What is a Pre-Amp

[Wardove04]

I apologize if I sound like an elementary school student; but If I don't ask, then I won't ever know the answer. My question is: What is a preamp? I've read in these forums, that without a good preamp its hard to get a good representation of vocals. Are these used on just vocals or instruments as well.

Furthermore, I record rock, Hip-Hop, R&B, (almost anything really) music using an Mbox, how would I incorporate this into my set-up?

In conclusion, I want to Thank everyone in these forums for shedding light on me. I have learned so much, in such little time; just from reading through these forums. ;)

[scar97]

an electronic amplifier used to improve the signal-to-noise ratio of an electronic device. It boosts a low-level signal to an intermediate level before it is transmitted to the main amplifier

[DonaldM]

Because microphones by themselves don't have any power boost to the input signal (ie, the vocalist), you need some way to get a good, clean signal into your recording device, such as your DAW. While you could go directly into your DAW through the mic input on your MBox, the signal would tend to be weak, and if you try to boost it using the software components inside Pro Tools, it could sound hissy and noisy. Solution? Some kind of hardware preamp. You plug your mic into that and then route the signal from the preamp to the input to Pro Tools. Like everything else in audio recording, preamps come in all sizes and colors, so to speak, meaning some really are better than others. Sometimes, a good mixer might have some sort of preamp built-in. In my case, I have a Mackie Onyx 32-4 mixer, which has all my hardware synths and other line inputs routed into it. It comes with a fairly nice little built in mic pre, which, so far, has worked pretty well. It would be comparable to a mid-range, stand alone preamp, but doesn't have the extra features that might come with a stand alone, especially one more on the high end. But for my purposes it is good enough, because I only use my mic inputs for scratch tracks. I go to a different studio when I want to lay down final audio tracks, and there is a great preamp there.

Without any kind of preamp, its pretty hard to get a good, strong, clean signal on mic input.

Hope that helps.

[Stig Eliassen]

I apologize if I sound like an elementary school student; but If I don't ask, then I won't ever know the answer. My question is: What is a preamp? I've read in these forums, that without a good preamp its hard to get a good representation of vocals. Are these used on just vocals or instruments as well.

Furthermore, I record rock, Hip-Hop, R&B, (almost anything really) music using an Mbox, how would I incorporate this into my set-up?

In conclusion, I want to Thank everyone in these forums for shedding light on me. I have learned so much, in such little time; just from reading through these forums. ;)
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamplifier)

[Wardove04]

Because microphones by themselves don't have any power boost to the input signal (ie, the vocalist), you need some way to get a good, clean signal into your recording device, such as your DAW. While you could go directly into your DAW through the mic input on your MBox, the signal would tend to be weak, and if you try to boost it using the software components inside Pro Tools, it could sound hissy and noisy. Solution? Some kind of hardware preamp. You plug your mic into that and then route the signal from the preamp to the input to Pro Tools. Like everything else in audio recording, preamps come in all sizes and colors, so to speak, meaning some really are better than others. Sometimes, a good mixer might have some sort of preamp built-in. In my case, I have a Mackie Onyx 32-4 mixer, which has all my hardware synths and other line inputs routed into it. It comes with a fairly nice little built in mic pre, which, so far, has worked pretty well. It would be comparable to a mid-range, stand alone preamp, but doesn't have the extra features that might come with a stand alone, especially one more on the high end. But for my purposes it is good enough, because I only use my mic inputs for scratch tracks. I go to a different studio when I want to lay down final audio tracks, and there is a great preamp there.

Without any kind of preamp, its pretty hard to get a good, strong, clean signal on mic input.

Hope that helps.



Thank you for the detailed insight in regards to my question; this has been very helpful. The more I get involved with the recording process, the more I realize I need MORE gear, and my wife won't let me auction off our 3 children; so I guess I need to work harder! Lol.:eek: Your post has lead me to believe that a quality preamp is a necessity to my set-up. Thanks again, and thank you to everyone else that posted as well.:-)

[DonaldM]

Here's a place to start looking for one. (http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/preamps/) Every price range. Something for Prosonus or ART would probably work well for your set up. (at the risk of beginning a preamp war :D)

[Wardove04]

Here's a place to start looking for one. (http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/preamps/) Every price range. Something for Prosonus or ART would probably work well for your set up. (at the risk of beginning a preamp war :D)


Thank you for taking the time and being so helpful. I appreciate your generosity. This will definitely take me in the right direction. Any chance you might recommend me a certain model in the $50 - $200 range that you've used, or believe to be good? I will be recording mostly vocals (Condenser, and Dynamic), Guitar, and Bass Guitar.

Thanks again:D

[DonaldM]

Thank you for taking the time and being so helpful. I appreciate your generosity. This will definitely take me in the right direction. Any chance you might recommend me a certain model in the $50 - $200 range that you've used, or believe to be good? I will be recording mostly vocals (Condenser, and Dynamic), Guitar, and Bass Guitar.

Thanks again:D

Well, since i don't actually have one in my set up, as I mentioned, I'd prefer to defer to my betters here. In that price range, you're probably looking at only 1 input for anything decent (ie a prosonus or ART). You might hunt around a find a good used one somewhere as well. Check E-bay, for example.

[Wardove04]

Well, since i don't actually have one in my set up, as I mentioned, I'd prefer to defer to my betters here. In that price range, you're probably looking at only 1 input for anything decent (ie a prosonus or ART). You might hunt around a find a good used one somewhere as well. Check E-bay, for example.


Thanks a lot DonaldM. I will start my hunting for a good piece of equipment now. I gave you that price range; but as a good rule of thumb, I will more than likely spend more than that (due to the fact that I get pissed :mad: when I buy something then I outgrow it a few months later). I might as well endure the pain of emptying my wallet once instead of twice! Lol. :-)

[solidwalnut]

How much money you want to spend, really, depends on several factors. Such as 1) do you plan on making any money mixing? (2 Would you rather spend for a bit of quality right off the bat? 3) Who are you tying to impress :D

That Sweetwater tutorial on pre's is a good place to start, and can introduce you to that world.

But I heard that you'd almost rather have an empty wallet once than twice. So, it just depends how serious this new recording world is to you. I will tell you that good quality begins around $8-1200. Any units below these prices are ok, but you really can begin to tell the difference when you get to the $1000 range. I'm not saying this to get you to chase after the elusive holy grail of tone or to say you need to spend x amount of money. I'm just saying this for your information.

If you want to spend $500, you won't go wrong. If you spend $1000, you'll be entering a wider world :-) Just two cents.

Steve

[solidwalnut]

Here's a great website that really dives in and shows step-by-step about the recording world.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/

[Wardove04]

Here's a great website that really dives in and shows step-by-step about the recording world.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/

Thanks for the great website! This will definitely keep me busy for awhile!:D

[Bill Denton]

Which MBox are you using? I don't know about the "original" MBox, but all of the rest of them that I've seen had built-in mic preamps. Also, what mic are you trying tlo use.

Which would make this piece of information not quite correct: While you could go directly into your DAW through the mic input on your MBox, the signal would tend to be weak, and if you try to boost it using the software components inside Pro Tools, it could sound hissy and noisy.

As I said, all of the MBoxes I have seen had preamps that would work well for most mics, and even my lowly MBox 2 Mini had 48 volt phantom power which is needed for condenser mics.

There are a few mics whose signal is so low that a higher-gain preamp is required, and if you were to use one, you would connect it to a line input on your MBox, but again, without knowing what mic you are using we can't really give you any advice.

Depending upon your MBox model, there are some switches that need to be properly set. The Mic/Line or Mic/DI switch needs to be set to Mic, the Pad switlch needs to be off, and, if you are using a condenser mic, 48 volt Phantom Power needs to be on.

One other thing, the controls inside of Pro Tools should not be used to set recording levels. The "sliders" on your mixer in Pro Tools should be set to 0, and you would then adjust your external equipment to enable you to achieve the correct recording levels...

[Wardove04]

Which MBox are you using? I don't know about the "original" MBox, but all of the rest of them that I've seen had built-in mic preamps. Also, what mic are you trying tlo use.

Which would make this piece of information not quite correct: While you could go directly into your DAW through the mic input on your MBox, the signal would tend to be weak, and if you try to boost it using the software components inside Pro Tools, it could sound hissy and noisy.

As I said, all of the MBoxes I have seen had preamps that would work well for most mics, and even my lowly MBox 2 Mini had 48 volt phantom power which is needed for condenser mics.

There are a few mics whose signal is so low that a higher-gain preamp is required, and if you were to use one, you would connect it to a line input on your MBox, but again, without knowing what mic you are using we can't really give you any advice.

Depending upon your MBox model, there are some switches that need to be properly set. The Mic/Line or Mic/DI switch needs to be set to Mic, the Pad switlch needs to be off, and, if you are using a condenser mic, 48 volt Phantom Power needs to be on.

One other thing, the controls inside of Pro Tools should not be used to set recording levels. The "sliders" on your mixer in Pro Tools should be set to 0, and you would then adjust your external equipment to enable you to achieve the correct recording levels...


I am using a Mbox 2 mini. Which has all of the same inputs and outputs as your Mbox. I mainly use a MXL 990 condensor microphone. I'm aware of the switches on the Mbox; however I wasn't aware of the Mbox 2 Mini having Mic Preamps built into the interface.

Therefore, how does this affect me?

Can I use an addtional Mic Preamp that is better than the built in; one to overide the Mbox 2 Mini Preamps?

Furthermore, I sometimes have "Pad" the signal with the Mbox 2 Mini switch to decrease the intensity of the signal when there is a "Screaming" vocalist.

I do use the 48 Volt Phantom power switch when using this mic as well.

Overall the sound I get from this microphone is decent by all means, I just feel like it could definetely improve.

I also have a few Sure 57's. When is it optimal to use these dynamic microphones as opposed to a condesor mic?

Any suggestions to improve my recording experience?

Thanks again for the insight, any advice is welcome:-)

[Bill Denton]

Ex-wife got my MBox 2 Mini (but I got the 003) so I had to look some things up...:-)

The MB2M (MBox 2 Mini) has one mic preamp; when you plug your mic into the XLR jack you are using the preamp. If you are not using an XLR/XLR cable that would cause some problems.

You can use an external preamp (and, in truth, it would probably be better than the built-in one). You would plug it into Input 2, preferably with a TRS/TRS cable. I would start with the Input 2 Gain knob at about 12:00, then adjust the preamp gain as required. If for some reason you wanted to plug an external preamp into Input 1, make sure phantom power is off on the MB2M. Use the pad if necessary.

However, since you are just starting out, I would just use the preamp in the MB2M unless you want to use two mics at once. It's not a terrible preamp; it's just not a great one.

One of the biggest influences on your sound is room treatment. Do a little searching on here and Google. Right now, you would probably get better results from spending your money on room treatment than on buying an external preamp.

As far as when to choose a condenser mic over a dynamic such as the SM57, there is far better advice on here than what I could give you. One thing to consider, though, is that a dynamic mic will typically handle higher SPL's (Sound Pressure Level) than many condensers. You would find high SPL's directly in front of a loud amplifier or close to a drum.

Good luck!

[barters81]

need to spend x amount of money. I'm just saying this for your information.

If you want to spend $500, you won't go wrong. If you spend $1000, you'll be entering a wider world :-) Just two cents.

Steve

I agree with this totally. I thought my profire had good preamps, and they do for starting out. But once I forked out some cash....as already mentioned, around the 1K mark I noticed a significant improvement. In saying that however, remember the old chestnut.....a good song recorded averagely will sound a hell of a lot better than a average song recorded brilliantly. I think there is a lot to be made from polishing producing skills as well as recording if you can't afford to mortgage your house for pro gear.

My experience since with preamps since has been....once you get over that 1K threshold, they are all good, you're just looking at different 'colours'(the way the preamp effects how it sounds). Some are more pleasing than others.

P.S - We've all been through the developing stage in learning recording. And to be honest we're all still learning. If anyone says they know everything in this game they are simply kidding themselves.