PDA

View Full Version : A 3rd mic


Sable904
08-03-2015, 11:10 AM
I have already 2 mics going thru my scarlett interface. Now all I have is the 11 Rack with a mic input. How do I go about getting the 3rd mic from the 11 rack to pro tools? Thanks

Benoni
08-03-2015, 11:29 AM
So you are using two interfaces? How are they connected? What interface are you using for Pro Tools?

Sable904
08-03-2015, 12:38 PM
I'm waiting for the 3rd mic in the mail. That will plugin to the 11 rack. The other two go into each two Focusrite microphone preamps.

Benoni
08-03-2015, 03:16 PM
I'm waiting for the 3rd mic in the mail. That will plugin to the 11 rack. The other two go into each two Focusrite microphone preamps.

I mean, how have you connected the Interfaces together? The Focusrite and the 11R, how are they connected to each other? SPDIF? Which are you using as the MAIN interface for Pro Tools?

Are you Mac or Windows? On Mac there is something called "Aggregate", but not on Windows.

I'm a Windows user, so I can't help if you want to go the Aggregate route, but the best way to connect the interfaces would be SPDIF, assuming the Focusrite has SPDIF.

You could actually do 3 mics with just the Eleven Rack if you have a 2+ channel mic preamp. One mic in the main Mic input, the other two into the Mic Pre that runs into the Line IN on the back. In fact I might do a video on this as it's asked quiet often.

Amack
08-03-2015, 03:45 PM
He should be able to use the mic preamps in the focusrite connected to the ER line inputs (like you said). He just has to setup the mixer in the focusrite to an appropriate outputs.

I mean, how have you connected the Interfaces together? The Focusrite and the 11R, how are they connected to each other? SPDIF? Which are you using as the MAIN interface for Pro Tools?

Are you Mac or Windows? On Mac there is something called "Aggregate", but not on Windows.

I'm a Windows user, so I can't help if you want to go the Aggregate route, but the best way to connect the interfaces would be SPDIF, assuming the Focusrite has SPDIF.

You could actually do 3 mics with just the Eleven Rack if you have a 2+ channel mic preamp. One mic in the main Mic input, the other two into the Mic Pre that runs into the Line IN on the back. In fact I might do a video on this as it's asked quiet often.

Sable904
08-04-2015, 03:34 AM
I mean, how have you connected the Interfaces together? The Focusrite and the 11R, how are they connected to each other? SPDIF? Which are you using as the MAIN interface for Pro Tools?

Are you Mac or Windows? On Mac there is something called "Aggregate", but not on Windows.

I'm a Windows user, so I can't help if you want to go the Aggregate route, but the best way to connect the interfaces would be SPDIF, assuming the Focusrite has SPDIF.

You could actually do 3 mics with just the Eleven Rack if you have a 2+ channel mic preamp. One mic in the main Mic input, the other two into the Mic Pre that runs into the Line IN on the back. In fact I might do a video on this as it's asked quiet often.

Yes the connection between the 11rack and focusright is a spdif connection.
Im a windows user. Im sorry but I do not know what you mean as main interface? For right now I'm just getting use to Pro Tools. so I have the focus right on but using pro tools to be accustom to it.
I have to look up the term Aggregate. Yes that would be nice if you did a video on this. Thanks for your input.

Sable904
08-04-2015, 03:35 AM
He should be able to use the mic preamps in the focusrite connected to the ER line inputs (like you said). He just has to setup the mixer in the focusrite to an appropriate outputs.

I will give that a try as soon as I get the mic. Thank you.

dr_daw
08-04-2015, 08:38 AM
Yes the connection between the 11rack and focusright is a spdif connection.
Im a windows user. Im sorry but I do not know what you mean as main interface? For right now I'm just getting use to Pro Tools. so I have the focus right on but using pro tools to be accustom to it.
I have to look up the term Aggregate. Yes that would be nice if you did a video on this. Thanks for your input.

Hello again Sable,

If you have the 11R connected to the Scarlette via Spdif, then you're main interface is likely the Scarlette. The best way to figure this out would be to look in Pro Tools under the Options tab, Hardware. This is where you select which device you're going to use.

Then to ensure you have the Spdif available in Pro Tools, you'll need to go to the I/O section in the Options tab. Then go to 'Inputs', from here you can check to ensure that Spdif in is available as an input. If it is not, then you just 'Add path' and select SPDIF L/R.

After that, the SPDIF input should be able to be selected as an input path in your session.

Note: This will still be the same setup if in fact the 11R is your main interface. But the easiest way to determine that...which one is plugged into the USB on your machine? Which one controls the volume and playback of your audio? That is your main interface.

As for Aggregate, there's no need to look that up as you're a PC user. Focus on the tasks at hand. Also, if you go to the Help menu in Pro Tools and click on Reference Manual, you can search I/O setup and it will give you a step by step procedure on how to setup your I/O. The manual for ProTools is extensive and extremely useful.

Cheers,

Amack
08-04-2015, 08:52 AM
You'd likely be better off using the Eleven Rack as your main (only PT) interface (the Pro Tools "Playback Engine" ). The Focusrite "mic Preamps" would connect to it via either line or PDIF inputs. Connecting to the line inputs would probably provide the best timing match when recording (there is very little delay thru the Scarlett mixers). :-)

This assumes you have a Scarlett interface! :o

I will give that a try as soon as I get the mic. Thank you.

Sable904
08-04-2015, 09:55 AM
Hello again Sable,

If you have the 11R connected to the Scarlette via Spdif, then you're main interface is likely the Scarlette. The best way to figure this out would be to look in Pro Tools under the Options tab, Hardware. This is where you select which device you're going to use.

Then to ensure you have the Spdif available in Pro Tools, you'll need to go to the I/O section in the Options tab. Then go to 'Inputs', from here you can check to ensure that Spdif in is available as an input. If it is not, then you just 'Add path' and select SPDIF L/R.

After that, the SPDIF input should be able to be selected as an input path in your session.

Note: This will still be the same setup if in fact the 11R is your main interface. But the easiest way to determine that...which one is plugged into the USB on your machine? Which one controls the volume and playback of your audio? That is your main interface.

As for Aggregate, there's no need to look that up as you're a PC user. Focus on the tasks at hand. Also, if you go to the Help menu in Pro Tools and click on Reference Manual, you can search I/O setup and it will give you a step by step procedure on how to setup your I/O. The manual for ProTools is extensive and extremely useful.

Cheers,

Thanks so much for your input. Much appreciated. Ty

Sable904
08-04-2015, 09:57 AM
You'd likely be better off using the Eleven Rack as your main (only PT) interface (the Pro Tools "Playback Engine" ). The Focusrite "mic Preamps" would connect to it via either line or PDIF inputs. Connecting to the line inputs would probably provide the best timing match when recording (there is very little delay thru the Scarlett mixers). :-)

This assumes you have a Scarlett interface! :o

Yes I have the Scarlett interface. I will try all the comments from all and see which ends up best. Thanks a bunch.

Sable904
08-04-2015, 10:00 AM
Yes I have the Scarlett interface. I will try all the comments from all and see which ends up best. Thanks a bunch.

I do apologize for being a newbie so my questions may sound elementary. Ty

Amack
08-04-2015, 10:53 AM
Don't apologize - that's what the DUC is supposed to be for (I think!) When you ask questions like this there are likely many others that can benefit - especially if you post follow-ups relating your experiences.

You should know that Focusrite has been trying for a least a year (as yet unsuccessfully) to get the Scarletts to operate properly with Pro Tools on PCs. With the apparent exception of record latency compensation, the Eleven Rack does work well with Pro Tools. ;)

I do apologize for being a newbie so my questions may sound elementary. Ty

Sable904
08-04-2015, 01:03 PM
Thanks so much for your input. Much appreciated. Ty

BTW, what is the average height that a mic should be above the cymbals? I only have 3 mic so I will put one there and another at the bass and one next to the snare. If that is a general rule for what I have or any other suggestions of placement? Thanks

dr_daw
08-04-2015, 01:56 PM
BTW, what is the average height that a mic should be above the cymbals? I only have 3 mic so I will put one there and another at the bass and one next to the snare. If that is a general rule for what I have or any other suggestions of placement? Thanks


There is a rule, and it's called the 3:1 rule and it refers to maintaining phase between the Cymbals/Snare and Kick.

This can be a tedious process but when you get it locked in, the difference in drum sound is noticeable. The great thing abouT DAW's is that you can do a quick take, go into the control room, zoom in and check to ensure that your Waveforms are in phase.

For myself when I'm using this technique (3 mics) I go with a AKG D112 in the one o'clock quadrant of my kick (but that's just for my particular DW kit and the sound I'm looking for), for snare; the Sure SM57 is placed in the 11 oclock area between my HH and Tom pointing towards the centre of the snare, as for my OH; yesterday, I finally got my phase to be locked in about 3' back from the kit and about 6.5' to 7' high. This will change depending on your room, depending on the sound you're going for.

As mentioned before, if you have the space, I suggest you look up the Glynn Johns method of miking drums. While you're at it, check out a video on the 3:1 rule to get a better idea. Miking drums can be hit or miss on the first shot, you almost always have to make small adjustments.

Cheers,

Sable904
08-04-2015, 03:06 PM
There is a rule, and it's called the 3:1 rule and it refers to maintaining phase between the Cymbals/Snare and Kick.

This can be a tedious process but when you get it locked in, the difference in drum sound is noticeable. The great thing abouT DAW's is that you can do a quick take, go into the control room, zoom in and check to ensure that your Waveforms are in phase.

For myself when I'm using this technique (3 mics) I go with a AKG D112 in the one o'clock quadrant of my kick (but that's just for my particular DW kit and the sound I'm looking for), for snare; the Sure SM57 is placed in the 11 oclock area between my HH and Tom pointing towards the centre of the snare, as for my OH; yesterday, I finally got my phase to be locked in about 3' back from the kit and about 6.5' to 7' high. This will change depending on your room, depending on the sound you're going for.

As mentioned before, if you have the space, I suggest you look up the Glynn Johns method of miking drums. While you're at it, check out a video on the 3:1 rule to get a better idea. Miking drums can be hit or miss on the first shot, you almost always have to make small adjustments.

Cheers,

I will take a look at the video3:1 and thanks again for chiming in..:)

Sable904
08-04-2015, 04:55 PM
I will take a look at the video3:1 and thanks again for chiming in..:)

I took a look at the video but was confused with his xy position and his ab spacing. I know the kick mic placement but as for the other 2 mics should one be placed on the left and right above or near ear level when seated for the drummer or on near the snare and the other above the drummer? I do under stand room acoustics and what may sound good to one listener may sound off to another, I guess, all in all if your content with the placement to ur ears, then that may all that counts ? And one last thing is how can you tell of the wave form when recorded, in phase or out of phase, where do I look for that, Pro Tools? Thanks

dr_daw
08-04-2015, 05:37 PM
I took a look at the video but was confused with his xy position and his ab spacing. I know the kick mic placement but as for the other 2 mics should one be placed on the left and right above or near ear level when seated for the drummer or on near the snare and the other above the drummer? I do under stand room acoustics and what may sound good to one listener may sound off to another, I guess, all in all if your content with the placement to ur ears, then that may all that counts ? And one last thing is how can you tell of the wave form when recorded, in phase or out of phase, where do I look for that, Pro Tools? Thanks


BEcause of the technique that you're using, you won't need to worry about X/Y technique. That's for Stereo OH placement. I would just stick with your plan on kick, throw the 57 on snare, the move the OH mic around until it sounds good.

Once you think it sounds good, then go to the edit window, make sure 'Tab to transient' is turned on and tab to a snare hit. Then Zoom in on the Snare and OH track to ensure that both waveforms are moving in the same direction. Then do the same with the kick. If it's not and one is going down and the other is going up. Load a plugin that has a phase flip option and flip the phase and listen to the difference.

If it sounds fuller, chances are it's now in phase, if not, then you're going to have to move your OH mic a bit. If you're like me, I wasn't happy with flipping the phase, so keep moving the Mic until you get it in phase.

Sounds like you may benefit from some Audio engineering books to get the physics of certain things. I suggest 'Modern Recording Techniques' and maybe get a subscription to 'Recording' mag.

Sable904
08-05-2015, 08:30 AM
BEcause of the technique that you're using, you won't need to worry about X/Y technique. That's for Stereo OH placement. I would just stick with your plan on kick, throw the 57 on snare, the move the OH mic around until it sounds good.

Once you think it sounds good, then go to the edit window, make sure 'Tab to transient' is turned on and tab to a snare hit. Then Zoom in on the Snare and OH track to ensure that both waveforms are moving in the same direction. Then do the same with the kick. If it's not and one is going down and the other is going up. Load a plugin that has a phase flip option and flip the phase and listen to the difference.

If it sounds fuller, chances are it's now in phase, if not, then you're going to have to move your OH mic a bit. If you're like me, I wasn't happy with flipping the phase, so keep moving the Mic until you get it in phase.

Sounds like you may benefit from some Audio engineering books to get the physics of certain things. I suggest 'Modern Recording Techniques' and maybe get a subscription to 'Recording' mag.

Thanks for a better idea and ur right I will pick up a book like you mentioned.. Thanks so much. oh yeah, what about mic shock mounts? A necessity or not? TY

dr_daw
08-05-2015, 09:38 AM
Only for the condenser mic really. If you ordered the NT1 kit, it should come with one.

Sable904
08-05-2015, 10:39 AM
BEcause of the technique that you're using, you won't need to worry about X/Y technique. That's for Stereo OH placement. I would just stick with your plan on kick, throw the 57 on snare, the move the OH mic around until it sounds good.

Once you think it sounds good, then go to the edit window, make sure 'Tab to transient' is turned on and tab to a snare hit. Then Zoom in on the Snare and OH track to ensure that both waveforms are moving in the same direction. Then do the same with the kick. If it's not and one is going down and the other is going up. Load a plugin that has a phase flip option and flip the phase and listen to the difference.

If it sounds fuller, chances are it's now in phase, if not, then you're going to have to move your OH mic a bit. If you're like me, I wasn't happy with flipping the phase, so keep moving the Mic until you get it in phase.

Sounds like you may benefit from some Audio engineering books to get the physics of certain things. I suggest 'Modern Recording Techniques' and maybe get a subscription to 'Recording' mag.

sorry quick question how do you "Then Zoom in on the Snare and OH track to ensure that both waveforms are moving in the same direction" ? Thanks

dr_daw
08-05-2015, 11:31 AM
The quickest way is to use keyboard short cuts

width zoom = Windows key + [ Use ] to go the other direction

The best thing you can do is look up keyboard short cuts (go to the help menu, they're there) and make a list of the ones you think you're going to use most frequently

Sable904
08-05-2015, 03:32 PM
The quickest way is to use keyboard short cuts

width zoom = Windows key + [ Use ] to go the other direction

The best thing you can do is look up keyboard short cuts (go to the help menu, they're there) and make a list of the ones you think you're going to use most frequently

I misinterpreted what was being said, my bad

Hopefully my last question for awhile at least,lol..I have 5 mics now. One into the 11 rack and two in front of the Focusrite and two in the back of the focusrite. So my question is do I monitor thru the 11 rack or look at the focusrite. I want to be able to add chorus and compression if need be and to be aable to pan left and or right? Thank you all :)

dr_daw
08-05-2015, 05:07 PM
I misinterpreted what was being said, my bad

Hopefully my last question for awhile at least,lol..I have 5 mics now. One into the 11 rack and two in front of the Focusrite and two in the back of the focusrite. So my question is do I monitor thru the 11 rack or look at the focusrite. I want to be able to add chorus and compression if need be and to be aable to pan left and or right? Thank you all :)


Are you referring to monitoring while you're recording? Chances are you don't need to hear all the inputs while you're recording (if you're the drummer) as they will be masked by the volume of the actual kit. In that case, it's the same for and 'chorus', which I've never experienced on drums. Compression is fine, but really unnecessary during tracking if you're going to mix in the box.

Now, if you're in a different room and someone else is playing drums. Just focus on recording the track. Worry about adding effects and processing during the mixing/editing phase. It can be done to add while you're recording. I tend to er on the side of caution and reserve valuable system resources while tracking.

The last thing you want is your system to drop because you're ****** around with FX or compression settings in pluggins. Believe me it happens, resulting in not capturing the 'best' take and ruining the flow of the session.

Sable904
08-06-2015, 02:23 AM
Are you referring to monitoring while you're recording? Chances are you don't need to hear all the inputs while you're recording (if you're the drummer) as they will be masked by the volume of the actual kit. In that case, it's the same for and 'chorus', which I've never experienced on drums. Compression is fine, but really unnecessary during tracking if you're going to mix in the box.

Now, if you're in a different room and someone else is playing drums. Just focus on recording the track. Worry about adding effects and processing during the mixing/editing phase. It can be done to add while you're recording. I tend to er on the side of caution and reserve valuable system resources while tracking.

The last thing you want is your system to drop because you're ****** around with FX or compression settings in pluggins. Believe me it happens, resulting in not capturing the 'best' take and ruining the flow of the session.

I appreciate your input in getting me going in the right rack. Last question I have the Focusrite as a short cut on the desktop along with Pro Tools. Is there a way if I'm in either or to pull up one or the other or just open both side by side or so? Thank you.

dr_daw
08-06-2015, 06:32 AM
What version of PT are you using? If you're using PT 12.1 then I would just monitor through PT's. Otherwise just take some time to set your levels (-12dbfs or so on the meters) then go over to PT and track. Otherwise, without two monitors the easiest way is the Windows button + Tab to flip between screens

Sable904
08-06-2015, 08:09 AM
What version of PT are you using? If you're using PT 12.1 then I would just monitor through PT's. Otherwise just take some time to set your levels (-12dbfs or so on the meters) then go over to PT and track. Otherwise, without two monitors the easiest way is the Windows button + Tab to flip between screens
Thanks :)

Amack
08-06-2015, 08:21 AM
You should be able to have your Scarlett's "Mix Control" open along with PT (just like any other window).

I appreciate your input in getting me going in the right rack. Last question I have the Focusrite as a short cut on the desktop along with Pro Tools. Is there a way if I'm in either or to pull up one or the other or just open both side by side or so? Thank you.