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friendlybunny
12-15-2014, 07:14 AM
Hey there experts... I need some advice.

I will be recording a very long continuous session (2 hours). Is there a way I can punch out of record and have it automatically continue recording seamlessly? I would like to save often, and then just consolidate all the regions on export.

I am afraid that my session could crash in the middle of recording and I would lose everything. I want to be able to punch out but automatically keep recording without stopping transport.

Anybody know a way to do this?

albee1952
12-15-2014, 09:34 AM
I don't have an answer, but really a question. Are you needing to have players HEAR the actual recording as it goes down(IOW, are they monitoring from the session)? If not, I would simply set your buffer to the highest number and let it roll. Any decently tweaked PT rig SHOULD run for the entire show without stopping. And, you should be able to toggle the N key and make PT stop(when you have a moment to stop and hit save) and then start from that same point(sorry I can't remember the actual technical setting term). I would create a new session(even just with a single audio track), put it in record for 10 seconds, hit STOP, and then go back into record. Toggling the N key should give you what I describe(as opposed to the cursor going back to zero). A little testing beforehand will save lots of aggravation during the show:D

As for "seamlessly", that's not going to happen if you stop>save>start:o

mesaone
12-15-2014, 09:49 AM
And, you should be able to toggle the N key and make PT stop(when you have a moment to stop and hit save) and then start from that same point(sorry I can't remember the actual technical setting term).

Insertion Follows Playback.

friendlybunny
12-15-2014, 10:28 AM
Yeah... I know about those short cuts.

I will have the highest buffer size. Since I have upgraded to HDX/ pt11HD, recording has been very unreliable. I sometimes get odd sample rate digital artifacts, like it loses sync with internal clock. With 11.2.2 it would often crash during recording. I am back on 11.2.1, but I still get unpredictable results.

I have been an owner of pro tools systems since 95, and it has been a very reliable product until now. I just need to make sure I can record continuously without breaking the session and also not losing anything.

I know about insertion follow playback, I just can't interrupt the talent for that.

Quickdraw
12-15-2014, 11:42 AM
What kind of computer system are you running? (if you have it posted somewhere I apologize, I'm new here) I would try to figure out why it crashes. as for saving in the middle while continuing to record I don't see how that would be possible. the only thing I can think of is if you can record clips to separate drives (I'm not sure if you can) so you could hand it off from one track to another. If it crashed you would still have the audio anyway. Sorry if that's no help

Barlow
12-15-2014, 12:47 PM
If it is critical recording have you considered using another program? Boom Recorder or maybe Metacorder. Not sure they would see your interfaces though.

Then import then into Protools after the show is complete.

Just a thought.

Peter Baird
12-15-2014, 01:36 PM
I often record and mix simultaneously in HDX PT11 for hours at a time. Don't know what version Joel (http://www.musicmixmobile.com) is running, but I know he does the same thing. 11.2.1 didn't feel robust to me, 11.2.2 does. (That would be an opinion not based on any single fact or set of same.)

When I can, I try to run some kind of backup record. I have a MADI card and DVS in the truck utility machine running Nuendo.

I sometimes get odd sample rate digital artifacts, like it loses sync with internal clock. With 11.2.2 it would often crash during recording.

Sorry, haven't seen either of those. Other than some meter strangeness on the ICON 11.2.2 has been solid.

How many tracks are you doing and what sample rate?

Peter

Bill Denton
12-15-2014, 01:50 PM
A subject I have ranted about many times...

It is bad practice to save while the transport is running...if you would like an explanation for the inadvisability of this practice, do a search for my name, "transport", and "in the last six months".

I am well aware that some people have been able to get away with it so far.

I am also aware that some people have won the lottery.

Peter Baird
12-15-2014, 02:12 PM
Bill, because of you I never hit Save while the transport is running. See? Some of us do listen. But it takes a lot of self-control.:D

Peter

friendlybunny
12-15-2014, 02:15 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I am on osx 10.8.5 and downgraded to 11.2.1 with hdx on a Mac pro. Only 4 tracks at 48k, 24 bit. I have maintained and used pro tools systems for 20 years. I mostly edit and mix feature films, so I do re-record long mega sessions.

This will just be 3 mics mixed with video soundtrack for a DVD commentary. It is a very basic session, but recording is unreliable. This morning I was recording 1 mono track and kept getting the distortion issue.

Other people seem to have this problem too. It sounds like 2 bit distorted audio.

Barlow
12-15-2014, 02:32 PM
Go rent a sound devices 744 or a 788 and you will not have a problem. Run them along side your Protools session as a back-up. This would be a simple solution and give you worry free inviroment . If you mix feature films them im sure you know the sound devices. If not then maybe the Zaxcom line of recorders. Either of these recorders would work and give you a level of reliability that the Protools will not.

I run both a Zaxcom Deva 5.8 and a Sound Devices 788T on my sound cart. Just purchased a Protools 11 with MacBook Pro with Motu828x for my playback system back in September. But I mainly do production sound mixing here in Los Angeles. If your recording only 3 tracks plus maybe a mix i would consider the above recorders to give you a fail safe.

Just a thought.

DC-Choppah
12-15-2014, 04:33 PM
You can just open an OS window and go in and copy the region (clip) files to a backup folder or USB stick drive or something while PT is recording.

I just tried this in PT11 on a big session and it worked fine. You can just go and grab the clip files while PT is recording and copy them to a backup drive. Then bring them back in later if needed.

Since it's just an OS thing, you can run a macro recorder and make a hot key for it.

Bill Denton
12-15-2014, 05:16 PM
Bill, because of you I never hit Save while the transport is running. See? Some of us do listen. But it takes a lot of self-control.:D

Peter

But it takes a lot of self-control.

Tell me about it! My day-job is programming, and it is just second nature to me...write a line of code, hit [Enter], hit [Ctrl]+[S]...lather, rinse, repeat.

Sometimes, even when I'm doing a forum post like this one, I still hit [Ctrl]+[S] without even thinking about it!

I'll be back in a sec...I keep a chart on my refrigerator and I'll go put a gold star next to your name...

Bill Denton
12-15-2014, 05:48 PM
You can just open an OS window and go in and copy the region (clip) files to a backup folder or USB stick drive or something while PT is recording.

I just tried this in PT11 on a big session and it worked fine. You can just go and grab the clip files while PT is recording and copy them to a backup drive. Then bring them back in later if needed.

Since it's just an OS thing, you can run a macro recorder and make a hot key for it.

You know...this is the fourth time I've opened a "reply" window, and I'm still just sitting here shaking my head...

I don't think I have ever before seen so many ways to guarantee a problem in my life.

But hey, it's your life and your career...

DC-Choppah
12-15-2014, 07:02 PM
I just want to point out that hitting ctrl-S in PT only saves changes made to the Session file. It does not save any audio in the clip files.

Andrew. D
12-15-2014, 07:40 PM
You could try destructive record.
Just create some 2 hour empty files and record into them using the destructive record setting so if your session or computer crashes, it will all be there when you re-start.
Also, I'm fairly sure that even if you do have a computer crash, the only thing you lose is the session file after the point it was last saved, all the the audio up to the point of crash will be in the audio files folder.
Hope this helps and I apologise if I'm teaching you to suck eggs!!

friendlybunny
12-16-2014, 08:26 AM
Thanks for all of the advice. Yes, I have been using protools long enough to know that I might have to just deal with a crash during the session.

I was hoping there was some key command.

The technical issues are another problem for another thread.

I think my solution will be to let the client know that I will occasionally be pausing for a split second during a natural break, and then continuing on so I can save as we go.

I have done several of these sessions in the past and have never had such worry about the recording function of PT.

I really hope they take a break from adding new functions and just concentrate on reliability and compatibility. I'm still afraid to upgrade to osx 10.9

Bill Denton
12-16-2014, 04:50 PM
I just want to point out that hitting ctrl-S in PT only saves changes made to the Session file. It does not save any audio in the clip files.

Then how does it get saved, magic?

A save is a save...

JFreak
12-16-2014, 11:26 PM
A save is a save...

...and automatic session file backup is also a save :)

JFreak
12-16-2014, 11:37 PM
I will be recording a very long continuous session (2 hours). Is there a way I can punch out of record and have it automatically continue recording seamlessly? I would like to save often, and then just consolidate all the regions on export.

I've done over a hundred such gigs and here's what I suggest:

BUY ENOUGH FAST HARD DRIVES, use round-robin allocation and stop worrying about it. Always record to empty hard drives when you only have one chance to get it done.

And in case of PT11 you have the Disc Cache feature (you have HDX so you have HD features) that makes it possible to record to even a lowly USB memory stick without hiccups.

In case your system does not feel stable, then fix it before the gig. There's obviously something wrong if it can't do a dummy recording of 2 hours with ChannelStrip on each track and -say- 10 more reverbs than you need. Test it. If you can do it at studio, you can do it on the road.

That said;

If you really want to stop/restart playback, you will have to test that too. PT finalizes the audio file headers after you stop recording, so you can't just have a "split second" pause if you want to make sure things are properly done before you start recording again. Have an Activity Monitor open (Disk page) and set update frequency to "very often" which means 1sec interval. You'll see how long it takes to cool off.

Which brings me back to my original recommendation. Just fix your system and record a 2-hour session to continuous files. I've done this with every PT version since PT 7.2 HD and never I have had a single problem with it. Because I have had fast enough hard drive (10krpm) and I have tested the system before the show. Confidence comes from repeated testing and repeated success.

bcwiz
12-17-2014, 01:14 AM
Hey there experts... I need some advice.

I will be recording a very long continuous session (2 hours). Is there a way I can punch out of record and have it automatically continue recording seamlessly? I would like to save often, and then just consolidate all the regions on export.

I am afraid that my session could crash in the middle of recording and I would lose everything. I want to be able to punch out but automatically keep recording without stopping transport.

Anybody know a way to do this?
You could use Track Punch with duplicate tracks and drop in and out of record, that way there would always be one of the track groups in record.
Seems like a lot of bother though.
If you need redundancy have another recorder running.
For concert recording I use an RME UFX which will record onto a separate hard drive independent of PT or the computer. Never had to rely on it yet but it's nice to know it's there if PT crashed.
I also found PT11 unreliable for tracking (recording dropouts!) so I stay with PT10, it's solid and will record for hours no problem.
Also contrary to what some say, it's ok to save while the transport is rolling, hasn't been a problem since PT5 or something. If it was, Autosave would be disabled every time you press play. just sayin'

Bill Denton
12-17-2014, 03:32 AM
I've done over a hundred such gigs and here's what I suggest:

BUY ENOUGH FAST HARD DRIVES, use round-robin allocation and stop worrying about it. Always record to empty hard drives when you only have one chance to get it done.

And in case of PT11 you have the Disc Cache feature (you have HDX so you have HD features) that makes it possible to record to even a lowly USB memory stick without hiccups.

In case your system does not feel stable, then fix it before the gig. There's obviously something wrong if it can't do a dummy recording of 2 hours with ChannelStrip on each track and -say- 10 more reverbs than you need. Test it. If you can do it at studio, you can do it on the road.

That said;

If you really want to stop/restart playback, you will have to test that too. PT finalizes the audio file headers after you stop recording, so you can't just have a "split second" pause if you want to make sure things are properly done before you start recording again. Have an Activity Monitor open (Disk page) and set update frequency to "very often" which means 1sec interval. You'll see how long it takes to cool off.

Which brings me back to my original recommendation. Just fix your system and record a 2-hour session to continuous files. I've done this with every PT version since PT 7.2 HD and never I have had a single problem with it. Because I have had fast enough hard drive (10krpm) and I have tested the system before the show. Confidence comes from repeated testing and repeated success.

+1 on what he said...