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View Full Version : which pitch correction software is best?


B2RPW
07-19-2013, 10:35 AM
I need to buy a pitch correction software for my studio that runs PT10 on Mac OS 10.8.4. The main application is fixing vocals, mostly individual lines but some small groups as well. I'm not looking for the T-Pain effect although I will probably use it from time to time just because its there. If I can also use it to touch up other instruments even better. I'd prefer to rely on presets as much as possible and not have to do corrections note by note.

I know there is Antares Autotune and Melodyne. Any thoughts on which one is more appropriate based on my requirements, ease of use and price which are my top 3. Also any other products out there I should consider?

albee1952
07-19-2013, 06:07 PM
Melodyne Editor. It will allow you to do things that should NOT be able to be done. Here's 2; how about 4 part harmony sung on a single mic, WITH someone tapping their foot on the mic stand base(oh, did I mention that the 4 parts were....um....WRONG?). Yep, Melodyne and I fixed that and saved a full day of re-recording vocals. I needed an upright bass in a song but don't own one. Played the part on a Stingray. Fed it to Melodyne, exported as a midi file, imported midi to the session, sent it to my Motif es8 on the upright bass patch......client thrilled! I rest my case:D

B2RPW
07-21-2013, 08:33 AM
Melodyne Editor. It will allow you to do things that should NOT be able to be done. Here's 2; how about 4 part harmony sung on a single mic, WITH someone tapping their foot on the mic stand base(oh, did I mention that the 4 parts were....um....WRONG?). Yep, Melodyne and I fixed that and saved a full day of re-recording vocals. I needed an upright bass in a song but don't own one. Played the part on a Stingray. Fed it to Melodyne, exported as a midi file, imported midi to the session, sent it to my Motif es8 on the upright bass patch......client thrilled! I rest my case:D

Ok that's a pretty persuasive argument. Are you saying Autotune can't do that or just that you know it can be done in Melodyne? Also, do you have any opinion on ease of use, particularly the ability to do simple things with presets or limited manual corrections. Also do I need the full version or will one of the less expensive version work?

My main application will be correcting single melody line vocals and occasionally group vocals recorded on a stereo mic. Once in a while I might also use it to touch up a guitar solo too, but not near as important as vocal fixing. BTW many of the vocals I need to fix are sung by children, does that make a difference?

jacko
07-21-2013, 09:00 AM
Waves Tune is very good.

Bob Olhsson
07-21-2013, 09:34 AM
Melodyne replaced AutoTune for most of the top pro vocal editors several years ago. It sounded better and I suspect did less harm to the timing. (In the early daze every AutoTune pass needed to be followed by a VocAlign pass to restore the phrasing and even then things often needed to be nudged around.)

I only tune vocals for my own infrequent productions and in my old age I'm very picky about the abilities of the singers I'll work with. Waves Tune showed up in my Mercury bundle and was enough better that I never upgraded Auto-Tune.

bashville
07-21-2013, 10:21 AM
The thing about Autotune is that if you've got a performance that's good with just a couple notes to be adjusted, you don't have to go through an extra analysis step and adjust things by hand. There's an "Auto" mode that just fixes it in real-time. So it's incredibly fast to work with that way. You have to know the scales and keys so can automate the key when you need to. It's not always appropriate, but it can be the quick and dirty fix until you want to get more detailed.

Whenever I've glanced at the directions for Melodyne or Waves, it looks like you have to go into this separate world of dragging the notes around on the screen. Waves relies on Rewire, so just ponder that for a moment. Autotune also has a graphic mode, but the fast mode is very valuable when you're doing a big block of BG's really fast. You just slap the plug on, and it's done.

I also thought when I tried Melodyne a few years ago, that it had kind of plasticky sound compared to Autotune, like it was reconstructing the entire performance according to its parameters, whereas it seemed Autotune was only touching the moments it needed to. Maybe that's changed.

It's like Bob said--your method is going to be dependent on the type of singers you're dealing with. If someone can tell me that Melodyne has the same capability without doing the analysis step, I'd love to know. I own Melodyne editor, and couldn't find it, but I admit I wasn't digging too hard, because I already have what I need at the moment.

A new issue for Autotune is that the older version (5) I was using forever, which still works in PT10, has hardly any delay in Native mode, whereas the new plug 7 with extra graphical stuff is something like 500 samples. So that's progress.

Bob Olhsson
07-21-2013, 10:34 AM
The thing about Autotune is that if you've got a performance that's good with just a couple notes to be adjusted, you don't have to go through an extra analysis step and adjust things by hand. There's an "Auto" mode that just fixes it in real-time. So it's incredibly fast to work with that way...Unfortunately this also really screws with the timing and phrasing.

bashville
07-21-2013, 11:03 AM
Unfortunately this also really screws with the timing and phrasing.

I have WAY not noticed this, and I'm usually pretty good with those things. If you're talking about on a millisecond-measured level where you'd hear phasing or very slight slap-delay issues compared to the original, I'll defer to your ears, since the usage I'm talking about is to make it better fast.

But if you mean like throwing the performance out of sync, where it sounds like the performer came in wrong, or is just off, then I can't agree, and I've been using some version of it for a long time.

It's hard if we can't be listening to the same thing at the same time, because I'd love to hear what you're hearing. You mentioned the "early days" working with it. I've been using version 5 of it for a long time (I think I had it since 3?); maybe what you're talking about improved in subsequent versions.

bashville
07-21-2013, 11:09 AM
The only other issue I'll mention with Autotune in "Auto" mode, is that you have to be careful with the "onset" speed when there is vibrato in the performance. The algorithm starts chasing the vibrato and trying to adjust the pitch, when obviously it's supposed to be undulating a little. You're better off in graphic mode with that.

TOM@METRO
07-21-2013, 12:25 PM
Waves Tune has been my "go-to" for years. This is the Waves plug-in I am really missing in PT11 while waiting for AAX.

Emcha_audio
07-22-2013, 03:51 AM
I'm presently playing around with melodyne editor to see how it handles polyphony. Fed it a full wind orchestra with drums that didn't play so well on their recording ( not totally in tune) and bam. a hella better (I'm not setting the pitch correction nor the pitch drift to 100% even though when I tried it at 100% it sounded good). We're talking of flutes, piccolos, tubas, euphoniums, trombones, sax altos, tenors and baritones, clarinets altos and baritones, trumpets, french horns for a total of 23 players.

//edit I should have mentioned that I've tried track by track, which is fine but long, and also tried stemming down all the tracks but the room tracks, then I corrected the stem down, then the room track and then passed it through a small stage reverb and concert hall reverb from space. The concert happened in a very dead room so it needed it and this was really the best result I got from the tests I've done. Stemming down even with the room tracks did a very good job too, but since I didn't want to sent the stage reverb and concert hall reverb to the room track, I had to do both separately.

albee1952
07-22-2013, 11:59 AM
The newer version of Melodyne do sound better by far than the early ones. While I agree that Autotune is faster, the result with Melodyne, if its done right, is that its completely invisible to all except a trained ear, and if you know how it sounded before:D. Autotune is more easily spotted.

YYR123
07-22-2013, 12:36 PM
Waves Tune has been my "go-to" for years. This is the Waves plug-in I am really missing in PT11 while waiting for AAX.

Yeah right off the bat I prefer waves tune - it's just so much simpler for me to get my head around and results out (and for God sakes who doesn't need tuning...)

I've had melo for years but I find it laborious and not exactly what I want out of it -

danander11
07-22-2013, 02:57 PM
Like Albee said, Used correctly, you'll never know Melodyne is there. I use studio for everything now, though I have a couple of others I use occasionaly.

Melo is great for reducing things like vibrato and formants and such when needed.. A lot of time all that needs to be adjusted is just the pitch center, resulting in a nice, pleasing, and not 'tuned' performance.. natural. It's not the same as tuning to pitch... and it allows you to retain all of the nuance and character of the performer.

Combined with Serato PnT Pro and Revoice PRo, it's a killer suite for massaging things into a pleasing result.

albee1952
07-22-2013, 06:59 PM
Good point on Formant adjustment. I was just asked to pitch a session up 3 steps(from E to G). The music sounded fine(thanks to Serato P'nT), but the BGV tracks did not(paging Alvin......). I ran the re-pitched BGV tracks thru Melodyne and dragged the formant down between 2 and 3 steps(on the Melodyne grid) and the vocals then sounded correct(a singer's voice I know very well). This saved the client paying to re-track 8 tracks of BGV. Autotune could not do this(or I don't know HOW to make it happen).

danander11
07-24-2013, 12:41 AM
Good point on Formant adjustment. I was just asked to pitch a session up 3 steps(from E to G). The music sounded fine(thanks to Serato P'nT), but the BGV tracks did not(paging Alvin......). I ran the re-pitched BGV tracks thru Melodyne and dragged the formant down between 2 and 3 steps(on the Melodyne grid) and the vocals then sounded correct(a singer's voice I know very well). This saved the client paying to re-track 8 tracks of BGV. Autotune could not do this(or I don't know HOW to make it happen).

'zackly... ;)

guitardom
07-24-2013, 08:51 PM
Good point on Formant adjustment. I was just asked to pitch a session up 3 steps(from E to G). The music sounded fine(thanks to Serato P'nT), but the BGV tracks did not(paging Alvin......). I ran the re-pitched BGV tracks thru Melodyne and dragged the formant down between 2 and 3 steps(on the Melodyne grid) and the vocals then sounded correct(a singer's voice I know very well). This saved the client paying to re-track 8 tracks of BGV. Autotune could not do this(or I don't know HOW to make it happen).

I have never taken the time to learn melodyne, though I have wanted to. I started using auto tune in 2001 and have got efficient and extremely comfortable with it and have never looked back. Graphic mode is quite powerful. Since getting into Revoice, it has changed my perspective and how I think about tuning differently. I need to get motivated and jump into melodyne and check it out to.

YYR123
07-24-2013, 10:13 PM
Revoice looks like it rocks

TOM@METRO
07-25-2013, 08:33 AM
Revoice looks like it rocks

It does.

YYR123
07-25-2013, 08:43 AM
It does.

I had found somebody wanting to sell me their vocal align pro v4 before this whole ilok fiasco started

bashville
07-25-2013, 10:27 AM
I have never taken the time to learn melodyne, though I have wanted to. I started using auto tune in 2001 and have got efficient and extremely comfortable with it and have never looked back. Graphic mode is quite powerful. Since getting into Revoice, it has changed my perspective and how I think about tuning differently. I need to get motivated and jump into melodyne and check it out to.

Did you notice any post-processing alignment problems with any version of Autotune?

Also still curious to hear from people familiar with the Waves, Melodyne, and now ReVoice if there is a quick and dirty mode in any of those like "automatic" in Autotune. I'm checking my post-RTAS options!

Thanks

danander11
07-25-2013, 10:14 PM
Did you notice any post-processing alignment problems with any version of Autotune?

Also still curious to hear from people familiar with the Waves, Melodyne, and now ReVoice if there is a quick and dirty mode in any of those like "automatic" in Autotune. I'm checking my post-RTAS options!

Thanks


The problem with a 'push a button and everything is peachy' type of automatic tuning is that it will just be a generic, one-size-fits-all result. And what one person thinks is good, the next will say is awful.

Vocals are like any instrument... they should be unique to the muso. The idea with tuning should be more about polishing than fixing. Bad singers will always be bad singers. There will never be a plug-in to fix that.

I just finished an albums worth of stuff for a mate that had two very good singers alternating between lead and backing vox. Each one of them required a different approach as their technique was different.. One sang with a bent towards going just a skosh flat, but wavering back to pitch... It suits his voice and the songs he writes very well. All I did was to make sure that when he went flat, he didn't go too flat, or sharp... Knocking the rough edges off so to speak. The other voice was a female and prone to a lot of vibrato and gymnastics which usually suited well, but upon retrospection, was decided just a tad too much in places.. With melodyne I'm able to subtly massage the vibrato/pitch/formant/whatever and make things fit together..

Melodyne kicks serious butt. I have Waves tune, Autotune, etc.. but once I got to Melo.. I have never stopped looking. I use it with Serato P-n-T Pro and Revoice Pro to handle anything that comes up. They just work every time and are good.

The best tuned voice is one that doesn't sound like it.. It sounds natural and flawed, but right... somehow just right.

And that, is my $.02. ;)

guitardom
07-25-2013, 10:51 PM
Did you notice any post-processing alignment problems with any version of Autotune?

Also still curious to hear from people familiar with the Waves, Melodyne, and now ReVoice if there is a quick and dirty mode in any of those like "automatic" in Autotune. I'm checking my post-RTAS options!

Thanks

No, i have never had any issues or problmss, but that could be workflow differences.

I never try to mix the tuned a the original "untuned" part. This is the only way you would hear a subtle shift. This could also be resolved easily with Revoice pro or vocalign.

Revoice does not have a "Auto" pitch function. Must be done manually though it has some great editing abilities once you get the flow of it. It does have the ability to match pitch though if you had a part that is in tune correctly. Or you could tune 1 track and be able to match the other tracks in both time and or pitch. Very powerful in this area.

Drew Mazurek
07-26-2013, 06:21 AM
Very powerful in this area.


Also in the price area!!! WOW!! :D

YYR123
07-26-2013, 07:53 AM
Also in the price area!!! WOW!! :D

$600 puts all ur George washington's in order!!!!

guitardom
07-26-2013, 08:13 AM
Also in the price area!!! WOW!! :D

No doubt there, But if you need to buy or upgrade Vocalign, it would make no sense to spring a few more bucks for this with a multitude of capabilities more than Vocalign. Check out its doubling capabilities....KILLER, havent even talked about that yet :cool:

albee1952
07-26-2013, 08:19 AM
With BGV's, you can SORT OF get away with what I call "quick and dirty" Melodyne. Draw a box around the entire part(on the Melodyne screen) and double-click to snap everything to the note grid. And, since its BGV's, you can use the vibrato adjust tool to remove some vibrato and you're done(maybe).

guitardom
07-26-2013, 08:35 AM
With BGV's, you can SORT OF get away with what I call "quick and dirty" Melodyne. Draw a box around the entire part(on the Melodyne screen) and double-click to snap everything to the note grid. And, since its BGV's, you can use the vibrato adjust tool to remove some vibrato and you're done(maybe).

What aspect of mixing do we do that doesn't end with a "eeehh maybe.." ;)

danander11
07-26-2013, 05:47 PM
With BGV's, you can SORT OF get away with what I call "quick and dirty" Melodyne. Draw a box around the entire part(on the Melodyne screen) and double-click to snap everything to the note grid. And, since its BGV's, you can use the vibrato adjust tool to remove some vibrato and you're done(maybe).

You may want to grab the pitch drift and give that a little tug as well.. just a skosh. ;)

Ray Lyon
07-26-2013, 06:38 PM
For mono tracks Waves Tune... for polyphonic pitch correction (piano, gtr, BGV's) Melodyne Editor... Melodyne can also save the day fixing mistakes on stereo orchestral tracks... esp. if the material is not too complex.

albee1952
07-28-2013, 04:59 PM
Basically, I use Autotune if I need "fast". I use Melodyne if I need "nice":o. Since we're still tossing this ball around, let me give the total picture on Melodyne(can't speak for TUNE as I haven't used it).

When you use Melodyne, the plugin "takes ownership" of the audio. What this means is, while you have the plugin inserted, you cannot do copy, paste, Audiosuite processing, Elastic Audio, etc. Once I am finished tweaking in Melodyne, I add a blank track above/below the tuned track(can be an AUDIO or an AUX track, both work fine). Drag the Melodyne plugin from the original track to the new(blank) track(trust me, the tuned audio goes with it). I set this new track's output to a bus, set the original track's input to that bus, create a new playlist and call it "LeadVox.Tnd')or whatever makes sense for you). Place the cursor before the first bit of audio(or at zero) and go into record(yep, this is a real-time process). When that's done, you have several options on what to do with the new track where you moved Melodyne. You can; delete it, Hide and Make Inactive, whatever makes sense to you. What you end up with is, your tuned audio, back on the track where it belongs, with the original(untuned) audio available on another playlist(classic CYA thinking:D). Now you can do any normal editing you like. For me, this extra work is a life-saver(and a machine saver as Melodyne can be a hungry friend):cool:

Jeroen.Kox
07-30-2013, 08:59 AM
Using melodyne but u have to watch out on vocals because i can sound bit autotuned, i use it most on violins, bass guitars etc...

podusa
07-30-2013, 01:59 PM
Using melodyne but u have to watch out on vocals because i can sound bit autotuned, i use it most on violins, bass guitars etc...

Sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, But:

It does not, unless you're pushing the correction too high. You just don't know how to use it properly if your vocals sound too "auto tuned".

Everyone uses Melodyne for the exact opposite reason. Because it's "invisible" used correctly.

nst7
07-30-2013, 02:31 PM
Actually Autotune can be pretty invisible as well, but most people don't use it correctly either.

Shan
07-31-2013, 02:20 PM
Waves Tune has been my "go-to" for years. This is the Waves plug-in I am really missing in PT11 while waiting for AAX.

Waves Tune on my end also. I do no more than move the note up or down slightly. I don't change the pitch curve of the singer, like so many others seem to do. At that point, all the pitch nuances that define that singer are no longer when one starts doing that. You can get away with a lot when not looking at pitch graphs of a soloed vocal and just using your ears in the context of the mix itself. Just automating the pitch of a regular pitch shift plug-in that maintains the formants will suffice enough in most cases.

Shane

Terry Wetzel
08-18-2013, 09:31 AM
Pardon my intrusion but. Why use pitch correction at all? I've been singing all my life and staying on pitch has never been an issue for me as long as the band is in tune. No brag, just fact. From what I'm hearing on a lot of recordings now days, it seems that just about every kid with a computer and basic skills on a guitar or keyboard also believes he or she is a singer! Technology is wonderful but why deceive yourself and your audience in to believing your capable of something that your not! If you can't sing on pitch, hire someone who knows how to sing to do the vocals! Just another example of lowering the bar!

Chingy
08-18-2013, 02:14 PM
It's less about lowering the bar and more about what the audience's ears have been tuned to thanks to years of it. Also, just because somebody isn't a flawless singer, should they be excluded from trying to communicate themselves through music and relying on some help?

upscaps
08-18-2013, 02:33 PM
Pardon my intrusion but. Why use pitch correction at all? I've been singing all my life and staying on pitch has never been an issue for me as long as the band is in tune. No brag, just fact. From what I'm hearing on a lot of recordings now days, it seems that just about every kid with a computer and basic skills on a guitar or keyboard also believes he or she is a singer! Technology is wonderful but why deceive yourself and your audience in to believing your capable of something that your not! If you can't sing on pitch, hire someone who knows how to sing to do the vocals! Just another example of lowering the bar!

People have been using smoke and mirrors to make records ever since the technology allowed them to. I interned for a multi-multi platinum mega production team when I was coming up and they spent days comping vocals w/ tape machines and fixing notes with the available technology. Nowadays some choose to use the pitch technology as an effect. So be it. No need to rag on the little kids...

Bob Olhsson
08-18-2013, 02:44 PM
Trust me, when a singer is really connecting emotionally, nobody ever notices intonation.

Too often the cost of making sure there's nothing wrong is winding up with nothing right!

It's what we call overproduction.

groundcontrol
08-19-2013, 05:34 AM
Trust me, when a singer is really connecting emotionally, nobody ever notices intonation.

Too often the cost of making sure there's nothing wrong is winding up with nothing right!

It's what we call overproduction.

So true! If you're noticing technical problems so much it's usually because the "performance" aspect (or the singer!) isn't right.

Btw, overproduction (and general reliance on technology over ideas) is the same discease that's killing Hollywood - especially noticing in block buster and action type movies.

MIKEROPHONICS
08-19-2013, 07:04 AM
can Bob Dylan sing? No - but I like to listen to him (before Autotune came out)

YYR123
08-19-2013, 04:25 PM
can Bob Dylan sing? No - but I like to listen to him (before Autotune came out)

Bob Dylan gets auto tuned ?

MIKEROPHONICS
08-20-2013, 01:48 AM
that's like asking if Dolly Parton sleeps on her back

YYR123
08-20-2013, 10:22 AM
that's like asking if Dolly Parton sleeps on her back

Dolly Parton sleeps on her back? What?

moonmusic
09-01-2013, 07:34 AM
I have the Auto-Tune Evo version which the graphics looks like the new one and I have Melodyne 3 but haven't used either one ALOT....Maybe a couple songs over the last few years so I'm definitely not a pro but here is my perceptions.....I ended up using both plugins on the lead vocal for different reasons....I think Melodyne sounds more natural and I like the graphics which I find easy to fix tuning, timing- It's easy to time stretch a note...It also has many more features but that is the main things I fix with this one....I think the range of tuning is much greater without sounding artificial and the same can be said for the time stretching....Once I fix those, I make a wav file of it and put it in a new track and use auto tune mainly to add vibrato, maybe change the voice formant-You can do this in Melodyne too but I find it easier and faster in Autotune....I haven't had any timing issues with Autotune as someone else mentioned so I would suggest a new version of it for sure.....I really need to dig into these more but it comes down to if I just want to add something on the fly, I use Autotune but if I really want to get surgical on things I use Melodyne......Hope that helps......moon

iamnightfall
09-22-2013, 07:55 PM
1. Melodyne is like surgery. You can simply do things with it that Autotune can only dream of. Its not difficult to learn and once you get the hang of it you can get decent results with it sounding natural. HOWEVER, it does mess with the audio. Some people say they don't hear artifacts but those same people also think that elastic audio is transparent too. I call it melodyne slime. It messes with the high end completely. I usually always tell if a singer was tuned in melodyne. And yes, I do use elastic audio, but I have to make a sacrifice ;) (melodyne is my go to for tuning strings and bass all day)

2. Autotune is great for automatic mode when you wanna be fast and lazy. Throw it on the bgvs, listen down and move on. Its graphic mode looks like nonsense to me compared to melodyne and EVO...well, it sounds horrible to me. However, when done right Autotune is crystal clear. Its only artifacty when it grabs a note and your retune speed is too fast. (cher, t-pain). I have actually ran Autotune in Automode using audiosuite OVER an already tuned vocal just for the pop "sheen". That also helps when a singer's voice is 95 percent there. Helps with shakiness too.

3. Wave Tune is what would happen if AT and Melo had a baby. Best of both worlds. Pitch correction is clear, its very powerful and easy to use...plain and simple. However, it sucks with bass...and I tune bass in almost every song I produce. Its quickly becoming my go to tuning application. I just audiosuite the vocal section by section..fast and easy.

my .02 cents

MixerGuy
09-29-2013, 12:12 AM
any other thoughts?

:-)

I have AutoTune but recently some clients have requested Melodyne....

:eek:

DMB13KOS
09-29-2013, 08:07 AM
any other thoughts?



Yes.

What happened to singing in tune like the old days?

groundcontrol
09-29-2013, 07:52 PM
This is folk's lore. Never *really* happened...

moonmusic
10-11-2013, 06:43 PM
Back then I always heard the phrase "Let's bury it in effects"...LOL....moon

groundcontrol
10-11-2013, 08:43 PM
Can't say I've never done this personnally...

;)

albee1952
10-13-2013, 08:50 PM
Your remember the old days...when the producer would hit the talkback and say, "that was crap...do it again". These days, the producer says,"that was crap....come on in and we'll FIX it":eek:

Shan
10-14-2013, 12:31 AM
...remember the old days...when the producer would hit the talkback and say, "that was crap...do it again"...

⇧⇧⇧I still use that plug-in! It's awesome!!⇧⇧⇧ :D :D

Shane

albee1952
10-14-2013, 12:44 PM
I think that's called the Reality-Check plugin. Its easy on the cpu, but stresses the performer a bit:D

Shan
10-14-2013, 03:45 PM
I think that's called the Reality-Check plugin. Its easy on the cpu, but stresses the performer a bit:D

It's also free!!...including all the upgrades! :D It's even future proof and 128-bit ready! :D :D

Shane

chrisdee
10-15-2013, 08:42 AM
I think that's called the Reality-Check plugin. Its easy on the cpu, but stresses the performer a bit:D

Will it work in PT11 or is it only Studer or Revox compatible?:D

albee1952
10-15-2013, 10:09 AM
Will it work in PT11 or is it only Studer or Revox compatible?:D
Compatible with all systems. Requires brass cahones to operate:p