D-Verb warble

[scottgreiner]

So at some point, the RTAS version of D-Verb became different from the TDM version, and some modulation was added (a la Lexicon) to the native version. This has carried over into the AAX Native version, and now that I no longer have a HD TDM rig, I'm stuck with this modulation warble in the D-Verb plugin.

Is there any way to shut this off? Reverb tails are drifting out of tune :(

[Shan]

The TDM version always had modulation in it's algorithm, which was never included in the RTAS version. In PT 8, they added the same modulation algorithm to the RTAS version so it would match the TDM version. Many protested this change including myself, as opening older sessions was now an issue. The added modulation also used up a lot more CPU, which made opening older sessions that were very large another issue. Unfortunately, it cant be turned off. For the sake of backwards compatibility, we should be able to turn off the modulation.

Since PT 8, the TDM and RTAS algorithms have been identical. If you're hearing the modulation emphasized more in AXX, then it's definitely a bug that should be reported and looked at.

Shane

[scottgreiner]

I just stopped using D-Verb when the modulation was added. Now I have a project where compatibility between several composers is important, and was considering using only stock Pro Tools plugins, but the modulation is making reverb tails out of tune.

I'll have to find another reverb plugin that everyone has on their rig...

Personally, I feel like they rendered D-Verb unusable. Ring-outs are out of tune :mad:

[dwaynedelario]

Hey Scott,

The chorusing has been an issue for me since moving to HDX. I found this article on the avid site... no idea if installing an older version of D-verb will help but check this out:

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/How_To/en207777

[scottgreiner]

Thanks - I had thought of using an old version, but it might be unstable and end up being more trouble than it's worth. Since it's just for monitoring purposes before all compositions are approved and ultimately mixed on the same rig, We'll just use something else.:rolleyes:

It's funny, I've used Pro Tools since the very beginning, and back when D-Verb was all there was in TDM land, I don't remember hearing this pitch issue at all. I wish they would give us a button to shut it off. What good is an out of tune reverb?

(actually, it sounds nice within a track, but the ring-out is what's bothersome)

[jahtao]

Ah! Thought I was going crazy. I've only noticed D Verb tails being a bit pitchy since going from TDM7.4 to HDX10. Not welcome and not seeing the point to be honest. Can you turn it off or what???

[jahtao]

Looks like its not present in Church and Hall algorithms FYI

[LSD-Studio]

Sorry for the necro bump, but I though maybe someone found a solution for this?
I’m about to make the switch from HD TDM to HD native and now my go to snare reverb (dverb Medium room) sounds like garbage since the formerly smooth tail is now weird and warbly...the reverb actually sounds entirely different in its native version

To whoever said they sound the same since pt8:
Here are two clips with the same settings, one is tdm version, the other one native (I’ve also compared rtas in pt10 and aax in pt2018 which sound identical to each other).

http://www.lasselammert.com/sonstiges/DSP-Native.zip

[Sardi]

There is no solution. Certain algorithms have added modulation to the tails. It can’t be disabled.

Honestly, I’d change your reverb. There are countless FAR better reverbs than D-Verb. Like light years better. Some of them ridiculously cheap. Some even free!

Considering there’s going to be a ton of Black Friday sales in a few weeks, I’d do some research and demo a few plugins and then pull the trigger at the end of the month.


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[LSD-Studio]

Well, “better” is not an objective term.
I’ve got revived an relab480 any many more fantastic reverbs that I live and that sound “better”.
But this almost cheap sounding graininess of d-verb is perfect for metal snare drums, I have not found a single one that does the same thing for me, it’s become a massive part of my “signature” drum sound.
I would never use it for anything else since I got “better” sounding reverbs, but this one thing it does on snares is something that no other reverb can do for me. With today’s processing power it really shouldn’t be a problem for avid to fix this, a lot of people are still using d-verb (in fact many of my colleagues are using it for that very same reason$.

[mgoorevich]

Well, “better” is not an objective term.
I’ve got revived an relab480 any many more fantastic reverbs that I live and that sound “better”.
But this almost cheap sounding graininess of d-verb is perfect for metal snare drums, I have not found a single one that does the same thing for me, it’s become a massive part of my “signature” drum sound.
I would never use it for anything else since I got “better” sounding reverbs, but this one thing it does on snares is something that no other reverb can do for me. With today’s processing power it really shouldn’t be a problem for avid to fix this, a lot of people are still using d-verb (in fact many of my colleagues are using it for that very same reason$.

Avid will not fix it, don't hope for it...
While I completely understand your nostalgia for d-verb, at the end its just the matter of "home work". You will find a modern replacement of d-verb if you simply open yourself to trying all these new plugins...
Try Exponential Audio, some of their plugins have built in EQ, Distortion and Dynamics algorithms to make it sound right.

[Sardi]

Well, “better” is not an objective term.

I’ve got revived an relab480 any many more fantastic reverbs that I live and that sound “better”.

But this almost cheap sounding graininess of d-verb is perfect for metal snare drums, I have not found a single one that does the same thing for me, it’s become a massive part of my “signature” drum sound.

I would never use it for anything else since I got “better” sounding reverbs, but this one thing it does on snares is something that no other reverb can do for me. With today’s processing power it really shouldn’t be a problem for avid to fix this, a lot of people are still using d-verb (in fact many of my colleagues are using it for that very same reason$.



It has nothing to do with processing power. The modulation was added in later versions. If anything, the additional modulation would require more CPU power.

If you really can’t do away wth that grainy sound, here’s a suggestion. Go back to the old version if you can and create an IR of that setting that you like and load it up in any convolution plugin. Done!

If you can’t load the old version that doesn’t have the modulation which, from memory, was the RTAS version, then I’m sure you can ask one of your colleagues to do it for you.


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[LSD-Studio]

That’s a great idea actually, thanks!

[Sardi]

Indeed it is.

Done it for myself and others numerous times.


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[LSD-Studio]

Damn, used the sweep Waves supplied and created an IR for IR-1 according to their guide.
still doesn't sound the same (initial attack, high end and stereo spread seems off)....
well, guess I'll just have to say good bye to dVerb then.
thanks anyway!

[Sardi]

Damn, used the sweep Waves supplied and created an IR for IR-1 according to their guide.

still doesn't sound the same (initial attack, high end and stereo spread seems off)....

well, guess I'll just have to say good bye to dVerb then.

thanks anyway!



Well I just tried it using the Plate setting as that doesn’t have any modulation. Sounds pretty damn close to the D-Verb version to me.

I use Voxengo’s deconvolution plugin with a 6 second sine sweep. The IR reverb needs to be increased by a couple of dB, but that’s to be expected. Aside from that, I think it’s pretty much the same and in the context of a mix, I’d say virtually indistinguishable.

Is this the first time you’ve created an IR? Perhaps you’ve done something wrong along the way?


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[LSD-Studio]

Nah, have done it a couple of times.
But this one was particularly easy since I literally just used the sweep that waves supplied specifically for this purpose.
Run it through the reverb and print the wav.
Then literally just import wav into IR-1, that’s it, IR-1 is doing the deconvolution process etc for you.
Literally fool proof, zero chance to fck something up.

[Sardi]

Well something is up, as the process works fine for me.

If that D-Verb setting means that much to you, I’d investigate further and perhaps try a different piece of sw for the deconvolution process.


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[midnightrambler]

Just found this thread and wanted to add my 2p.

I've hated the modulation in D-Verb since I switched over to HD Native from TDM. I've just tried convoluting using the IR1 and I think I've got it to sound pretty damn close - at least, for my needs. The overall output level is a bit out compared to the D-Verb so that needs adjusting manually, but otherwise pretty happy.

NB No point people putting "just use another reverb". I have a bazillion fancy reverbs, most of which I've found to be completely useless in the context of a mix. The D-Verb does its own thing and - depending on context, of course - what it does works pretty well.