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algy
06-12-2013, 02:36 PM
Good morning,

I record all my own bass lines both as DI and by Micing up an amp but my timing is pretty ordinary even with a click track.

Normally I try and find the tightest part of my playing and copy and paste where that is appropriate but it isn't always possible. I also try and record a number of times so that I can get the best possible timing.

Are there any tricks I can use to tighten my bass lines?

I run PT 10.

Thanks

Algy

Stig Eliassen
06-12-2013, 03:28 PM
Morning.

I use Beat Detective, Elastic Audio and standard audio editing (separate, move, crossfade). BD and EA, wonderful tools as they are, can't be trusted 100%. I always check every trigger and event marker to make sure BD or EA detected the material properly, and that too can take a long time.

Nothing will ever beat a good, solid performance. I'd say that the best "trick" is to play it right, but I certainly understand that it's sometimes difficult, and editing is needed.

My main point is that editing, in all its glory, can be much more time-comsuming than getting it right during recording.

Oh, and make an edit group that includes both the DI and the amp'ed track. That way you can edit them together, and won't mess up their relative timing/placement.

algy
06-12-2013, 06:45 PM
Thanks PT Lover,

I agree that a good performance is paramount.

I will need to look at beat detective as I have never used it as I thought it was a midi only process.

Algy

musicman691
06-13-2013, 05:07 AM
You don't want to quantize out or correct out every little bit of groove or feeling in your bass lines either. Unless you really need a locked-down to a grid bass line feel for whatever genre you're working in.

scrnplyr
06-13-2013, 11:40 AM
When digital recording first emerged as a viable technology I remember how many rock musicians in LA were thrilled that they could play mediocre tracks and have the engineer "ProTool it", which meant fix their musicianship issues w technology.

Around this time I heard a wise producer say to a musician that he should take the time he would spend fixing his mistakes with ProTools and spend it on practicing his guitar. While that sounded harsh to me at the time, I TOOK THAT ADVICE MYSELF!!

I still have to "protool" my playing at times, but I won't accept a track as "done' until it's at about 98% of what I want it to be prior to using ProTools.

Just my 2.:p

musicman691
06-13-2013, 01:15 PM
When digital recording first emerged as a viable technology I remember how many rock musicians in LA were thrilled that they could play mediocre tracks and have the engineer "ProTool it", which meant fix their musicianship issues w technology.

Around this time I heard a wise producer say to a musician that he should take the time he would spend fixing his mistakes with ProTools and spend it on practicing his guitar. While that sounded harsh to me at the time, I TOOK THAT ADVICE MYSELF!!

I still have to "protool" my playing at times, but I won't accept a track as "done' until it's at about 98% of what I want it to be prior to using ProTools.

Just my 2.:p
You're not the only one. I've wiped whole projects because I wasn't happy with my playing. It'd be fix one track and another would sound like crud so I'd just dump the whole thing and start over.

albee1952
06-13-2013, 04:11 PM
Elastic Audio is my savior, but with a few important caveats. First and foremost, have a backup plan as EA can induce some nasty digital artifacts. I duplicate the playlist and then, if the dupe is a single piece of audio, I cut it somewhere(anywhere). If the dupe is several clips, I consolidate. This creates a new audio file, so no matter how bad I(or EA) screw up the audio, I still have the original. I agree with the comment about quantizing, as it CAN suck the life out, so I usually just line the bass guitar up with the kick/snare hits(assuming they are good). I also use EA to line up BGV's to the lead vocal, as well as a lot of other small but important fixes where needed:D

algy
06-13-2013, 06:58 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone.

One further question, do I need to make a tempo map before using BD when using a manual tempo. BD says it doesn't work on manual tempo.

thanks

Algy

albee1952
06-13-2013, 07:31 PM
I forgot to add, time-align your mic track with your DI track and group them BEFORE using EA to tighten the tracks(you need to keep them phase-locked). Sadly, I can't help with BD as it has eluded me, despite several tutorial videos. I manually fix drums the old fashioned way(thanks to Russ at pro-tools-expert.com):rolleyes:

I cheat on bass a bit as I generally record the DI only, then AUX send to an AUX track with an amp sim plugin(usually Amplitube SVX, B-15 preset with a few tweaks).

scrnplyr
06-15-2013, 01:54 AM
I can't say that I'm not tempted to use EA but what I've found is that if I manually fix the drums, bass and basic guitar tracks early on I get a feel for the flow of the song that quick fixing doesn't generally allow. As we go forward w the tracking and mixing I'm so intimately aware of every part of the song that it saves considerable time in terms of referring back to particular sections.
I've also become very good at eyeballing timing problems as well as solutions -usually Slipping and gridding clips around as necessary doesn't slow us down and becomes creative instead of ennui producing.
Having said that, my fave musicians are still the ones who play it right so all I have to do is adjust the volume like a chubby studio monkey.

JFreak
06-15-2013, 02:26 AM
Nothing will ever beat a good, solid performance. I'd say that the best "trick" is to play it right, but I certainly understand that it's sometimes difficult, and editing is needed.

+1

And this is why some real guitar artists back in the day printed "recorded at 100% speed" to CD booklets. Not so great guitarists recorded tough guitar solos at 50% speed and later doubled the speed in Protools. So if you have tough time to get the bass line right, you could also try this tempo trick to "get it right" playing half speed and then double up to normal speed later.

Is it cheating if you play it and "get it right" without editing? Or the only editing being a tempo change? Tough to say. But is it any more cheating than editing the bass line to death? Hmm... :/

scrnplyr
06-15-2013, 10:19 AM
Half speed? Damn I wish I had known this when we were playing the sunset strip with all the other hair bands ripping off van Halen and the New York dolls. We were still recording to tape but you can slow a tape machine down too right?