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capt kirk
05-30-2014, 08:00 PM
any of you pro mixers have strong opinions about these? vs the ssl ones...i need ssl tone without the desk, haha, if its possible or is it total baloney to sell junk......:confused:

YYR123
05-30-2014, 10:25 PM
I'm not a pro but I never liked the waves SSL eq. Maybe personal idk but I would wait for UA to make one and then maybe I would try it....

My $0.02

Glenjb
05-30-2014, 11:20 PM
any of you pro mixers have strong opinions about these? vs the ssl ones...i need ssl tone without the desk, haha, if its possible or is it total baloney to sell junk......:confused:

Demo waves NLS on spike mode, not an eq but it's got a cool sound I like it.

musicman691
05-31-2014, 04:19 AM
I'm not a pro but I never liked the waves SSL eq. Maybe personal idk but I would wait for UA to make one and then maybe I would try it....

My $0.02
UAD does have the SSL E series channel strip plugin.

And IK Multimedia has 2 different SSL channel strips; one they call the British Channel (dark panel) and a second one the call the White Channel (white panel).

justus1900
05-31-2014, 05:20 AM
I use McDSP Channel G for my SSL E/G channel strip and I love it.

YYR123
05-31-2014, 07:47 AM
UAD does have the SSL E series channel strip plugin.

And IK Multimedia has 2 different SSL channel strips; one they call the British Channel (dark panel) and a second one the call the White Channel (white panel).


Well I did not know that.

I will have to demo it......after I finish moving

nst7
05-31-2014, 08:22 AM
All good options, but you should also demo the Waves ones. Many people feel that they are the closest to the real SSL sound, and they have a "punchiness" that none of the others seem to have.

Keep in mind that if you like it, you should just grab the Waves Studio Classics collection, which is on sale, and today is the last day it's on sale. This gives you the SSL, API collection, and V-Series (their original model of Neve).

With the sale, it's actually cheaper to get the Studio Classics than to get SSL by itself. Get it even cheaper at audiodeluxe.com ($449 when you add to cart).

capt kirk
05-31-2014, 08:47 AM
well thats certainly what i'm looking for, is the punchiness, and hopefully the buss compressor does what its supposed to . :-)

demodigi
05-31-2014, 09:27 AM
You may add Native instruments (made by Softube) option to the dance : Solid mix series (http://www.native-instruments.com/fr/products/komplete/effects/solid-mix-series/)

I tried Waves (years ago) and IK White and British channels, McDSP channel G and NI recently. I never tried UAD nor SSL versions though.

Waves (SSL4000) is really great and have 2 modes (Analog and digital). I really liked the analog mode because, if you put too much gain in a EQ-band, you can quickly hear it adds too much distorsion to the sound and revert back to a wiser gain. And yes, it is punchy. It's very easy to get a good result with the EQs.

Apart from Waves, I prefered IK's channelstrip because I found them really efficient (but maybe more "cliché")and have 2 curve options (B curve) and 2 really distinctive "colours" :
- I am not 100% sure but the Black channel is an emulation of SSL4k channelstrip (more vintage tone)
- while White channel has a more modern/silky tone (SSL9k ?).
- also the Bus compression is a good one too (with MS option) and Neve emulations are also great (both comp and EQs).

NI has a different colour (more silky). Not really convinced by the EQ (as an emulation), but it does the job (more common/precise EQ to my opinion). It also has E and G curve modes. Though, the bus comp is my favorite one (especially with the option to mix the dry & comped signals)

McDSP Channel G is really cool if you want a good channelstrip and different colors (SSL E, Neve, API, etc) for comp & EQs. Very versatile tool but not pretend to be a close emulation.

capt kirk
05-31-2014, 12:18 PM
thanks for that....i appreciate it, from an actual user...

musicman691
05-31-2014, 12:32 PM
You may add Native instruments (made by Softube) option to the dance : Solid mix series (http://www.native-instruments.com/fr/products/komplete/effects/solid-mix-series/)

I tried Waves (years ago) and IK White and British channels, McDSP channel G and NI recently. I never tried UAD nor SSL versions though.

Waves (SSL4000) is really great and have 2 modes (Analog and digital). I really liked the analog mode because, if you put too much gain in a EQ-band, you can quickly hear it adds too much distorsion to the sound and revert back to a wiser gain. And yes, it is punchy. It's very easy to get a good result with the EQs.

Apart from Waves, I prefered IK's channelstrip because I found them really efficient (but maybe more "cliché")and have 2 curve options (B curve) and 2 really distinctive "colours" :
- I am not 100% sure but the Black channel is an emulation of SSL4k channelstrip (more vintage tone)
- while White channel has a more modern/silky tone (SSL9k ?).
- also the Bus compression is a good one too (with MS option) and Neve emulations are also great (both comp and EQs).

NI has a different colour (more silky). Not really convinced by the EQ (as an emulation), but it does the job (more common/precise EQ to my opinion). It also has E and G curve modes. Though, the bus comp is my favorite one (especially with the option to mix the dry & comped signals)

McDSP Channel G is really cool if you want a good channelstrip and different colors (SSL E, Neve, API, etc) for comp & EQs. Very versatile tool but not pretend to be a close emulation.
I have the NI SSL solid series bundle and thought it was okay until I got the IK Multimedia stuff. The NI SSL bus comp sucks the life out of my mixes (Softube messed up with this big time - that's who does NI's plugins for the most part) . Not so with anything from IK.

Glenjb
05-31-2014, 05:31 PM
I have the NI SSL solid series bundle and thought it was okay until I got the IK Multimedia stuff. The NI SSL bus comp sucks the life out of my mixes (Softube messed up with this big time - that's who does NI's plugins for the most part) . Not so with anything from IK.

I don't think softube did the NI ssl stuff and the ones they did do (la2a, 1176, dbx160, vari mu, massive passive, the other eq there and the lex reverb emu's) are all great. Even still, I like the solid bus comp on a drum bus and use it often. That vari mu is also great if you need to push drums back in a mix and also on guitars.

musicman691
06-01-2014, 03:09 AM
I don't think softube did the NI ssl stuff and the ones they did do (la2a, 1176, dbx160, vari mu, massive passive, the other eq there and the lex reverb emu's) are all great. Even still, I like the solid bus comp on a drum bus and use it often. That vari mu is also great if you need to push drums back in a mix and also on guitars.
NI doesn't do their own fx plugin development for these biggies - the Solid Series WAS done by Softube when the 3 fx were removed from Guitar Rig and are now running as standalone outside GR5.

Glenjb
06-01-2014, 11:13 AM
NI doesn't do their own fx plugin development for these biggies - the Solid Series WAS done by Softube when the 3 fx were removed from Guitar Rig and are now running as standalone outside GR5.

Do you have a source? Because I did a search to find out if softube did the solid mix series and everything I could find says no.

zion
06-01-2014, 01:49 PM
Don't forget about Solid State Logic own plugins. The best in my opinion.

http://store.solidstatelogic.com/catalog/duende-native-plug-ins

zion
06-01-2014, 01:54 PM
I'm not a pro but I never liked the waves SSL eq.

+1 I agree!

musicman691
06-01-2014, 01:57 PM
Do you have a source? Because I did a search to find out if softube did the solid mix series and everything I could find says no.
And your source is?

Glenjb
06-01-2014, 02:29 PM
And your source is?

I'm not 100% sure about this and I can admit that. You seem adamant so I assumed you knew for sure. All I can see is that the NI plugins done by softube have the softube logo. Most likely a win win for both companies. I know softube develops for different vendors like the abbey road etc. I also understand NI uses outside developers but there is no evidence I can find that softube did the solid mix series and also the transient master, driver, supercharger.

YYR123
06-01-2014, 03:23 PM
All I can see is that the NI plugins done by softube have the softube logo.


Seems like they would legally have to have that

Peter Baird
06-02-2014, 12:15 AM
I love 'em. Used the G channel all over the place on Arsenio. Just wish there was a graphic representation of the EQ--I've gotten kind of lazy about that.

groundcontrol
06-02-2014, 12:32 AM
SSL own Duende Native sound slightly more open/transparent and less grainy than Waves version.
(Turning off the analog option on Waves can help.)

Firechild
06-02-2014, 12:56 PM
Yes, a huge difference. SSL Duende is pure and clean audio quality.
Waves version is more rough.
However I think the Waves Bus Compressor has more punch though.

Barry Johns
06-02-2014, 02:43 PM
I own and use the Studio Classics bundle that has the SSL Plugins. I love the SSL plugins, I use them on every mix. I also think the V's Plugins are the most underrated plugins that waves makes. I love them, very warm and silky to my ears.

capt kirk
06-02-2014, 05:09 PM
wow, thanks so much for all the input. its very helpful. good or bad

feliponk
06-03-2014, 08:52 AM
I have tried the Waves, the UAD and the SSL.

SSL is first for me, punchy and aggressive, second UAD (both the G and E), third Waves.

I never tried the G Channel or the IK.

Firechild
06-04-2014, 11:22 AM
Yes agree.
1 SSL duende
2. SSL UAD ( which actually is "Officially licensed and fully authenticated by Solid State Logic" )
3. Waves SSL

jryser
06-04-2014, 11:36 AM
Agree with Barry on the V plugs.

TC_TC_TC
10-17-2014, 10:13 PM
I'm glad to hear all of your comments. I have had the Waves SSL for years - never liked it much & never use it much. I thought it was just me. I have used the pre sets occasionally & if I remember correctly the CLA pre sets I really like.

Matt Hepworth
12-14-2014, 10:12 AM
I think the SSL Duende are the cleanest of the lot. They're ported from the DIGITAL SSL console.

The Waves is the one I use (TDM), while I do have a slight pref for UAD in brown mode.

musicman691
12-14-2014, 02:38 PM
I think the SSL Duende are the cleanest of the lot. They're ported from the DIGITAL SSL console.

The Waves is the one I use (TDM), while I do have a slight pref for UAD in brown mode.
The Duende is from the C series consoles?

YYR123
12-14-2014, 03:15 PM
I kick myself for not buying them while they were on special. Just the strip, b/c to me the buss comp didn't amaze

simon.a.billington
12-14-2014, 10:13 PM
I find the Waves SSL has a great tone, reminiscent of my days on a real SSL.

Although, I often mix it up with NLS. The great advantage of that is there are 32 models of different SSL channels from the one desk.

Because they are different, it means all the harmonics aren't building up in exactly the same place, potentially leading to a more muddy mix. That can be eq'ed out, it only makes your job harder.

feliponk
12-15-2014, 07:13 AM
The Duende is from the C series consoles?

Yes, at least that's what they say

nst7
12-15-2014, 07:40 AM
I kick myself for not buying them while they were on special. Just the strip, b/c to me the buss comp didn't amaze

You can get Studio Classics on sale for $446 at Audiodeluxe. That includes SSL, API, and V-Series.

Eric Lambert
12-15-2014, 08:59 AM
Yes, at least that's what they say

Not only is it what they say, it's what it is.

Eric Lambert
12-15-2014, 08:59 AM
I passed on Waves. I've always strongly preferred the SSL versions.

feliponk
12-15-2014, 01:04 PM
Not only is it what they say, it's what it is.

Even better then :cool:

simon.a.billington
12-16-2014, 02:37 AM
Well... if it's made by SSL... ;)

Still, some use SSL plugins from a few different manufacturers in the one session and exploit the strengths of each.

musicman691
12-16-2014, 05:11 AM
Let me get this straight:
Duende is an emulation of the C series hardware
Everyone else's emulations are from the 4000 series consoles right?

Then:
Is there any real substantive difference between the two emulation sets other than sound?

DontLetMeDrown
12-16-2014, 05:35 AM
I was on the fence for a while deciding if I should buy Waves SSL. It finally went on sale for $399 and I was close to pulling the trigger, but ended up getting Slate VCC for $99, Slate VBC for $99, and Slate VMR $149 which ended up being $50 less than the Waves bundle on sale (this was before black friday).

I've only done maybe 10 mixes so far, but very happy with the sounds I'm getting using these plugins. Being a gearslut, of course I still have the Waves SSL on my mind :-) , but I have to remind myself that I don't really need them anymore. I seem to have this never-ending desire to buy every plugin in existence.

feliponk
12-16-2014, 06:48 AM
Let me get this straight:
Duende is an emulation of the C series hardware
Everyone else's emulations are from the 4000 series consoles right?

Then:
Is there any real substantive difference between the two emulation sets other than sound?


The C series is a digital console with a DSP that emulates the SSL E and G channel strip sound and behavior, hence it's an emulation from them of their 4000 series, see attached :cool:

Eric Lambert
12-16-2014, 07:26 AM
The C series is a digital console with a DSP that emulates the SSL E and G channel strip sound and behavior, hence it's an emulation from them of their 4000 series, see attached :cool:

This always gets confusing. Though a particular feature (not the entire channel, just an optional feature) models the curves of the 4000 I don't think you could say that the C generally 'emulates' the 4000, and as Duende is pulled from the C it's no more a 4000 than is the C. They will be reminiscent of each other (as putting them to use will reveal) but they will not sound the same. In fact, it's the 9000 which is more akin to Duende.

I don't know if it's because Duende comes from the C and Waves goes after the 4000, or if SSL is simply better at the SSL sound (makes sense), but Duende "sounds" better imo. I'm not sure what there is beyond that, unless we collect plugins just to twist knobs and futz with sliders. It's all about the sound.

feliponk
12-16-2014, 07:41 AM
I don't know if it's because Duende comes from the C and Waves goes after the 4000, or if SSL is simply better at the SSL sound (makes sense), but Duende "sounds" better imo. I'm not sure what there is beyond that, unless we collect plugins just to twist knobs and futz with sliders. It's all about the sound.

I agree, it's all about the sound, and not the marketing :cool:

musicman691
12-16-2014, 07:51 AM
The C series is a digital console with a DSP that emulates the SSL E and G channel strip sound and behavior, hence it's an emulation from them of their 4000 series, see attached :cool:
So the Duende is an emulation of an emulation then?:eek::confused:

nst7
12-16-2014, 08:22 AM
So the Duende is an emulation of an emulation then?:eek::confused:

Yes, kind of like Inception.

groundcontrol
12-16-2014, 09:33 AM
It 's not an emulation, it 's a port.

nst7
12-16-2014, 10:58 AM
Well, technically it's a port of an emulation.

feliponk
12-16-2014, 01:29 PM
or emulated port?

musicman691
12-16-2014, 02:09 PM
or emulated port?
I'd rather drink some port (or a nice chianti with fava beans);)

simon.a.billington
12-17-2014, 09:50 PM
LOL... You guys are funny :D

I have the Waves, but I should check out the Slate, and Duende, just to see what people are talking about.

I'm just conscientious that some of these emulations are reproducing the prepaid, that's fine, but it's exactly the same pregain on every instance which would lead to harmonic build up in exactly the same space, and that leads to muddy mixes.

Which is why I favoured the approach or the NLS because there are 32 channels of subtle variations there with their own harmonic characteristic, so they are less likely to build up. But as you would anticipate, if I'm using the NLS pregain it becomes a less favourable idea to use them in conjunction with other pregains.

YYR123
12-17-2014, 09:57 PM
but it's exactly the same pregain on every instance which would lead to harmonic build up in exactly the same space, and that leads to muddy mixes.

Which is why I favoured the approach or the NLS because there are 32 channels of subtle variations there with their own harmonic characteristic, so they are less likely to build up. But as you would anticipate, if I'm using the NLS pregain it becomes a less favourable idea to use them in conjunction with other pregains.


Interesting POV

WernerF
12-17-2014, 10:35 PM
The only thing that the Analog Button does on the Waves SSL plugin is add a 60 cycle hum. This info is straight from a Waves tech support guys mouth. It's interesting to note how some hear more distortion as a result of engaging it. Once again, no offense intended, the power of expectation bias is quite profound. I would demo each one of these plugins first and then take other user's personal opinion's as extra info into account.

YYR123
12-17-2014, 11:11 PM
Which is why I favoured the approach or the NLS because there are 32 channels of subtle variations there with their own harmonic characteristic


He wasn't talking bout the analog button, but yeah I think most people know that the analog button just introduces 50/60 cycle hum

simon.a.billington
12-18-2014, 02:06 AM
He wasn't talking bout the analog button, but yeah I think most people know that the analog button just introduces 50/60 cycle hum
That's right I was talking about the NLS, and in particular I would recommend using it conjunction with the SSL EQ. Pity the NLS a doesn't have an API flavour.

Yeah interesting about that distortion note, could it perhaps be caused by the 60Hz tone causing harmonic modulation with the other frequencies??

WernerF
12-18-2014, 07:22 AM
I was referring to references to the Analog button introducing distortion that were sated earlier in this thread.

As for the interaction I suppose that anything is possible but the 60 cycle hum is pretty far down in the noise floor compared to whatever source is being EQ'd, hence the EQ frequencies are going to be way up there in comparison as well.

simon.a.billington
12-22-2014, 12:00 AM
Is the Hum pre or post eq??

The reason why I ask is if its post, much of it would be lost when a HPF filter is applied

Andy Gone
12-23-2014, 04:53 AM
Actually hum will be lost if hum is pre EQ (or EQ is post hum) :D Gonna try to tweak EQ and see if the hum changes :)

simon.a.billington
12-23-2014, 05:18 PM
Actually hum will be lost if hum is pre EQ (or EQ is post hum) :D Gonna try to tweak EQ and see if the hum changes :)
Yep, that's what I'm saying. Let us know the verdict