.

I just opened ILM and got this message:

"Updating to version 4.1.2 is not a required update; however, some iLok-protected software may require that you use a version of 2.5.0 or greater. Please download the latest version from the iLok License Manager page of ilok.com."

Is it possible that a version prior to 2.5 was installed when this happened?

Yes, when I got the messages, I had the most prior version. I have been updating ILM every time Pro Tools forces me to.

DJ Hellfire
11-25-2018, 07:22 AM
Bump! THIS REALLY NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!!

It is absolutely unacceptable that Pro Tools just shuts down or crashes in the middle of working because a new version of iLok is available. I just had yet another CRASH in the middle of working on a session with only two tracks that is just playing back with no plugins or anything. When I relaunch, come to find out the crash happened because my iLok is out of date yet again. This is insane! :mad::mad::mad:

amagras
11-25-2018, 07:29 AM
Could be a Mac thing? because I only get notifications of new ILM versions when I expressly open the app and have never had a crash related to that. I usually skip updates unless they say it's crucial.

JFreak
11-25-2018, 07:56 AM
AFAIK, it only closes if your license manager is too old or the PT license cannot be found, as in accidentally taking the key offline.

The last point is what I REALLY HATE and it started in v9 -- it totally ruins stability in tracking sessions / live mixing because all you need is the computer somehow decides the usb port needs to be shut down or (more likely) you just hit the key and it powers off. This can lead to ruining a perfect take or stopping live performance. IOW, the last "stable" version is 8.1.1

I so would want Avid to get real and give us the option to have PT license on host computer if this "feature" cannot be removed...

sdelsolray
11-25-2018, 09:33 AM
I thought that ProTools only checked the iLok for the license when it first booted up and not during the ensuing session. Did something change?

DJ Hellfire
11-25-2018, 09:37 AM
I thought that ProTools only checked the iLok for the license when it first booted up and not during the ensuing session. Did something change?

Yes. Somewhere after 2018, it now seems to periodically check while the software is running. So now, not only does it require the iLok to be plugged in with a valid license on it, it now requires the manager software to be installed an up to date. The the physical iLok alone is no longer enough!

sdelsolray
11-25-2018, 12:30 PM
Yes. Somewhere after 2018, it now seems to periodically check while the software is running. So now, not only does it require the iLok to be plugged in with a valid license on it, it now requires the manager software to be installed an up to date. The the physical iLok alone is no longer enough!

Do you have empirical evidence to validate the bolded part, i.e., not speculation?

Top Jimmy
11-25-2018, 12:37 PM
Bump! THIS REALLY NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!!



It is absolutely unacceptable that Pro Tools just shuts down or crashes in the middle of working because a new version of iLok is available. I just had yet another CRASH in the middle of working on a session with only two tracks that is just playing back with no plugins or anything. When I relaunch, come to find out the crash happened because my iLok is out of date yet again. This is insane! :mad::mad::mad:



Per your attached picture, it isn’t stating that the ilok software needs updating, it’s stating that the ilok service isn’t running. I would investigate on your machine why the service seems to be quitting. This is not an “update required to run” message.