Good news Autotune will be DSP

[Neil Pickles]

I emailed Antares about their latest upgrade offer along the lines of.

"I want to upgrade as I have an old version but I am waiting for DSP will you be doing it?"

The reply was not open to interpretation

"AAX will be dsp."

They didn't have an ETA but that is very reassuring. I don't use it often but it's an essential bit of kit for when you DO need it. :cool:

[TOM@METRO]

Autotune AAX/DSP running in real time would be very good news.

[audioluche]

Nice.
This is really good news.

Thanks for sharing

[Tobias Eichelberg]

Just out of curiosity, where would you use the DSP version of Auto-Tune 7 since it has a latency of more than 2000 samples - hardly usable for recording sessions that way?

[Craig F]

you can not track through any "tuning" plug

it is best used in the comp/edit stage and maybe a little in the final mix

[francois]

you can not track through any "tuning" plug

it is best used in the comp/edit stage and maybe a little in the final mix

Yes you can , I use autotune to track , it's been requested a lot since the
T-pain hits

[upscaps]

you can not track through any "tuning" plug

it is best used in the comp/edit stage and maybe a little in the final mix

Not true. Artists prefer to track thru the autotune plugin because they can bend the effect in ways that cannot be done after the fact. This has been going on since I was an intern at old sony studios in nyc.

[nerd513]

i track thru auto tune 7 TDM all the time there is no latency so he must be confused somewhere along the line

[Tobias Eichelberg]

i track thru auto tune 7 TDM all the time there is no latency so he must be confused somewhere along the line

Ah, I see - so Auto-Tune 7 TDM does not introduce the 2000 samples processing delay? The RTAS version does that. EVO (Auto-Tune 6) started to introduce a processing delay (1024 samples or so) in the RTAS version.

[nerd513]

no latency in TDM... auto tune did come out with auto tune live wich is a very good alternative for native systems we have it on an HD native system and u can use it with very little latency... auto tune 7 on a HDnative sytem will give u quit a bit of latency... i think alot of developers will come out with "live" versions of their native plug ins in the future if they do not develop DSP versions

[francois]

Ah, I see - so Auto-Tune 7 TDM does not introduce the 2000 samples processing delay? The RTAS version does that. EVO (Auto-Tune 6) started to introduce a processing delay (1024 samples or so) in the RTAS version.

That's why we paying the big bucks for TDM and now AAX DSP :o

[Melvin90]

autotune 5 i can track thru it fine with no noticeable latency on protools 10

[nst7]

That is correct about v.5, but later versions added more inherent latency as more features were added along witth more natural sound quality.

[P,B,S]

i track thru auto tune 7 TDM all the time there is no latency so he must be confused somewhere along the line

I think he just ment the delay compinsation that happens with alot of plugs

[Peterjk]

I am looking through the Antares Website, and can't find any information or mention of a AAX DSP version?

Am I not looking hard enough, or what's the deal?


Peter

[WorldStudios]

I asked this week and they said there is no dsp version soon, but that they're planning a solution for low latency use for owners of Tdm licenses, whatever that means. We should keep our eyes on their site for an announcement about this soon. This was a reply to my suggestion that they give us Tdm license owners on hdx a copy of auto tune live. :)

[BEN6732]

I asked this week and they said there is no dsp version soon, but that they're planning a solution for low latency use for owners of Tdm licenses, whatever that means. We should keep our eyes on their site for an announcement about this soon. This was a reply to my suggestion that they give us Tdm license owners on hdx a copy of auto tune live. :)

Does anyone have an accurate figure of the latency when using Auto-Tune Live on an HDX system? I'm going to have some very disappointed clients when they try to track hyper-tuned vocals live through AT7 AAX Native and get 2000 samples of latency. :( Is Auto-Tune Live the solution??

[nst7]

Autotune Live is the best current solution.

[Southsidemusic]

AT Live works great here and the latency produced is minimal compared to other tune plugins but best way is to demo Live and see what you can live with :-)

Chris

[Hanswurstlsepp]

Hi,

has someone got any new infos bout Autotune 7 AAX DSP ?
I checked their website but couldn't find no info at all.

[AURORA4DTH]

Anyone heard anything???? I also get requests once a week to track with auto tune. before upgrading to PT 11 i used my auto tune all the time with the hip hop guys. Some of them cant even do a part unless they hear it on their voice when they do it. Sad, yes i know but i do my best to accommodate them.

[TOM@METRO]

Ha! I saw this old thread revived and thought something good may have happened. I guess not.

[BEN6732]

Our studio picked up AutoTune 7 TDM in hopes that it would become AAX DSP eventually. Seeing as that isn't happening any time soon, we contacted Antares about getting a discount on AT Live. They gave us a code to get it for $99. AT Live works well and has little latency.

[Paul B.]

Autotune AAX Live is a joke like anything AAX Native. I've been using pro tools TDM ofr over 10 years recording A list artist and moved on to PT 11 HDX.
WHAT A MISTAKE!!!!
I can't record a session live anymore the way I used to.
LATENCY is a JOKE.
The whole HDX thing is such a joke.
I'm surprised more people aren't up in arms. Then again I'm guessing people haven't updated yet.
That'll teach me to trust AVID.

[WernerF]

I hear ya. I have an HDX system that I never use. It's gathering dust in a closet. I use my HD 6 TDM system running Pro Tools 10 in order to get work done and earn my livelihood. No way that that would work without enough DSP plugins being available for HDX. The ones that are presently available mostly are not my cup of tea. The lack of anything from Soundtoys for one is just the starting point of the present list of lacking nessecary AAX tools.

[Paul B.]

By the way, HDX will never work.
If all plugins were to go DSP then we wouldn't have enough DSP power with the HDX cards. Avid is full of crap when they say HDX is more powerfull than TDM.
YEah, if you use all your plugins in Native but we don't want that!!!

[mike fennel]

i was looking for any news about AT DSP and saw these comments about PT 11 HDX.

im going to disagree, and provide some valid info for those who care.

i was a long time user of TDM. i made the switch at the very beginning of PT10 HDX. i had to do this as i was buying a new system.

i to was disappointed about the lack of DSP plugs. over the past 2 years i gathered all the plugs for Native 64 bit AAX and DSP. i stayed with PT10 as i did not feel comfortable with 11.
until one day i was doing a huge mix and found that 10 was having some strange timing / latency issues. it was directly connected to the number and types of plugs being used and i was unable to mix this session the way i wanted.

out of curiosity i open the session in PT11 and boom it was tight. not only tight but sounded amazing. i quickly got a few native plug upgrades so i could complete my huge list of native AAX 64bit plugs.
i had everything covered and wow i cant believe how good it sounds.

i had my other engineers confirm this and its was verified that PT11 does sound better.....and the mixes are tighter with latency.
i can do huge mixes with tons of hungry plugs without worry of plug in timing issues.

as far as tracking with AT, no problem. although i cant put it on a record track i can put it on aux tracks and route it to a record track or from the record track monitor it on an aux track. it may be a little bit more effort but its well worth the trade off.

i keep the latency down but just lowering my H/W buffer as much as possible. i get no complaints.

i hope some day AT and waves will have a DSP version but until then im really blown away by the sound of my mixes and so are my clients....

cheers,
mike fennel
head engineer Universal Music Pub Group.

[mike fennel]

By the way, HDX will never work.
If all plugins were to go DSP then we wouldn't have enough DSP power with the HDX cards. Avid is full of crap when they say HDX is more powerfull than TDM.
YEah, if you use all your plugins in Native but we don't want that!!!

this statement is BS as one HDX card is as powerful as 3 or 4 core or accel cards....
sorry HDX can handle the DSP....thats not the issue..

mike

[nst7]

i was looking for any news about AT DSP and saw these comments about PT 11 HDX.

im going to disagree, and provide some valid info for those who care.

i was a long time user of TDM. i made the switch at the very beginning of PT10 HDX. i had to do this as i was buying a new system.

i to was disappointed about the lack of DSP plugs. over the past 2 years i gathered all the plugs for Native 64 bit AAX and DSP. i stayed with PT10 as i did not feel comfortable with 11.
until one day i was doing a huge mix and found that 10 was having some strange timing / latency issues. it was directly connected to the number and types of plugs being used and i was unable to mix this session the way i wanted.

out of curiosity i open the session in PT11 and boom it was tight. not only tight but sounded amazing. i quickly got a few native plug upgrades so i could complete my huge list of native AAX 64bit plugs.
i had everything covered and wow i cant believe how good it sounds.

i had my other engineers confirm this and its was verified that PT11 does sound better.....and the mixes are tighter with latency.
i can do huge mixes with tons of hungry plugs without worry of plug in timing issues.

as far as tracking with AT, no problem. although i cant put it on a record track i can put it on aux tracks and route it to a record track or from the record track monitor it on an aux track. it may be a little bit more effort but its well worth the trade off.

i keep the latency down but just lowering my H/W buffer as much as possible. i get no complaints.

i hope some day AT and waves will have a DSP version but until then im really blown away by the sound of my mixes and so are my clients....

cheers,
mike fennel
head engineer Universal Music Pub Group.


Good to hear about all this.

You may already be aware of this, but Autotune Live is a specific plugin that is designed for low latency tracking like you're doing. You may find it more convenient. For the time being, it looks like that is their answer to this, as there seems to be no more news about them ever doing AAX-DSP.

[WernerF]

this statement is BS as one HDX card is as powerful as 3 or 4 core or accel cards....
sorry HDX can handle the DSP....thats not the issue..

mike

I don't know what you're working on but if you need to track a record and mix as you go it is not possible with an HDX system. There is no way that you can do a multiple track punch into a pretty much fully mixed track that is running tons of Native plugins. The session will not run at a small enough buffer setting, in order to have low enough latency, without coming to a grinding halt. I know this because I have both an HDX system and a TDM system. I can only use the HD 6 TDM system to earn my livelihood.

[Mike496]

Could you do it all Native (HD Native, Vanilla PT, or some other native DAW? I think it can work... Just not with Native. The problem is the native plugins. Call and email your favorite must plugin developers and tell them to get on board, you can't mix and track multiple ins as you go with their native solutions.

[WernerF]

There is no way that you can do any of this with a Native system. Unfortunately, the problem is Native Plugins. They are too taxing on the CPU to be run in large numbers at a low enough buffer setting to have a low enough latency experience. That is simply the reality of the present moment. Just an aside, if you have a preference for HEAT you can't use that on a Native system either.

[Mike496]

WernerF I agree. You can probably get by when tracking vocals only and using a line split for analog cue.
With coding for only native processing developers can get really greedy when it comes to processing consumption. Some developers are good with system resources, but others are off the charts.

I continue to email my favorite developers (even if they've stated they're not doing AAX DSP or remain on the fences) and remind them that I would like viable AAX DSP development of the tools that I need/like.
Mixing and light IO tracking only sessions can get way with native and PT 11 but for higher IO counts and mixing on the fly DSP is very important.

[mike fennel]

I don't know what you're working on but if you need to track a record and mix as you go it is not possible with an HDX system. There is no way that you can do a multiple track punch into a pretty much fully mixed track that is running tons of Native plugins. The session will not run at a small enough buffer setting, in order to have low enough latency, without coming to a grinding halt. I know this because I have both an HDX system and a TDM system. I can only use the HD 6 TDM system to earn my livelihood.

you can track with a full mix...
one way is just sub mix it and just everything off and track to the sub mix.
you can get lo latency or even zero latency on record tracks as long as you dont bus them or and native plugs to that track. just send them out of any hdx IO output. you will see the latency go to zero....this said ive had good luck with this but be warned you must turn off master plugs.
im still experimenting with this so far its been good.

[WernerF]

you can track with a full mix...
one way is just sub mix it and just everything off and track to the sub mix.
you can get lo latency or even zero latency on record tracks as long as you dont bus them or and native plugs to that track. just send them out of any hdx IO output. you will see the latency go to zero....this said ive had good luck with this but be warned you must turn off master plugs.
im still experimenting with this so far its been good.

Thanks for the suggestion Mike but making a sub mix is way too much of a jumping through hoops workaround. What it comes down too is making a compromise just to be able to use your system. Also, not to mention, there is no way to make adjustments to your mix on the fly if it's printed to a sub mix. Way too big of a compromise.

[Emcha_audio]

I guess the thousands of people using a native daw each day, with mixes that are far along, and doing dubs with plugins on the chain like comp, eq, autotune on low latency mode (autotune 8), and a small delay on an aux to give a feeling of depth (or reverb) all must be delusional... Even more so than since pt 11 came out you got a dual buffer, the input buffer always set at the lowest value possible by the system that only affects tracks that are record armed enabled, and the playback buffer to which you can decide where to set it yourself... yep all delusional..

[Paul B.]

I guess the thousands of people using a native daw each day, with mixes that are far along, and doing dubs with plugins on the chain like comp, eq, autotune on low latency mode (autotune 8), and a small delay on an aux to give a feeling of depth (or reverb) all must be delusional... Even more so than since pt 11 came out you got a dual buffer, the input buffer always set at the lowest value possible by the system that only affects tracks that are record armed enabled, and the playback buffer to which you can decide where to set it yourself... yep all delusional..

Man, I'm sorry to say but if you don't encounter what I am experiencing every day which is what WernerF just described then you are not mixing, you are just playing with 2 or 3 plugins.

My work around has been to sub mix down to 2 tracks then turn everyone off, turn off the Delay comp, change buffer to 128, then record. If artist asks me to bring the snare down a bit, my answer is NOPE, sorry, can't do. He then asks why and I answer because AVID engineers didn't know what the hell they were doing.
I'm still dealing with their tech support who I'm guessing are just acting as if they are trying to fix a problem they know exists.
I've given up on it.

On a side note, it's funny to read the first post of this thread. Auto Tune AAX DSP for Sure... yeah right.

[WernerF]

Hey Paul, I'm so glad that someone who makes records in the real record making world has come on here to shed some extra light on the reality of the difficulty of having a pro workflow in the world of Native systems. It's really a shame that we have been pretty much left in the dust because of the false perception that cheaper Native systems can get the job done. I would love for that to be true. The painful reality is that if you put a Native system to a real world record making test you will find out that it is just simply too much of a compromise. Unfortunately, the majority rules the marketplace and everyone wants to save as much cash as possible and the fact that the working music pro has always been in the minority does not bode well for any of this to change.

[guitardom]

Hey Paul, I'm so glad that someone who makes records in the real record making world has come on here to shed some extra light on the reality of the difficulty of having a pro workflow in the world of Native systems. It's really a shame that we have been pretty much left in the dust because of the false perception that cheaper Native systems can get the job done. I would love for that to be true. The painful reality is that if you put a Native system to a real world record making test you will find out that it is just simply too much of a compromise. Unfortunately, the majority rules the marketplace and everyone wants to save as much cash as possible and the fact that the working music pro has always been in the minority does not bode well for any of this to change.

To complicate things, Native plugins on an HDX system will also always have more latency than Native plugins on a Native system. When talking Native systems though, they are dependent on the system power. A 20 core system is going to have light years more power than what a 6-12 core system and an HDX card. There is far to many variables anymore to say a Native system cannot work.

[WernerF]

Can you overdub through plugins, without latency, onto a pretty much fully mixed 100+ track session? Can you use HEAT instead of having to put the Slate stuff on every track which, by the way, sounds totally different than HEAT? Can you put a limiter plugin on the master buss during your entire recording process, in order to hear your mix the way you want it to sound without incurring latency?

[maunaloa]

Werner, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but are you tracking and mixing 100-count sessions on HD Native? Sounds like you need more MIPS. TMK, the HD Native PCIe board is only handling I/O. You should consider a dual Xeon E5-2699 on an ASUS Z10PE-D8 WS mobo build. That would give you 36 cores and 72 threads.

http://www.asus.com/us/Commercial_Servers_Workstations/Z10PED8_WS/

[Wall2Wall]

word is Autotune for UA will be out next week. You can track with it if using an Apollo. Glad I have one. :D

I don't think there will ever be autotune for aax-dsp.

[WernerF]

Werner, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but are you tracking and mixing 100-count sessions on HD Native? Sounds like you need more MIPS. TMK, the HD Native PCIe board is only handling I/O. You should consider a dual Xeon E5-2699 on an ASUS Z10PE-D8 WS mobo build. That would give you 36 cores and 72 threads.

http://www.asus.com/us/Commercial_Servers_Workstations/Z10PED8_WS/

Maunalo, thanks for the suggestion. I am, however, working on an HD 6 TDM system. I can do all of the things that I was asking about. My point was that you can't do it on a Native system. I have an HDX system as well that I don't use because of the lack of DSP plugins. My point is that, basically, the Avid state of affairs is quite not good at the moment for record making pro's.

[maunaloa]

Werner, now I understand your point better. Although plugin wrappers like Bluecat's products have eased the transition to AAX, it's still a frustrating transition. From Avid's POV, with EOL on the fixed point DSPs, the attraction of having plugins sound the same on various PT systems, and the prospect of maintaining RTAS, TDM, and AAX, the transition, while disruptive, was inevitable. It's still not as bad as hard drives (ready for M.2?) and digital video (8K is on the way).

[Wall2Wall]

I emailed Antares about their latest upgrade offer along the lines of.

"I want to upgrade as I have an old version but I am waiting for DSP will you be doing it?"

The reply was not open to interpretation

"AAX will be dsp."

They didn't have an ETA but that is very reassuring. I don't use it often but it's an essential bit of kit for when you DO need it. :cool:

Still waiting....

Antares just killed their UAD2/Apollo version for the second time. So there is no dsp tuning plugin other than going back to TDM for autotune TDM. Avid is dropping the ball by doing bland Pro compressors and expanders when other stuff for HDX is needed much more than that.

[Rajsmoove]

I had a decent email convo with Antares a couple weeks ago and laid out the need for AAX DSP of AT Live. They seemed very receptive.

[Wall2Wall]

I had a decent email convo with Antares a couple weeks ago and laid out the need for AAX DSP of AT Live. They seemed very receptive.

Always good to talk to the younger generation. My nephew came by the studio last night. I asked him what are you guys using because they sometimes track thru Auto-tune in Logic and Live. Turns out they use hardware inserted between the mic chain and Apollo. TC-Helicon Voicelive Play or a TC-Helicon C1. Both have "Hardtune" effect. You can set the key and amount of effect. He left me his Voiceplay Live. I'm going to give it a test run later on.

[Rajsmoove]

Most people that I know who like to record thru auto tune usually don't have issues with latency except in the extreme. They didn't come from an analog world. Their first experiences recording were on native systems with latency which makes them used to it. I hate recording thru AT just because I like to hear what's really going on, and I would think as a singer if you can't hear where your pitch really is you can't get on the note where you need to be. But to each their own.

i want DSP because when dealing with sessions with lots of stacks and backgrounds, I end up with lots of instances of AT and that puts a heavy load on the comp while I have 15 chips sitting empty on my HDX card. Recording thru it is a second thought for me, but at a 64 buffer the latency isn't unmanageable for my clients.

[TOM@METRO]

i want DSP because when dealing with sessions with lots of stacks and backgrounds, I end up with lots of instances of AT and that puts a heavy load on the comp while I have 15 chips sitting empty on my HDX card. Recording thru it is a second thought for me, but at a 64 buffer the latency isn't unmanageable for my clients.

When Track Freeze hits, your issues with this should be solved.

[YYR123]

Still waiting....

Antares just killed their UAD2/Apollo version for the second time. .


I can't believe these looser!!! And according to UA the ball had been in their court for some time.....

[Rajsmoove]

When Track Freeze hits, your issues with this should be solved.

TRUE