A Modest Proposal, to the Pro Tools Community

[JCBigler]

Since Avid is now offering support plans, I would like to offer this modest proposal to the Community of Protools Users:

That we should no longer offer support or technical advise for Protools on this, or any other web forum. Instead, we should encourage Protools Users to buy a support plan and contact Avid with their troubleshooting requests.

Since Avid is banking the income they get from support plans, they should also have to expend the financial and man power resources to deal with those issues themselves and not have them offered for free by the Community.

So, from here on out, any question about a troubleshooting issue or system incompatibility, or possible bugs should only be answered by directing that person to use their Avid Support Plan, or to buy an Avid Support Plan.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

The bulk of the issues come from non-pros who should learn how to resolve their own issues anyway so I am with you JC.
:D

[mesaone]

Hmm.. To "get back" at Avid for a perceived slight, you're trying to rally people for punitive action against forum-goers?

This is either a Jonathan Swift joke, or an unfortunately ironic instance of Poe's Law in action. Let's see who takes the bait.

[lexaudio]

Well, I don't see AVID changing the support hours, adding staff to support it or offering weekends either.

The want you to pay for what they know you aren't going to use because you can't, time difference and this and other boards.

[25ghosts]

Since Avid is now offering support plans, I would like to offer this modest proposal to the Community of Protools Users:

That we should no longer offer support or technical advise for Protools on this, or any other web forum. Instead, we should encourage Protools Users to buy a support plan and contact Avid with their troubleshooting requests.

Since Avid is banking the income they get from support plans, they should also have to expend the financial and man power resources to deal with those issues themselves and not have them offered for free by the Community.

So, from here on out, any question about a troubleshooting issue or system incompatibility, or possible bugs should only be answered by directing that person to use their Avid Support Plan, or to buy an Avid Support Plan.

The best way IMO to get fast and profound support, is THIS very forum. It costs nothing and hurts nobody and has been a great source for lots of debates and support incidents. Why none and void such a great resource.

If anything, we should all rally up and encourage AVID to actually READ this forum. If Protools would incorporate the feedback and ideas of this forum, the entire world would be using Protools !

[rockridge]

...we should no longer offer support or technical advise for Protools...

You know, the people coming up today, say under 25, might actually be in need of more support... and Avid is seeing this.

The vast majority do everything on their cell phones, who needs a computer.
No one... until you decide to jump into a DAW.

Now they'll go from 'plug 'n play' smart phones to troubleshooting computers and software.

[25ghosts]

You know, the people coming up today, say under 25, might actually be in need of more support... and Avid is seeing this.

The vast majority do everything on their cell phones, who needs a computer.
No one... until you decide to jump into a DAW.

Now they'll go from 'plug 'n play' smart phones to troubleshooting computers and software.

Today's Cell-Phones ARE computers. And they are WAY more powerful than the Computers on which PT ran when it was released !

[JCBigler]

Today's Cell-Phones ARE computers. And they are WAY more powerful than the Computers on which PT ran when it was released !Try running Protools, or burning a CD, or even just typing a document on a cell phone...

They may be computers in the literal sense that they crunch data with digital 1s and 0s, but they do not process data in the same way. Even trying to type a document or spread sheet on a tablet is an irritating and frustrating experience.

Real computers will remain the primary tool of people that actually work for a living in many, many different fields for at least the next 100 years.

[rockridge]

The other point I'd make is I wouldn't be surprised if Avid comes out with a touch control surface, running it's own OS... maybe Linux, that will be like a giant cellphone dedicated to running pro tools.

A mixer, a DAW, a computer with all necessary connections... all in one.
Turn key... and totally self contained.

There's been talk in the past about something like this, but now the time make be coming.

[Park Seward]

If anything, we should all rally up and encourage AVID to actually READ this forum. If Protools would incorporate the feedback and ideas of this forum, the entire world would be using Protools !

Yes, Avid is asking all bug reporters to file the bugs on ideascape so they can be viewed and listed in that data base. I've also recommended that Avid list the bugs they find do we know what they are working on.

Avid recommends reporting how the bug happens so they can duplicate the issue.

[mesaone]

Today's Cell-Phones ARE computers. And they are WAY more powerful than the Computers on which PT ran when it was released !

Today's mobile apps also require more computing horsepower than PT did when it was first released.

On the other hand, a lot can be done with a mobile platform if you build for it specifically. Just look at Auria; 24 bit 96 kHz tracking and mixing, 48 tracks total and 24 recording simultaneously.

[Ghost In The Attic]

I feel we should keep offering support on the DUC, so user's DON'T have to sign up for a support plan. Many will be locking their systems at 11 or 12 and I feel we should be here to help them. Otherwise we are encouraging users to buy into Avid's plan. I cannot be a part of that in good conscience.

[25ghosts]

Try running Protools, or burning a CD, or even just typing a document on a cell phone...


That is merely because the apps made for phones are not made like that. But if one wanted, it would be absolutely NO problem to do with the horsepower that a smart phone like the iPhone6 has... No problem at all.

They may be computers in the literal sense that they crunch data with digital 1s and 0s, but they do not process data in the same way.
LOL


Even trying to type a document or spread sheet on a tablet is an irritating and frustrating experience.


Get yourself an external keyboard.


Real computers will remain the primary tool of people that actually work for a living in many, many different fields for at least the next 100 years.

They are real computers. Whether your like it or not. You have got to get your head around that ;-)

[YYR123]

I cannot be a part of that in good conscience.


A conscientious objector? $^)

[Bill Denton]

Since Avid is now offering support plans, I would like to offer this modest proposal to the Community of Protools Users:

That we should no longer offer support or technical advise for Protools on this, or any other web forum. Instead, we should encourage Protools Users to buy a support plan and contact Avid with their troubleshooting requests.

Since Avid is banking the income they get from support plans, they should also have to expend the financial and man power resources to deal with those issues themselves and not have them offered for free by the Community.

So, from here on out, any question about a troubleshooting issue or system incompatibility, or possible bugs should only be answered by directing that person to use their Avid Support Plan, or to buy an Avid Support Plan.

And one day you will need some help, but since all of the morons who've followed your advise will have the phone lines blocked, you will be so screwed...and I won't be able to do anything except laugh for about a week.

And you might want to do a little careful reading of some of the other posts on here...at least a few of the folks at Avid appear to be smarter than you are because the service plan states they can cut off your phone privileges if you abuse them...

[mesaone]

Okay, since this thread started with what is (to me) obviously a joke, but people are taking it seriously, let me throw this out there.

A Modest Proposal was a satirical essay in which the author suggested that poor Irish families could better their ecomonic situation by selling their children... To rich people, as food. I do see the humor in this overblown metaphor that Justice is hinting at... The impoverished countrymen (Pro Tools users) sell their children (new users asking forum questions) to the rich (Avid) for food (money).

But, as happened with the original essay at the time, not everyone recognizes the satire. Kudos to Justice for the attempt, but I think this audience is a bit too wrapped up to make it out.

[YYR123]

Besides all that ^^

I had at one time assumed they would charge a premium for access to the DUC, and that would be part of the support plan, as a added benefit.

No support plan, then off to GS or FB for you


I hope not but who knows

[JCBigler]

Okay, since this thread started with what is (to me) obviously a joke, but people are taking it seriously, let me throw this out there.

A Modest Proposal was a satirical essay in which the author suggested that poor Irish families could better their ecomonic situation by selling their children... To rich people, as food. I do see the humor in this overblown metaphor that Justice is hinting at... The impoverished countrymen (Pro Tools users) sell their children (new users asking forum questions) to the rich (Avid) for food (money).

But, as happened with the original essay at the time, not everyone recognizes the satire. Kudos to Justice for the attempt, but I think this audience is a bit too wrapped up to make it out.
Uuhhh...Yeah...that's the ticket! ;)

[mesaone]

Uuhhh...Yeah...that's the ticket! ;)
You mean to tell me you didn't carefully choose a metaphor? It must have been a mistake that you capitalized "A Modest Proposal" in the title! [emoji1]

Come on, now...

[JCBigler]

You mean to tell me you didn't carefully choose a metaphor? It must have been a mistake that you capitalized "A Modest Proposal" in the title! [emoji1]

Come on, now...
Perhaps...Really though, I just figured that Avid needed a swift kick in john-son... :cool:

[longname]

I feel we should keep offering support on the DUC, so user's DON'T have to sign up for a support plan. Many will be locking their systems at 11 or 12 and I feel we should be here to help them. Otherwise we are encouraging users to buy into Avid's plan. I cannot be a part of that in good conscience.

+1 :D

[ArKay99]

Real computers will remain the primary tool of people that actually work for a living in many, many different fields for at least the next 100 years.
I also heard you'll never need more than 64k of memory...:D
Yes, Avid is asking all bug reporters to file the bugs on ideascape so they can be viewed and listed in that data base. I've also recommended that Avid list the bugs they find do we know what they are working on.

Avid recommends reporting how the bug happens so they can duplicate the issue.
All my bugs happen when I use Pro Tools... ;)

[deanrichard]

I would pay a premium if they would stop Bill from posting.

Besides all that ^^

I had at one time assumed they would charge a premium for access to the DUC, and that would be part of the support plan, as a added benefit.

No support plan, then off to GS or FB for you


I hope not but who knows

[feliponk]

The moderators that doesn't work for Avid, like myself (I left the company 2 years ago), are doing this for free, because we believe we can help other users with their issues, while sharing experience, when we can.

This is a kind of romantic way of thinking, sharing the knowledge and empowering the learning process, knowledge is power and sharing the power is good (personally I think that Job Security thing is nothing but bullsh*t).

I still believe we should keep doing this, at least I will, because I enjoy it.

Cheers! :cool:

[Southsidemusic]

Well said Felipe :-)

Why would we ever think of punishing the users who need help because some have issues with Avid ...

[Bob Olhsson]

...Real computers will remain the primary tool of people that actually work for a living in many, many different fields for at least the next 100 years.I have serious doubts about that. Dedicated devices make way more sense from a standpoint of reliability, speed and security for both developer and user than Swiss Army Knife computers. As hardware prices plummet, the cost advantage of Swiss Army Knife computers is going away in a hurry.

[25ghosts]

I have serious doubts about that. Dedicated devices make way more sense from a standpoint of reliability, speed and security for both developer and user than Swiss Army Knife computers. As hardware prices plummet, the cost advantage of Swiss Army Knife computers is going away in a hurry.

2 Years ago, I had a Mac Pro 8 Core with a PTHD 3 System. The MP had 2 graphic cards to be able to really handle 2 large displays.

At that time, I purchased a rMBP for my personal use. It had a 512GB SSD and two thunderbolt ports. In a session, maxing out my studio rig using both the DSP on the HD cards and the internal CPU (RTAS) on the Mac I decided, for giggles, to load up that session on the rMBP. It opened swiftly which amazed me, but I thought that would be due to the fast SSD. Hitting the spacebar, I was thinking that nothing would happen..... What happened was that the little big guy (rMBP) began playing back as if nothing was passing a load on its CPU. So -- I opened the CPU Meter... Since that moment, I needed a facelift, as my jaws dropped so heavily as my eyes caught the CPU meter which never surpassed 20%...

The next day, I did lots of tests. Bought a thunderbolt RAID enclosure and in that seated all my drives. The next day, eBay was featuring my Mac Pro and my HD3 system.... new price - $+20k -- Replace by a silly looking rMBP with a thunderbold cable...

Oh - I almost forgot... The rMBP runs, incl. its own display, 3 additional displays on top. So I had / have the luxury of 4 displays.

In the meantime, I bought a 2014 rMBP with 1TB SSD. And dumped the TB RAID. So I am lightweightedly underway with a tiny computer that does all that what a huge PT rig does... That would have been unthinkable 6 years ago.

100 years from now, I seriously doubt that we'll even need a display to work with.... Let alone a hardware to enclose a CPU. I also doubt that at that time, Wikipedia will even have an article about a Lap top or a hard drive. Perhaps in the WikiVeterans section. Who knows...

Things are changing drastically, for good or bad, whether we like it or not... But they ARE changing...

I work from home, office and Studio. AT home I work in all rooms, from kitchen to sleeping room. Whereever I feel like. WHY should I chain myself to ONE seat in one room if I can use 20 seats or couches in 20 rooms...

The idea of a desktop computer sitting and confining the operator to a static DESK is OLD, VOID and extremely LIMITING ! And if one goes a bit deeper, the INVERSE of the term FREEDOM !

[rockridge]

100 years from now, I seriously doubt that we'll even need a display to work with....

We'll just "see" the screen in our minds and get support telepathically.
When the system goes down, we go to the hospital!

[25ghosts]

We'll just "see" the screen in our minds and get support telepathically.
When the system goes down, we go to the hospital!

No - we'll get the signal projected to our pupil via bundled light. Or wear a contact-like lens. The reason we need big screens today is so that we can see more... A 3inch screen is as big as a 30inch screen if you move it close enough to the eye or use oculars to enlarge it.

In case of bundled light, motion trackers will track and anticipate eye-movement and thus always project the light (Computer output) where we want/need it...

Who knows.. Perhaps in 100 years from now we have cameras installed underneath the skin which connect directly to the optical neve.... Cameras aren't subject to fatigue. Eyes are. Why use the eyes to see if we can hijack the optical nerve and feed it with impulses from a lens....

Wearables aren't something Apple invented with the Apple Watch. Vietnam Soldiers wore chips in their shoulders going to war in the 60'ies... Some knowingly some NOT !
Dogs have chip-implants injected within the first 8 weeks of birth.. Who knows what we humans ALREADY carry within us.... Without even knowing about it ;-)
My Bernese Mountain Dog has a chip in his shoulder (LAW in Germany) --- He gets scanned when he goes to the vet. He is happy, alive and in great health !

[Southsidemusic]

LOL ---||---

Can't wait for my new Apple iEye :p

[Bob Olhsson]

Within a very short time a DAW will probably look like a control surface. The point of a console from its very beginning in sound systems during the first decade of the 20th century has always been not needing to look at the controls. That ergonomic requirement hasn't changed. It's like Skype running on a desktop vs. an iPhone. I don't think it's any accident that Yamaha bought Steinberg or Avid bought Euphonix.

Meanwhile Apple and mickey$oft are both hell bent in the direction of battery-powered web browsers. I don't think scientific workstations are going anywhere but mass-produced high-powered desktops and parts will be history just as soon as the first stand-alone game machine actually outperforms everything else.

[guitardom]

Within a very short time a DAW will probably look like a control surface. The point of a console from its very beginning in sound systems during the first decade of the 20th century has always been not needing to look at the controls. That ergonomic requirement hasn't changed. It's like Skype running on a desktop vs. an iPhone. I don't think it's any accident that Yamaha bought Steinberg or Avid bought Euphonix.

Meanwhile Apple and mickey$oft are both hell bent in the direction of battery-powered web browsers. I don't think scientific workstations are going anywhere but mass-produced high-powered desktops and parts will be history just as soon as the first stand-alone game machine actually outperforms everything else.

That does still leave interesting problem solving though as many people run more than one daw, run "non daw" audio software, still need browser/Internet capability, still need some sort of hard drive as our Internet infrastructure (U.S.) could in no way universally support full online up and download speeds not including outages or considering samples-loops. Our internet infrastructure will be our bottle neck and biggest sort of holdback for generations to come. There is a lot of interesting needs to fill to move away from what we refer to as a modern desktop. I also think that at any time Microsoft wanted they could make the Xbox a more powerful gaming machine than any computer on the market, it's just cost prohibitive for the mass market and no real need.

[Bob Olhsson]

I think it will all be connected by high speed Ethernet both local and remote. The next revolution on the horizon is storage that's fast enough to replace the need for ram buffers. That's probably a lot of why the push to make everything 64 bit.

[25ghosts]

LOL ---||---

Can't wait for my new Apple iEye :p

iEye --- LOL.... LOVE IT...

You should patent that one, my friend... iEye ;-)))))

[JFreak]

Ay !!!

[Southsidemusic]

iEye --- LOL.... LOVE IT...

You should patent that one, my friend... iEye ;-)))))

LOL :p

Nice to see you again, it's been quite a while since last time!

[guitardom]

I think it will all be connected by high speed Ethernet both local and remote. The next revolution on the horizon is storage that's fast enough to replace the need for ram buffers. That's probably a lot of why the push to make everything 64 bit.

We still have the distance limitations (1000') of Ethernet which could be resolved via fiber or copper trunk lines though this is all only "in plant" situations and media converters and fiber installs get expensive! But also not really an issue for us in smaller places.

Drive wise we definitely have that already in things like M.2/Pcie drives. The cost effectiveness of it what we are waiting for!!! I am sure the next 3-4 years they will become more affordable. I now just visualize tiny M.2 enclosures dangling off Macs :rolleyes:

[moonmusic]

iEye --- LOL.... LOVE IT...

You should patent that one, my friend... iEye ;-)))))

It will be released on September 19th = Talk like a Pirate Day....(Yes, it's an actual day, look it up ; )....BTW, I found your switch from MP/HD3 to MBP enlightening....moon

[ArKay99]

I'm waiting for the iTooth...coupled with Google Glasses, it would almost be like Iron Man.