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noiseboyuk
09-21-2013, 04:20 AM
What a horrendous mess - need some help here I think.

OK. I got Waves 8 (Gold, L3-16 and a couple of others). Rig is Win 7 64 bit, 2x Radeon HD5450 graphics cards driving 4 monitors, PT9 (now PT10), Cubase, Adobe Audition etc. Everything in v8 days just worked - bliss.

Then Waves 9 came out. In PT, I got blank GUIs - along with many others with multi monitors it seems. Waves 9 working fine in Cubase and Adobe Audition. At some point, it looked like a revision of Waves 9 started working ok in PT too, great - problem solved I thought.

Then last week I foolishly decided to trial a plugin (Morphoder). I downloaded the latest Waves 9 installer, and off I went. First time it worked. But now, many of the Waves plugins have gone back to a grey GUI. Some are unaffected. Turns out, most of the Waves plugins I have in PT are still V8! Some of the V9 ones open sometimes, usually they don't (or rather, they do with a grey GUI). I've looked for build numbers, but there doesn't seem any consistency beyond v8 always working and v9 being variable at best. One time it will open, then the next 10 times it'll be grey.

At this point, the whole thing seems to be in a real mess. In my Program Files (x86)/Common Files/ Digidesign/DAE/Plugins folder, there are shells for 8.0, 9.0 and 9.2. Meanwhile some of my VST programs such as Adobe Audition now have multiple plugin versions of the same thing, with no way to differentiate.

So. I'm thinking I need to blitz Waves from my computer completely, then reinstall VSTs to v9 ONLY, and RTAS to v8 ONLY. It's not a brilliant solution cos I want to go to PT11, but Waves makes that impossible for me at the moment. Anyway, what's the best way of nuking Waves completely, then going about that install? Or is there anything else I can try? My WUP is expired, and I'm not minded to shell out any more on it since the AAX forum here shows many of those with multi-monitor setups are still having the same grey GUI with Waves 9 AAX. Yuk.

As I say, what a mess. Thinking ultimately I may have to abandon Waves altogether to stay current with Pro Tools.

Bill Denton
09-21-2013, 06:08 AM
2x Radeon HD5450 graphics

There's your problem right there...Waves only supports one graphics card...

sunburst79
09-21-2013, 07:36 AM
This has been a beef on the PC side for awhile. Last I knew Waves official response was.....that there wouldn't be one.

Bob Olhsson
09-21-2013, 07:43 AM
This problem is only in Pro Tools? If so, I hope this has been reported to Avid.

noiseboyuk
09-21-2013, 09:48 AM
2x Radeon HD5450 graphics

There's your problem right there...Waves only supports one graphics card...

Time to quit Waves then.

albee1952
09-22-2013, 11:54 AM
Single graphics card here and never an issue with Waves on dual monitors:o

sunburst79
09-22-2013, 01:24 PM
Single graphics card here and never an issue with Waves on dual monitors:o

That's fine.

It when you have dual cards and more than two monitors things go south.

Bob Ohlsson had a good point. I have no idea if this effects any other DAWs. It would be good to know if that's the case.

mesaone
09-24-2013, 10:04 AM
Waves is weird about graphics cards. I don't know what's up with OpenGL, but my MSI Afterburner on-screen display shows up in the GUI for any plugin by Waves.

Not an issue, I set up a key to disable the display... It's just strange.

TOM@METRO
09-24-2013, 10:50 AM
This has been a huge flaw in the Waves GUI since the Version 9 release. It does seem to be the way Waves has chosen to work with Open GL.

It appears they cannot find a cure for this issue, so they have taken the position that they do not support multiple graphics cards.

Fortunately, no other plug-in developers are having this struggle, so finding substitutes for Waves appears to be the easy remedy for this.

mesaone
09-24-2013, 10:58 AM
It appears they cannot find a cure for this issue, so they have taken the position that they do not support multiple graphics cards.


SLI is a can of worms I don't want to open, anyway. Extra heat and fan noise, conflicts such as this, no real studio benefit over a single card.

TOM@METRO
09-24-2013, 11:48 AM
SLI is a can of worms I don't want to open, anyway. Extra heat and fan noise, conflicts such as this, no real studio benefit over a single card.

This has nothing to do with SLI. Multiple video cards are needed when more than two monitors are used. And they are fanless.

mesaone
09-24-2013, 01:58 PM
This has nothing to do with SLI. Multiple video cards are needed when more than two monitors are used. And they are fanless.

SLI (and AMD's Crossfire) link together multiple video cards... Which is what I would have to use if I wanted to access multiple cards in my own rig for rendering. So in the context of my comment, SLI is relevant.

Multiple video cards are not necessarily needed to run more than two displays, Eyefinity can feed up to six separate displays with a single card. Some NVIDIA cards support 3 (maybe more, with the new line) and while your card(s) may be fanless, the majority of discrete graphics cards are not.

Raoul23
09-24-2013, 02:09 PM
SLI (and AMD's Crossfire) link together multiple video cards... Which is what I would have to use if I wanted to access multiple cards in my own rig for rendering. So in the context of my comment, SLI is relevant.

Multiple video cards are not necessarily needed to run more than two displays, Eyefinity can feed up to six separate displays with a single card. Some NVIDIA cards support 3 (maybe more, with the new line)

Which I are they I can't use V9 either due to grey GUI as I have 2 video cards running 3 monitors :-(


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mesaone
09-24-2013, 02:14 PM
Which I are they I can't use V9 either due to grey GUI as I have 2 video cards running 3 monitors :-([/URL]

The NVIDIA cards that can do this are all pretty expensive. Here's a link to AMD cards that support Eyefinity (3+ monitors) http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=eyefinity&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Raoul23
09-24-2013, 02:18 PM
The NVIDIA cards that can do this are all pretty expensive. Here's a link to AMD cards that support Eyefinity (3+ monitors) http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=eyefinity&N=-1&isNodeId=1

So 3 monitors all running different things on each monitor??


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mesaone
09-24-2013, 02:28 PM
So 3 monitors all running different things on each monitor??

Yes. It would behave similarly to a dual-screen setup. The desktop would spread across all three, and when using Pro Tools you can arrange your mix/edit/plugin/MIDI windows however you wish. Here's a video of PT running on a 6-screen Eyefinity setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGrp8m56HtI

sw rec
09-24-2013, 03:48 PM
I'm running a Matrox 9140 QUAD monitor card. PT in the control room across three of them, and the fourth cloned to the center (edit window) monitor and placed in the booth. It works flawlessly on everything EXCEPT...tah dah...WAVES Eddie Kramer Drum Channel would lock the computer. WAVES says "disable 2 of your 3 monitors." I says "Uh, no." At least when I surrendered the license I got my money back, which I used to buy a PLUG n Mix digital reverb. Odd that even the cheap plugins (that work exceedingly well) had no issue with the multi-monitor setup, but WAVES does.

mesaone
09-24-2013, 03:53 PM
WAVES Eddie Kramer Drum Channel would lock the computer. WAVES says "disable 2 of your 3 monitors."

Lock the computer how? As in freeze it, requiring a hard boot?

Did you encounter problems (like the gray GUI) with any other Waves plugins?

sw rec
09-24-2013, 04:21 PM
Lock the computer how? As in freeze it, requiring a hard boot?

Yes. Spinning icon of death every time.
Did you encounter problems (like the gray GUI) with any other Waves plugins?
No. I don't use them. I don't like the WUP idea, and when I tried to make an exception it didn't work out. Doing fine without them, and have for years.

TOM@METRO
09-24-2013, 04:39 PM
SLI (and AMD's Crossfire) link together multiple video cards... Which is what I would have to use if I wanted to access multiple cards in my own rig for rendering. So in the context of my comment, SLI is relevant.

Multiple video cards are not necessarily needed to run more than two displays, Eyefinity can feed up to six separate displays with a single card. Some NVIDIA cards support 3 (maybe more, with the new line) and while your card(s) may be fanless, the majority of discrete graphics cards are not.
I've tried eyefinity and it won't work here. We have two sets of dual monitors that are cloned, Two over the console and two (cloned) at the MIDI station. and a third monitor for floating windows to the left of the main recording console. (5 in all)

Waves is the only developer that will not run perfectly on our system.

sunburst79
09-24-2013, 06:12 PM
So does anyone know if this is a PT only problem? Does it occur in Reaper, Logic Cubase etc?

Hi Tom:-)

mesaone
09-25-2013, 10:43 AM
I've tried eyefinity and it won't work here.

Do you mean Eyefinity won't work, or that the Waves plug-ins won't work?

Raoul23
09-25-2013, 01:09 PM
I've tried eyefinity and it won't work here. We have two sets of dual monitors that are cloned, Two over the console and two (cloned) at the MIDI station. and a third monitor for floating windows to the left of the main recording console. (5 in all)

Waves is the only developer that will not run perfectly on our system.

Glad you told us this Tom was then about to buy one of them cards!!!


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mesaone
09-25-2013, 02:19 PM
So I guess it's not multiple cards that cause the waves conflict, it's 3 or more monitors?

To clear this up, Tom, are you using Eyefinity with a single card? If you're using multiple cards, it may not be that Waves and Eyefinity are incompatible - it may just be that Waves (as stated) does not support multiple discrete video cards.

Because, depending on the situation, a single card feeding 3 monitors might work.

Bill Denton
09-25-2013, 03:47 PM
So I guess it's not multiple cards that cause the waves conflict, it's 3 or more monitors?

To clear this up, Tom, are you using Eyefinity with a single card? If you're using multiple cards, it may not be that Waves and Eyefinity are incompatible - it may just be that Waves (as stated) does not support multiple discrete video cards.

Because, depending on the situation, a single card feeding 3 monitors might work.

So I guess it's not multiple cards that cause the waves conflict, it's 3 or more monitors?

I'm afraid it's the opposite...from everything I've read it's the multiple graphics cards that is the problem.

Several people have reported Waves having acknowledged a problem with multiple graphics cards.

Supposedly, multiple monitors are okay if there is only one graphics card in the system...

mesaone
09-25-2013, 07:27 PM
Supposedly, multiple monitors are okay if there is only one graphics card in the system...

See, that's what I thought. That's why I recommended a single card with Eyefinity, so you can have more than 2 monitors and not encounter the Waves bug.

But them Tom says no, Eyefinity doesn't work, he's driving 5 monitors (incl 2 clones). What I'm trying to figure out is if he is using multiple video cards. I think he might have interpreted my comments to mean I thought Eyefinity was a way to get waves working with multiple video cards. I was saying that Eyefinity is an alternative to a multi-GPU system, since it allows 3+ monitors with a single card.

Because if he is using more than one video card (which is not supported) then how can we know that Eyefinity (support status unknown) is the problem?... And that means that a single Eyefinity card, as I had recommended to Raoul, could work. I would hate to find out that my recommendation given in good faith was so far off the mark.

Just to be clear about the AMD terminology, Crossfire is linking multiple cards. Eyefinity is using 3 or more monitors, and can be done with a single card or with multiple.

sunburst79
09-25-2013, 08:15 PM
While I think it would be nice to see Waves fix this in Toms case he might be able to clone the two displays using a couple of those MATROX TripleHead2Go units to mirror the displays. But he shouldn't have to.

Raoul23
09-25-2013, 11:01 PM
While I think it would be nice to see Waves fix this in Toms case he might be able to clone the two displays using a couple of those MATROX TripleHead2Go units to mirror the displays. But he shouldn't have to.

Waves should fix it, if every other plugin I have works ok why can't Waves make it work!!!!!


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sunburst79
09-26-2013, 05:33 AM
Waves should fix it, if every other plugin I have works ok why can't Waves make it work!!!!!


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I absolutely agree. But if the situation was ruining my accustomed workflow and I wanted and needed more monitors and Waves plugs hat's the only viable solution I can see in the meantime.

sw rec
09-26-2013, 03:02 PM
Supposedly, multiple monitors are okay if there is only one graphics card in the system...
Nope. I'm running 3 monitors off of a single MATROX 9140 card, and WAVES will NOT run on this system. AS I said earlier, I'm not disabling my 3-monitor setup for one lousy plugin.

noiseboyuk
09-27-2013, 11:53 AM
So does anyone know if this is a PT only problem? Does it occur in Reaper, Logic Cubase etc?

Hi Tom:-)

Never a problem in Audition or Cubase for me. Did have a problem in Pyramix, but haven't used that for a while.

Roll on the Sonnox Black Friday sale...

sunburst79
09-27-2013, 06:32 PM
Never a problem in Audition or Cubase for me. Did have a problem in Pyramix, but haven't used that for a while.

Roll on the Sonnox Black Friday sale...

Thank you.

How about Reaper or Logic? Anyone?

mesaone
09-28-2013, 01:58 PM
Thank you.

How about Reaper or Logic? Anyone?

Both Logic and Reaper actually have a function that replaces the UI with generic sliders and switches. I haven't tested it with a faulty Waves plug-in, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Reaper: Open the plug-in, and click the "UI" button on the top right.
Logic: Open the plug-in, click the "View" menu on the top left, and select "Controls"

TOM@METRO
09-28-2013, 04:24 PM
Supposedly, multiple monitors are okay if there is only one graphics card in the system...
Nope. I'm running 3 monitors off of a single MATROX 9140 card, and WAVES will NOT run on this system. AS I said earlier, I'm not disabling my 3-monitor setup for one lousy plugin.
Amen.

sunburst79
09-28-2013, 04:32 PM
Amen.

Tom will waves work with two cards and Reaper?

TOM@METRO
09-28-2013, 09:04 PM
Tom will waves work with two cards and Reaper?

No. It won't even work with stand alone GTR3.

noiseboyuk
09-29-2013, 02:54 PM
I've twice written to Waves to seek some clarity to them, over a week ago, and again on Friday. They haven't bothered to reply either time.

This is a real problem with their support - they want you to pay for the WUP, I suspect, before they engage you in conversation. But of course if you pay your $300 (or whatever it is) to then be told "we don't support multiple monitors goodbye", then its not exactly money well spend, is it?

sunburst79
09-29-2013, 04:22 PM
No. It won't even work with stand alone GTR3.

Thanks for getting back with that.

So Pro Tools and Reaper no and Audition and Cubase yes.

noiseboyuk
09-30-2013, 10:00 AM
So I did hear back from Waves today, and here's the reply:

Waves plug-ins are not supported with 4 monitors. (We officially support only one monitor, we also help users that have two monitors as unofficial support, but more than 2 monitors with Waves plug-ins is not qualified and not supported.)

As for the grey GUI issue;

I can guarantee that Waves V9 works perfectly on PT10 and PT11 on supported set ups.

This issue was solved a lot of time ago, currently we are not aware of this issue in PT10 or 11, and whenever we come across a user that suffer from that problem we can fix it.

It is not clear from your e mail if you have this issue right now.
If you do have this issue, try to update your graphic adaptor driver (from the manufacture internet site), this solves 95% of the GUI issues we know about.
Note: Tech-Support is exclusive service that is given to users that are covered by Waves Update Plan.

sw rec
09-30-2013, 10:57 AM
(We officially support only one monitor, we also help users that have two monitors as unofficial support, but more than 2 monitors with Waves plug-ins is not qualified and not supported.)
Geez, rather short-sighted, don't you think? I don't use Waves, never have, and can't say I will change my mind any time soon. Especially when even $39 P&M plugs don't have this silly limitation.

Raoul23
09-30-2013, 11:18 AM
So I did hear back from Waves today, and here's the reply:

I love my waves plugs but what a load of Bo!?ocks that is :-( now you can't downgrade to V8 either I'm not buying any more of their plugs so they are shooting themselves in the foot


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TOM@METRO
09-30-2013, 07:05 PM
(We officially support only one monitor, we also help users that have two monitors as unofficial support, but more than 2 monitors with Waves plug-ins is not qualified and not supported.)
Geez, rather short-sighted, don't you think? I don't use Waves, never have, and can't say I will change my mind any time soon. Especially when even $39 P&M plugs don't have this silly limitation.

Right. Nobody else has a problem with modern setups, only Waves. They really need to hire some 21st century coders.

noiseboyuk
10-16-2013, 02:15 PM
There's our answer - 40% off Sonox plugs and bundles. And they work on - gasp - multiple monitors. And AAX for futureproofing.

http://www.sonnoxplugins.com/pub/plugins/autumn-sale.htm

Looks to me like Waves aren't serious about the pro market any more. Such a shame.

albee1952
10-16-2013, 03:26 PM
Hmmm, so I just ordered another graphics card so I can run 3 or 4 screens, and just updated my Waves to the newest version. This could get interesting......:confused:

sw rec
10-16-2013, 08:20 PM
It could indeed. Let us know how that works out. (I'm running 4 monitors off a single card. No go with Waves, it locked up the computer. Win 7 Ultimate.)

Bill Denton
10-17-2013, 06:13 AM
It could indeed. Let us know how that works out. (I'm running 4 monitors off a single card. No go with Waves, it locked up the computer. Win 7 Ultimate.)

It would really be nice if folks would "name names" on their video cards, as it appears some single card / multiple monitor setups are working fine...

TOM@METRO
10-17-2013, 08:39 AM
Hmmm, so I just ordered another graphics card so I can run 3 or 4 screens, and just updated my Waves to the newest version. This could get interesting......:confused:

Hey Dave, when you do this, run 9r14. Let us know what happens.

sw rec
10-17-2013, 10:08 AM
It would really be nice if folks would "name names" on their video cards, as it appears some single card / multiple monitor setups are working fine...

Stated this earlier in the thread:

I'm running a Matrox 9140 QUAD monitor card. PT in the control room across three of them, and the fourth cloned to the center (edit window) monitor and placed in the booth. It works flawlessly on everything EXCEPT...tah dah...WAVES Eddie Kramer Drum Channel would lock the computer. WAVES says "disable 2 of your 3 monitors." I says "Uh, no." At least when I surrendered the license I got my money back, which I used to buy a PLUG n Mix digital reverb. Odd that even the cheap plugins (that work exceedingly well) had no issue with the multi-monitor setup, but WAVES does.

noiseboyuk
10-17-2013, 05:28 PM
There's our answer - 40% off Sonox plugs and bundles. And they work on - gasp - multiple monitors. And AAX for futureproofing.

http://www.sonnoxplugins.com/pub/plugins/autumn-sale.htm

Looks to me like Waves aren't serious about the pro market any more. Such a shame.

Just got my Sonnox Elite bundle, and I'll wean off Waves over the next few months. For anyone interested, there's a further 10% off at jrrshop (you need to add it to the cart for the extra discount to show).

Hoping that one day Waves will revist their insane no-multiple-monitor policy - they of course have some great stuff. But I need something that just works, and is an industry standard - so Sonnox it is.

TOM@METRO
10-18-2013, 08:41 AM
It would really be nice if folks would "name names" on their video cards, as it appears some single card / multiple monitor setups are working fine...

Stated this earlier in the thread:

I'm running a Matrox 9140 QUAD monitor card. PT in the control room across three of them, and the fourth cloned to the center (edit window) monitor and placed in the booth. It works flawlessly on everything EXCEPT...tah dah...WAVES Eddie Kramer Drum Channel would lock the computer. WAVES says "disable 2 of your 3 monitors." I says "Uh, no." At least when I surrendered the license I got my money back, which I used to buy a PLUG n Mix digital reverb. Odd that even the cheap plugins (that work exceedingly well) had no issue with the multi-monitor setup, but WAVES does.
Waves is the only plug-in developer that has been unable to solve this issue. I would sure like to be able to justify all of the $$$ spent on them.

paulreed
10-23-2013, 06:09 AM
I just spoke with WAVES again.
They have no information but do seem to finally agree they have an issue.
I was told I would be sent an email when it was fixed but they would not say if they were working on it.

I let them know they are losing customers, they do seem to be aware.

MCDSP is looking better and better......I do love the AC1 :)

sw rec
10-23-2013, 11:08 AM
I always liked the McDSP compressor bank, except that when I went WIN 7, the "upgrade path" was just about exactly what I paid to begin with, essentially meaning I had to re-purchase them. So I found alternatives.

noiseboyuk
10-24-2013, 07:42 AM
I just spoke with WAVES again.
They have no information but do seem to finally agree they have an issue.
I was told I would be sent an email when it was fixed but they would not say if they were working on it.

I let them know they are losing customers, they do seem to be aware.

MCDSP is looking better and better......I do love the AC1 :)

Oh that's promising. Here's hoping...

TOM@METRO
10-26-2013, 07:26 PM
I just spoke with WAVES again.
They have no information but do seem to finally agree they have an issue.
I was told I would be sent an email when it was fixed but they would not say if they were working on it.

I let them know they are losing customers, they do seem to be aware.

MCDSP is looking better and better......I do love the AC1 :)

Even an acknowledgment is better that what we've had so far from Waves.

noiseboyuk
10-29-2013, 06:56 AM
Even an acknowledgment is better that what we've had so far from Waves.

Well not quite sure that's right - iirc they were acknowledging it two years ago, and there was a release candidate of v9 that worked for some people on some systems. But rather than then seeing it through so it worked consistently, they apparently decided it wasn't worth the bother so they just decided to completely discontinue support for multi-monitor setups (ie the vast majority of pro rigs). I'll be delighted if this is a change of heart though.

noiseboyuk
11-18-2013, 02:12 PM
I just had a back and forth with Waves today. The upshot - no plans to do anything about multi monitor support whatsoever.

I'd urge all affected to a) make their displeasure known, and b) migrate to a different developer.

Southsidemusic
11-18-2013, 02:27 PM
This Waves BS is getting worse and worse .. THANK GOD there are other developers that are "Getting With The Times" and knows how we work. The more I work with Waves the more I feel that Waves are "Old" and dated and doesn't really do anything for me anymore. There are soo many other devs that puts out great stuff that not only looks and feels "Modern" but sounds Great.

I chose option NR.2!

Best
Christopher

Raoul23
11-18-2013, 02:28 PM
What the F&!k is this company playing at first no AAX DSP now no plans to fix multiple graphic card bugs!!!!!!. When they would allow you to downgrade to version 8 I was always buying their plugs and upgrading current bundles now they have stopped doing that I don't even look at the waves sale emails that I get I just delete them let alone think about buying any of there plugs anymore. They are losing business and they don't even care obviously its crazy. Its a shame really coz I like alot of the stuff they do and would like to upgrade my current bundle but not until they sort this :(


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noiseboyuk
01-11-2014, 03:48 AM
Just rebooting this thread - by accident I've found several references to the multiple monitor Waves issue being known among multiple AMD cards. I'm looking at building a new rig in a month or two, and figure I may as well go for 2 fanless geforce cards, in the hope that Waves will be more reliable with them. Does anyone here have any experience of multiple Geforce cards and Waves?

sw rec
01-13-2014, 11:06 AM
Hmmm...it didn't work on a MATROX 9140, but no experience with GeForce cards.

TOM@METRO
01-13-2014, 12:16 PM
This Waves graphics card bug is still in full force. We still can only run Waves on the smaller rigs.

The large rig with multiple graphics cards is a total fail with Waves.

Very disconcerting.

noiseboyuk
01-15-2014, 03:01 PM
Thanks sw_rec - I'd read elsewhere that Matrox wasn't a goer, along with the AMD series.

Tom, which card(s) are you using? Still hoping to hear the GeForce series might work.

TOM@METRO
01-15-2014, 04:33 PM
Right now, the offending rig is all ATI. However in all of my discussions with Waves on this subject, I'm told that Waves does not support multiple video cards PERIOD. Who knows though, you may get lucky.

Please report back if you find a working solution.

noiseboyuk
01-16-2014, 01:34 PM
Right now, the offending rig is all ATI. However in all of my discussions with Waves on this subject, I'm told that Waves does not support multiple video cards PERIOD. Who knows though, you may get lucky.

Please report back if you find a working solution.

Yes - Waves definitely don't support ANY multi video cards, and don't officially support even multiple monitors at all. But as I say, I have read that - unofficially - GeForce cards don't exhibit this grey gui bug.

I'm getting a new rig in March, hoping someone with GeForce will pop up on this thread before then. If not - I'll let you know what I eventually find.

noiseboyuk
01-30-2014, 08:21 AM
Just to add here - I did hear from someone at another forum running two fanless GT210s with PT and Waves SUCCESSFULLY - no grey gui. Also I've heard a couple of folks mixing manufacturers who have run the combination OK.

mesaone
01-30-2014, 12:27 PM
I'm getting a new rig in March, hoping someone with GeForce will pop up on this thread before then. If not - I'll let you know what I eventually find.

I have a PC with a GeForce GTX 470 card. Dual monitors, 1920x1080 (one connected through mini-HDMI, the other through DVI). I have never encountered the Waves bug people are talking about. Everything running fine, from Reaper to Cubase to Pro Tools 10+11.

Raoul23
01-30-2014, 12:35 PM
I thought the GUI issue only affected those who had dual graphics cards not dual monitors ??

mesaone
01-30-2014, 01:03 PM
I was just replying since I am a GeForce user and he was asking about GeForce cards specifically.

Raoul23
01-30-2014, 01:11 PM
I was just replying since I am a GeForce user and he was asking about GeForce cards specifically.

Sorry thought I'd missed something and was gonna buy some new cards ;)

TOM@METRO
01-30-2014, 01:27 PM
I thought the GUI issue only affected those who had dual graphics cards not dual monitors ??

All to true. I have dual monitor single card rigs that will support Waves.

It's the multiple cards that "grey screen" everything.

noiseboyuk
01-31-2014, 05:40 AM
All to true. I have dual monitor single card rigs that will support Waves.

It's the multiple cards that "grey screen" everything.

Actually on p2 sw_rec reported grey guis on a single Matrox card driving 4 monitors. I'm not 100% sure therefore that the problem is unique to 2 cards, or that it necessarily applies to more than 2 screens.

So what have we learned? The safest catch-all is the the one that Waves themselves adopt, that multiple displays of any kind are not supported (which is bonkers, but safe). You're highly liable to have problems with 2 cards, but if at least one is a GeForce you might well be ok. And if you are running a single card with 3+ monitors, you might get problems too. You'll probably - but not definitely - be ok with 2 monitors and one card.

mesaone
01-31-2014, 08:46 AM
I'll hook up a third monitor to my single geforce card, and report back this weekend.

michael c
01-31-2014, 10:50 AM
So Waves won't work on the new MacPros?! They all have dual graphics cards.

Raoul23
01-31-2014, 10:54 AM
So Waves won't work on the new MacPros?! They all have dual graphics cards.

WOW this is a good point !!! Waves will lose even more market share if that happens

sw rec
02-02-2014, 11:14 AM
Actually on p2 sw_rec reported grey guis on a single Matrox card driving 4 monitors. I'm not 100% sure therefore that the problem is unique to 2 cards, or that it necessarily applies to more than 2 screens.

In fact, my "glitch" went beyond greyed-out GUI. I'd get the spinning icon of death, and the session would hang. The ONLY way out was a hard-restart.
Bottom line for me is, I've been without WAVES plugins for a long time...I had bought the Kramer Drum Channel because it was a low-cost risk, which did not work out at ALL, so I won't be looking there for any future PIs. Kudos to Waves for at least giving me my money back. They need a big red disclaimer at the top of their page that says
"Do NOT buy our poorly-thought-out plugins if you're running multiple monitors."

Raoul23
02-10-2014, 12:56 PM
Someone on Gearslutz posted this earlier that they updated there intel graphic accelerator drivers and the greyed out GUI has gone

mesaone
02-10-2014, 01:05 PM
Someone on Gearslutz posted this earlier that they updated there intel graphic accelerator drivers and the greyed out GUI has gone

Sounds like they were using integrated graphics, not a discrete video card. This won't be of use to anyone using a PCIe card by Nvidia or AMD.

Raoul23
02-10-2014, 01:07 PM
Sounds like they were using integrated graphics, not a discrete video card. This won't be of use to anyone using a PCIe card by Nvidia or AMD.

Oh that's a bummer thought it might have be a solution :(

mesaone
02-10-2014, 01:12 PM
Oh that's a bummer thought it might have be a solution :(

I believe the problem is how Waves operates with OpenGL. If I'm right, driver updates are not likely to fix the problem. Waves will have to roll up their sleeves and figure it out.

AdHawk
02-12-2014, 01:52 PM
We ran laptop display+ one hdmi display + one thunderbolt to hdmi display + one thunderbolt chassi with blackmagic intensity pro hdmi display.
Pt Hd11 and Waves Mercury without problems on a Mbp

noiseboyuk
02-13-2014, 05:28 AM
I believe the problem is how Waves operates with OpenGL. If I'm right, driver updates are not likely to fix the problem. Waves will have to roll up their sleeves and figure it out.

I don't think it's going to happen - it's been 2 years and counting, and in my last correspondence they showed no interest whatsoever in sorting it.

So, as I see it, there are two known solutions. 1 - abandon Waves. 2 - Buy GeForce video cards.

Raoul23
02-13-2014, 05:39 AM
I don't think it's going to happen - it's been 2 years and counting, and in my last correspondence they showed no interest whatsoever in sorting it.

So, as I see it, there are two known solutions. 1 - abandon Waves. 2 - Buy GeForce video cards.

So GeForce cards work ok with waves. Is it a specific modal or any GeForce card :)

TOM@METRO
02-13-2014, 08:24 AM
GeForce video cards do not solve the Waves issue here. Until they learn to move into the 21st century, we are stuck going elsewhere.

sw rec
02-13-2014, 11:28 AM
Until they learn to move into the 21st century, we are stuck going elsewhere.

Surviving just fine here with NO Waves plugins, but I'm starting to get impatient for UAudio to get their AAX ducks in a row for Windows.

TOM@METRO
02-13-2014, 12:50 PM
Until they learn to move into the 21st century, we are stuck going elsewhere.

Surviving just fine here with NO Waves plugins, but I'm starting to get impatient for UAudio to get their AAX ducks in a row for Windows.

I pretty much survive here as well. There are a couple of them I would still use on the main rig, but...

They seem to be so wrapped up in their Digigrid world that plug-ins have become an afterthought.

propower
02-13-2014, 12:59 PM
Not just graphics -

Waves plugins will not work at 96kHz and buffers of 64 or 128. Opening one of them and adjusting parameters will quickly result in CPU errors - (though there is no strain shown on the PT meters). I went through the whole tech support loop and they finally admited they had no HD Native TB rig to test against and suggested I use larger buffers. Strangely - leaving the plugins on the session but never opening the GUI (so maybe related to video!) seems to actually work but that is way too much thinking for me :-)

I have used Waves since 1998 and have a substantial investment. Regardless - if I get by another 6 months without them - off to the resale market before WUP runs out :-)

lancemcv
02-16-2014, 09:39 AM
First time I've heard about this... I run two graphics cards in my 2009 Mac Pro 8 core, a 5870 and a 2600xt but have had no issues with PT 10 and waves 9 plugins using three monitors and sometimes a fourth hd tv for mixing to picture. Only working with 48k 24bit for the most part. I'm planning on upgrading my graphics card to a 7970 soon so I can ditch the 1600xt and gain a card slot back though I won't be able to run 4 monitors. I guess one way around it might be using a usb to dvi adapter for one monitor, that would at least provide an extra monitor without a second video card.

noiseboyuk
03-15-2014, 06:50 AM
Some good news (well, for me anyway....) I can confirm that Waves 9.2 plugins work correctly on a 4 monitor setup fed from 2x Asus GeForce GT610s. Tested a range of Gold plugins on PT 10.3.7 that were problematic under the Radeon cards, and all behaved normally - the grey GUI is gone.

Raoul23
03-15-2014, 06:54 AM
Some good news (well, for me anyway....) I can confirm that Waves 9.2 plugins work correctly on a 4 monitor setup fed from 2x Asus GeForce GT610s. Tested a range of Gold plugins on PT 10.3.7 that were problematic under the Radeon cards, and all behaved normally - the grey GUI is gone.

This is awesome news I hope it works for me. Ill prob test this out tomorrow when I've finished a session I'm working on :)

TOM@METRO
03-15-2014, 07:18 AM
It's not working here unless I'm stretching across the screens. If I mirror them, Waves shows up with all grayed out graphics.

Raoul23
03-15-2014, 07:28 AM
It's not working here unless I'm stretching across the screens. If I mirror them, Waves shows up with all grayed out graphics.

I stretch my PT screen across all 3 monitors midi on 1 edit on 2 and mix on 3 Tom are you saying it will work like this ??

JFreak
03-15-2014, 11:12 AM
Waves plugins will not work at 96kHz and buffers of 64 or 128. Opening one of them and adjusting parameters will quickly result in CPU errors

I'm not seeing this behavior here. With those buffers it is perfectly okay to track 96kHz/32bit-float with plenty of Waves plugs and let's say about 48-64 voices.

TOM@METRO
03-16-2014, 10:30 AM
I stretch my PT screen across all 3 monitors midi on 1 edit on 2 and mix on 3 Tom are you saying it will work like this ??
I'm saying that with the perfect combination of graphics cards and settings, I have been able to get stretching to work. I have never been able to do this when it involves mirroring monitors with two or more cards. Waves has freely admitted that they have a problem with this. They just haven't been able to fix it in the years since version 9 was introduced.

Raoul23
03-16-2014, 01:20 PM
I'm saying that with the perfect combination of graphics cards and settings, I have been able to get stretching to work. I have never been able to do this when it involves mirroring monitors with two or more cards. Waves has freely admitted that they have a problem with this. They just haven't been able to fix it in the years since version 9 was introduced.

Thanks Tom :) might try it and see what happens fingers crossed

TOM@METRO
03-16-2014, 01:32 PM
It's worth a try for sure. Good luck.

noiseboyuk
03-17-2014, 01:36 AM
Just to add, I've never tried mirroring, I just use stretched monitors and that works fine with the GT610s (and I suspect any GeForce combo).

TOM@METRO
03-17-2014, 08:01 AM
Stretching across two or even three monitors can work, even though not supported by Waves. But when it involves mirroring for multiple locations, Waves really falls apart.

Fortunately all other Plug-In vendors have this figured out. Waves is the only one falling this far behind.

Raoul23
03-17-2014, 08:45 AM
Stretching across two or even three monitors can work, even though not supported by Waves. But when it involves mirroring for multiple locations, Waves really falls apart.

Fortunately all other Plug-In vendors have this figured out. Waves is the only one falling this far behind.

When version 9 came out I could never get them to work with a stretched screen ill try again today and see what happens :)

TOM@METRO
03-17-2014, 09:01 AM
When version 9 came out I could never get them to work with a stretched screen ill try again today and see what happens :)

Some cards have better luck than others.

Raoul23
03-17-2014, 10:46 AM
Sadly V9r17 didn't work for me lots of greyed out areas :( so still no more plugin buying till they fix this :(

noiseboyuk
03-18-2014, 12:48 PM
Are you still on ATI, Raoul? AFAIK there are NO cards that work with more than one video card EXCEPT GeForce.

I must admit, I didn't really appreciate how cheap fanless GeForce cards were - here in the UK it was 30 each. Compared to the costs of the plugins, pretty cheap. If there are no other restrictive factors and you've heavily invested in Waves, I'd definitely recommend switching cards. It's hugely irritating that Waves alone can't be bothered to fix their stuff, but sheer pragmatism won out for me in the end.

Raoul23
03-18-2014, 01:06 PM
Are you still on ATI, Raoul? AFAIK there are NO cards that work with more than one video card EXCEPT GeForce.

Yeah Noiseboyuk I'm still on the ATI. What GeForce cards are you using ill start scanning eBay :)

noiseboyuk
03-21-2014, 04:00 AM
Yeah Noiseboyuk I'm still on the ATI. What GeForce cards are you using ill start scanning eBay :)

Asus GT 610 fanless.

TOM@METRO
03-21-2014, 07:51 AM
Are you still on ATI, Raoul?
I must admit, I didn't really appreciate how cheap fanless GeForce cards were - here in the UK it was 30 each. Compared to the costs of the plugins, pretty cheap. If there are no other restrictive factors and you've heavily invested in Waves, I'd definitely recommend switching cards. It's hugely irritating that Waves alone can't be bothered to fix their stuff, but sheer pragmatism won out for me in the end.

I run 3 ATI 5450 video cards with Waves. As long as I stretch across the 3 monitors it works. Mirroring monitors is where Waves fails for me.

Do you have success with mirroring monitors with your G-Force cards?

noiseboyuk
03-21-2014, 01:30 PM
Hi Tom - I've never tried to be honest! I only ever run in stretch mode. If its easy to switch on a test (should be) I'll have a quick play at the weekend.

TOM@METRO
03-21-2014, 07:49 PM
Hi Tom - I've never tried to be honest! I only ever run in stretch mode. If its easy to switch on a test (should be) I'll have a quick play at the weekend.
Much appreciated.

noiseboyuk
03-22-2014, 11:29 AM
Hi Tom - so I put 2 of the 4 displays into clone mode, so that my two monitors I usually stretch PT across were displaying exactly the same thing at the same time. The good news is that all the Waves plugs I tried displayed completely normally.

Hope that helps - cheers.

TOM@METRO
04-26-2014, 09:18 AM
Hi Tom - so I put 2 of the 4 displays into clone mode, so that my two monitors I usually stretch PT across were displaying exactly the same thing at the same time. The good news is that all the Waves plugs I tried displayed completely normally.

Hope that helps - cheers.

Thanks,

A little question... Did you clone the two monitors on the same video card or two separate cards?

noiseboyuk
05-13-2014, 03:56 AM
Thanks,

A little question... Did you clone the two monitors on the same video card or two separate cards?

Sorry Tom I didn't reply to this, did I? It looks like from my graphics card software I can only clone 2 monitors on the same card, so I can't easily test that setup.

TOM@METRO
05-13-2014, 06:32 PM
Thanks.

Raoul23
06-28-2014, 09:55 AM
Just a bump on this, I've gone from 3 screens to 2 screens I do have 2 graphics cards in my PC if I take one card out and use both screens on just the one card will I still suffer this bug guys :confused:

sw rec
06-29-2014, 11:27 AM
One way to find out! (I did make a point of telling WAVES that I wasn't willing to deactivate my triple monitor setup just so I could run, specifically, THEIR plugins.)

Raoul23
07-02-2014, 05:57 AM
Ok I'm running 2 monitors off 1 ATI card I took the other one out and so far no waves grey GUI :)

On another note:- with the big waves sale they had last week I thought about buying some new plugs. So I looked into the J37 and being on TDM spoke to a waves employer and they told me the plugin worked TDM if you got the soundgrid version so I purchased it. Only to find its native only. So I rung waves and they were very rude about the mix up. I'm not buying anything from this company again!!!!!!!

TOM@METRO
07-02-2014, 05:52 PM
Just to keep it clear...

It's multiple video cards that present the horrible GUI failure with Waves. Most of the time you can get away with dual monitors on one video card with most of their plug-ins. They just can't seen to figure this one out after two years of being broken.

sw rec
07-06-2014, 10:19 AM
Most of the time you can get away with dual monitors on one video card

Using a MATROX 9140-single card to drive 3 monitors. Waves plugins create the spinning icon of death and require a hard restart. At least they were kind about giving me my money back when I surrendered the license. STILL not willing to undo a great monitor setup for one company that's just way behind. There plenty of other plugins that do the same thing without this ridiculous limitation.

yoh
08-28-2014, 12:34 AM
Using a MATROX 9140-single card to drive 3 monitors. Waves plugins create the spinning icon of death and require a hard restart. At least they were kind about giving me my money back when I surrendered the license. STILL not willing to undo a great monitor setup for one company that's just way behind. There plenty of other plugins that do the same thing without this ridiculous limitation.


FYI The problem you've described here was resolved with the latest driver (10/2013)
I run Matrox 9140 with 4 monitors and Waves plugins without a hitch.

it's worth a try :)

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/support/drivers/

robbiemacman
11-11-2014, 03:40 AM
Hello all new to this forum and a Logic X user but I think I have been bitten on the bum by this same issue & I ONLY RUN one monitor.

I just bought a brand new 12 Core Mac Pro with the view of using it worldwide for producing. I found the ideal monitor to go with it which is an ASUS MB168B+ usb 3 monitor as its only 8mm thick & weighs virtually nothing & can be put in a bag along with the MacPro....Everything was going great & I had installed my whole system including Waves Mercury / Studio Classics......Tried it out & everything ran perfectly including all my plugins (some 300+) from many vendors EXCEPT any of the Waves ones that come up with blank dark great GUI....Please tell me this is not a Waves plugin problem as otherwise my whole dream of a truly portable system is ruined as I cannot drag a full size monitor around on planes....
I heard that there were problems with Waves plugins on multiple monitors but I am literally only using this one small ASUS. 15" ......... So is Waves statement about only supporting single monitor setups intact not even correct? Anyone ?

10.9.4 / Logic X 10.7 / Latest Full Waves Installer latest of everything else

mesaone
11-11-2014, 09:20 AM
Is your mac pro set to use the integrated graphics, instead of the discrete card? Are your waves plug-ins licensed?

TOM@METRO
11-11-2014, 10:11 AM
Is your mac pro set to use the integrated graphics, instead of the discrete card? Are your waves plug-ins licensed?

^^^ Good questions. ^^^

I have never heard of a GUI issue with Waves and a single monitor.

JFreak
11-11-2014, 10:23 AM
I have a secondary TB display and zero Waves-related problems

mesaone
11-11-2014, 10:26 AM
I have never heard of a GUI issue with Waves and a single monitor.

I've read about it, but not seen it myself. It happened with a certain driver release for Intel integrated graphics. And, as you can guess, many users reporting a similar error had obtained their plug-ins through questionable channels.

Southsidemusic
11-14-2014, 06:54 PM
In our production/writer room we run 2 X 27" samsung screens from the MBPr

One from the thunderbolt port and one from the HDMI port and we use the retina screen from the MBP for plugins and Console 1 and never had any issues with waves or any other plugin developer. Is this still an issue for some people here or has it gone away with updates and upgrades? Our OSX 10.8.5 and PTHD 11.2.1 = 0 problems with Waves with the 3 screens used, dragged out the desktop and worked right away.

Or is this a Tower / Desktop computer issue and not a MBP issue?

Thanks for any imput here :-)

Best Regards
Christopher

mesaone
11-14-2014, 07:12 PM
One from the thunderbolt port and one from the HDMI port and we use the retina screen from the MBP for plugins and Console 1

So you have 3 screens running simultaneously, no problems?

Southsidemusic
11-14-2014, 07:28 PM
So you have 3 screens running simultaneously, no problems?

Yes. No problems what so ever. Two screens from the MBPR and the 15" screen and no issues at all. Just dragged out the desktop and when I plugged in the two external screens they worked "plug'n play" right off the bat.

Yes there is a slight display difference that needed to be corrected as the DVI to thunderbolt is better than the HDMI so a little color corrcting but that was it.

mesaone
11-14-2014, 07:43 PM
This is good to know. Proof of concept that Waves can in fact run on >2 monitors.

Christopher, if it's not too much trouble, could you try running two screens mirrored, with the third being unique? For example, MBPr and HDMI show the same screen, and thunderbolt shows a different one.

Southsidemusic
11-15-2014, 04:42 AM
Hey

Tried and it works :-)

I tried all different configurations and no problems at all.

Hope that helps

Best Regards
Christopher

TOM@METRO
11-15-2014, 01:00 PM
While there is a known issue with multiple graphics cards in some configurations, I have not seen issues with a single card in any configuration. Those who run typical setups are not likely to see problems.