20-20 Hindsight?

[Bill Denton]

Maybe it's just my aged brain failing me, but...

Was there this much push-back on price when the PT 9 upgrades came out?

Sure, there were a few people who would b*tch about the price if Avid were paying them $20 to take it, but I just really don't remember too many users complaining about price.

So, is it just me, or has Avid really stepped in it on the PT 10 upgrade pricing?

[Dism]

Maybe it's just my aged brain failing me, but...

Was there this much push-back on price when the PT 9 upgrades came out?


Maybe not as much... but I do recall a few threads with many many pages complaining about the price.



So, is it just me, or has Avid really stepped in it on the PT 10 upgrade pricing?

For HD users (specifically TDM), no doubt.

I don't see the standard PT9-10 $300 price as unreasonable, though.

[Dnnspv]

I'll concede that 300 USD, for guys like me, will be recouped several times over with one job. That should not negate that (depending on PT 11's release), between PT 9 and 11, Avid possibly getting $900 from a native customer for a software upgrade in just two years. I won't even mention the HD prices.

Why penalize the customer who already bought the product? Surely charging so much for upgrades should not justify keeping the product relevant, which should happen anyway. Why not work harder to bring in new customers instead of sticking it to loyal customers, where in many cases some have spent a lot of money on PT and other Avid products.

I simply hope via feedback email, and maybe getting wind of the buzz from concerns on the most popular PT forum, that Avid will get some indication of how flawed their upgrade pricing is.

[Dism]

Remember this one?

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=285643

and...

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=285451


don't forget...

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=285571


The dust will settle... maybe Avid with throw the TDM users a bone... but eventually it will be business as usual again around here.

[JayNocturn]

$300 is too high for someone who already purchased PT9 considering what they are getting.

If the new RAM features applied to PT10 then $300 would be fine.

Instead when upgrading from PT9 - PT10 we are paying for lots of benefits what will come with PT11 or 12 that we cant use now (eg things that are moving towards 64 bit such as the new plug in format). I bet that less than 20% of (non HD) pro tools registered users will upgrade to PT10. Its a shame, that Avid doesnt aim for 80% of registered users purchasing the upgrade at a cheaper price to get the same amount of revenue. This would mean that there would be less people asking for bug fixes for old versions and Avid could get away with less support for old versions.

Avid would also benefit a lot more from word of mouth promo. Meaning they could even spend less on advertising! (I'm sure everyone has seen people complaining about price on every facebook post Avid has done trying to promote PT10!!!!).

[Dnnspv]

The dust will settle... maybe Avid with throw the TDM users a bone... but eventually it will be business as usual again around here.

Which, if you think about it, is kind of sad. The dust settles because you have to know PT in many professional settings, because PT got that edge years ago for something solid that works for high-end studios. Studios invested hundreds of thousands on PT HD; that's one elephant that is not leaving the room.

So hey, the high-end post and recording facilities can afford the upgrade if it was $10,000, so let's use them as the model for the entire base because they aren't worried about any upgrade pricing. Thus, the simple clear issue of over priced upgrades, on all levels, are forgotten and yes the dust settles.

[bashville]

Why penalize the customer who already bought the product? Surely charging so much for upgrades should not justify keeping the product relevant, which should happen anyway. Why not work harder to bring in new customers instead of sticking it to loyal customers, where in many cases some have spent a lot of money on PT and other Avid products.



Sometimes I think the ones who are the biggest players (Avid and Waves) have it the hardest in terms of keeping money coming in to pay for general R&D, support, keeping the lights on, etc. I think anybody who is going to use this stuff probably already has a version of it, and they're always treading the line between having people feel they still have value in what they already purchased, and trying to charge a fair price for the new features.

My thought is that ProTools might be so ubiquitous now that it becomes more difficult to find people who don't have it, if they have any interest in DAW's.

What I wish they were better at was laying out the facts more clearly when a new version is released. There is a strong intimation in the initial PT10 rollout that by PT11 none of the gear or plugs you currently own will work. Those of us who've had the patience to pick through the facts or read between the lines have been able to find that if you can't afford a newer I/O box, the blue series boxes may not be supported, but there's a good chance they will work, even though your TDM cards will not. (I'm basing this on the adapter that comes with HD Native card that connects the mini-connector with the standard older clip-on thingy on the Blue interfaces).

So in which case there should certainly be some pricing for the new cards by themselves, as well as some saner voices advising what a current TDM user on a budget could do to move forward gradually. Because it makes some of us start thinking maybe we don't need this, which I don't think Avid wants in the long run.

I wish there was a calmer voice at Avid giving us good advice on what we can plan on, vs. ramming new product down our throats.

[Dism]

I wish there was a calmer voice at Avid giving us good advice on what we can plan on, vs. ramming new product down our throats.

I can definitely agree with that.

Avid needs a customer relations expert or something to that extent. Someone who knows how to talk to people without sounding like they're just trying to sell you.

[WernerF]

It is quite naive to assume that the high end facilities will automatically decide to pony up the absurdly high amount of money for the present HD upgrade. There is absolutely no difference between the mid level facilities shrinking budgets and the high end facilities shrinking budgets. A shrinking budget is a shrinking budget by any other name. I would submit that it's more relevant to consider the shrinking brain trust in the Avid boardroom.

[Dnnspv]

Sometimes I think the ones who are the biggest players (Avid and Waves) have it the hardest in terms of keeping money coming in to pay for general R&D, support, keeping the lights on, etc. I think anybody who is going to use this stuff probably already has a version of it, and they're always treading the line between having people feel they still have value in what they already purchased, and trying to charge a fair price for the new features.

My thought is that ProTools might be so ubiquitous now that it becomes more difficult to find people who don't have it, if they have any interest in DAW's.

What I wish they were better at was laying out the facts more clearly when a new version is released. There is a strong intimation in the initial PT10 rollout that by PT11 none of the gear or plugs you currently own will work. Those of us who've had the patience to pick through the facts or read between the lines have been able to find that if you can't afford a newer I/O box, the blue series boxes may not be supported, but there's a good chance they will work, even though your TDM cards will not. (I'm basing this on the adapter that comes with HD Native card that connects the mini-connector with the standard older clip-on thingy on the Blue interfaces).

So in which case there should certainly be some pricing for the new cards by themselves, as well as some saner voices advising what a current TDM user on a budget could do to move forward gradually. Because it makes some of us start thinking maybe we don't need this, which I don't think Avid wants in the long run.

I wish there was a calmer voice at Avid giving us good advice on what we can plan on, vs. ramming new product down our throats.

I agree.

I don't think any realistic person expects to get any kind of DAW software upgrade for under $100. I could have not upgraded to 9, and just a year later bought a brand new box of PT 10, saving only $50 if I bought it before December 31 (according to Sweetwater's website). So Avid is charging a loyal customer near the full price of PT, but did it via just two upgrades.

Not sure what kind of voice can smooth that over.

[Dnnspv]

It is quite naive to assume that the high end facilities will automatically decide to pony up the absurdly high amount of money for the present HD upgrade. There is absolutely no difference between the mid level facilities shrinking budgets and the high end facilities shrinking budgets. A shrinking budget is a shrinking budget by any other name. I would submit that it's more relevant to consider the shrinking brain trust in the Avid boardroom.

I assume you are referring to me because I said it. Fair enough given how I worded the post.

However, I don't see any PT native home studios on Avid's website smiling from ear to ear over PT 10. Of course some high-end studios have shrinking budgets, but not all and some of those don't think twice about validating Avid's upgrade model. To my main point, perhaps it is naive to think that the high-end facilities don't drive PT's model for the entire base. I think that, along with Avid's boardroom, affects the upgrade model.

[WernerF]

Agreed, but unfortunately it doesn't really matter what the motivation is for the ill conceived boardroom thinking. It still has the potential to drag all of us P Tools investors down the drain with them if they tank the company that provides us with the tools that we use every day in our chosen profession.

[spenner]

I could have not upgraded to 9, and just a year later bought a brand new box of PT 10, saving only $50 if I bought it before December 31 (according to Sweetwater's website). So Avid is charging a loyal customer near the full price of PT, but did it via just two upgrades.

Not sure what kind of voice can smooth that over.

Interesting.

I don't care for the upgrade pricing either and hope that the same customer concerns being addressed here are also addressed to Avid via customer feedback surveys and email.