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chalz2502
09-25-2013, 08:27 AM
im not new to protools but i need help understanding something regarding to mixing vocals that are not recorded in a vocal booth. i my self have a vocal booth but i engineer other artist session from time to time that cant afford a vocal booth or a high budget like my self. this is basically like a job and i have clients that send me sessions all the time. this one client sends me sessions but the problem is he dont record in a vocal booth, he records in a open area in his room. the sound is clean, no if, ands, or buts. the only problem is his vocals have allota access reverb and delay in it while dry. im guessing its because he dont have a booth or no kind of acoustics to keep his vocals from bouncing on the walls and all over the place. its getting to the point where its beginning to be a challenge and could possibly mess my reputation up as a engineer because i never had to deal with that before because im use to artist recording in a advanced studio with a vocal booth and then sending me the sessions, or recording in my studio and im making sure it comes out correct. what i need to know is how can i dial out that access reverb and delay noise in the vocals. make it sound more dry and raw instead of trying to add reverb on top of reverb. it doesnt sound right to me at all. it makes your vocals sound real light as well. and i know its a way to do it because i watched many industry artist on youtube record with just a cheap mbox and no vocal booth. i actually listened to some of the songs after being mixed and you cant tell one bit that it was recorded the way it was. i know its some kind of plugin u can use, or some kind of way u can dial it out using a EQ. please help me, i am desperately in need of it

melloj
09-25-2013, 09:00 AM
I don't want to be the voice of doom but if EQ doesn't work your screwed. I don't have a vocal booth, but I take the necessary acoustic precautions and always record perfectly good dry vocals. It sounds like your client has recorded all sundry of comb filtering and modes the room has introduced. I had a similar issue with a client where he had recorded all the dialogue for a film poorly. He took my advice and has accepted he has to lip sync the whole film to save it.

This is a case whereas engineers we have to play a defensive game. If your artist has not recorded the vocals properly because they don't understand how to do it properly, you cannot take the fall for it.

Tell your client if it's possible to re-record the vocals and use a duvet behind the vocalist and foam sheets in front of the mic.


good luck.

chalz2502
09-25-2013, 09:39 AM
thanks for the advice, u are right in some cases which i believe in but i figured its possible that its a certain method i could use to manipulate the eq like which frequency could i dial out and how much do i dial out. that was mainly the question, im not really taking the fall for it but if i presented his track to another potential client or maybe someone that knows hear it i wouldnt be judged for his own recording technique. but the least im worried about, i just wanna know how can i manipulate his vocals just in case i ever run up on another problem such as this one. these things are good to know as a engineer for future experiences.

melloj
09-25-2013, 01:17 PM
By all means try. But in my experience from what you have described it is all but impossible to try and and remove natural reverb and room coloration from a recording using simple EQ curves.

No one can tell you which frequencies you need to target without hearing it, but it more than likely crosses many frequencies. In such circumstances once you find one frequency another offending frequency rears it's head. This is how you go round in circles and you end up with a recording that's had the life choked out of it and in the end the artifacts your trying to remove are still there.

chalz2502
09-25-2013, 06:18 PM
u may be right and i appreciate the advice because i was thinking the same exact thing, i just needed to hear it from someone else before i try and manipulate things on my own. i just talked to a engineer name dr ford, he did some protools training videos on groove3.com, he did a video on there called From Drop to Top - Producing Hip Hop. i think he's a award winning engineer. he's recorded allota industry artist. but he put me on some plugins that talk that reverb noise out. 1 called spl deverb, the others are called izotope rx3 and zynaptic unveil. really good plugins, i watched tutorials on what they can do and they do exactly what i was looking for. thats the whole reason of this forum, its always a way around something. maybe u just didnt know like me, we learn something everyday. thats what i always learned about engineering, its always a way to manipulate or do something manually. sometimes we just think we know everything when we dont.

melloj
09-26-2013, 04:28 AM
I don't believe in such plugins - never have. They almost never do what they claim to do on the box, maybe they work to a degree, but they almost NEVER do the job to a satisfactory result, at least not to my standards. Personally I will always just re-record bad audio. It's just my opinion, but I hope it works for you.

chalz2502
09-26-2013, 12:59 PM
yea i feel ya and thanks i hope it work out as well, you been very helpful and right in many area. i tried the plugins that i told u about and they suck, so i agree with u on more things then i didnt. are u a recording engineer that has ur own set up or u work in a studio. if so what kind of set up u working with and how good are u? u have some music i can listen to? or a youtube page with ur material

melloj
09-29-2013, 09:32 AM
Sorry it didn't work out. The problem with tutorial videos that show off these wonder plugins is that they will demonstrate audio that isn't that bad to begin with making their software look like they have something. But they can't fix awful examples. In reality they're just a posh EQ, like so called 'restoration' plugs by Waves.

I have about ten years experience and 4 years formal training, but I went in my first studio 20 years ago as an artist so had a good idea how it worked before I started. I used to have a commercial studio but now work from home. I recently completed my Masters degree in audio post production as I'm trying to break into the film industry, the only music I produce anymore is that of my own band.

My latest work can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1B1dwL_hmQ

I recorded and mixed it and it was mastered by Earle Holder of HDQTRZ studios. To be honest though from an engineering perspective youtube don't do it justice the wav version sounds better.

sunburst79
09-29-2013, 10:58 AM
Possibly roll the singer up in a large carpet? Should solve the reflection issues and may even keep their ego in check.

Bill Denton
09-29-2013, 11:16 AM
Possibly roll the singer up in a large carpet? Should solve the reflection issues and may even keep their ego in check.

We didn't need that, Scott...

This thread was funny as hell even without the deliberate addition of comedy...

sunburst79
09-29-2013, 11:33 AM
We didn't need that, Scott...

This thread was funny as hell even without the deliberate addition of comedy...

I apologize. That was the first thing that came to mind when the OP posted a day or two ago. I simply had to set the idea free as I could no longer keep it to myself.

While you can only do so much with flawed material the OP might want to try the 30 day trial of Unveil by Zynaptic. The post production guys seem to be fairly pleased ith the results they are getting. That doesn't mean its going to magically improve vocals but its worth a shot.

http://www.zynaptiq.com/unveil/

Shan
09-29-2013, 12:07 PM
Possibly roll the singer up in a large carpet? Should solve the reflection issues and may even keep their ego in check.

:D :D

Shane

MaxVelazquez
10-26-2013, 07:48 AM
Golden rule...Get it right at the source.

I would have never accepted the job if the tracking was that bad.

gives
10-27-2013, 09:04 AM
I apologize. That was the first thing that came to mind when the OP posted a day or two ago. I simply had to set the idea free as I could no longer keep it to myself.

While you can only do so much with flawed material the OP might want to try the 30 day trial of Unveil by Zynaptic. The post production guys seem to be fairly pleased ith the results they are getting. That doesn't mean its going to magically improve vocals but its worth a shot.

http://www.zynaptiq.com/unveil/

Yeah, I heard good things about this also, and iZotope RX3 Advanced or possibly regular have an option similar for this now I believe.

G