Recording with Tube Pre-amp

[shultzee13]

I am sure this has been covered before but I just bought a Presonus Blue Tube pre-amp. I wanted something better than the Ultragain Pro from Behringer. I bought this to run my entire mix through to "warm-up" my finished projects on Pro Tools.

Can anyone chime in here that is using one of these to do the same thing? I want to know what others think of the sound quality and if it really warms things up as they all say.

I know the DBX 386 is better but it's almost twice the price. I've heard some really great things about Presonus gear.

Thanks in advance.:-)

[tha]-[acksaw]

I have a PreSonus Blue Tube as well. I have been using the thing for about two years. Let me first say that I have been able to get some great recordings with it.

BUT... I recently got an M-Audio Octane 8. I did not realize how much the Blue Tube colored the sound until I tried out the Octane. The Blue Tube adds a lot of high end color to the sound. Its hardly a flat sounding PreAmp. I would not say its a bad Pre for $200. I just hate having to EQ something like a vocal, which should not need that much work, just cause the PreAmp adds too much to the high end. I have almost stoped using it.

As far as the Tube Stage. Don't be confised about this Pre. Its not a Tube Pre. Its a Solid State with a built in tube stage. By no means does the tube sound warm. I have tried adding the tube stage on vocal, acoustic guitar, miced guitar cab, horns, miced Leslie speaker, DI guitar and drums. The only way I even liked it was if I added the tube when gecording DI electric guitar. After recording with the tube I found that if I re-amped the DI guitar recording through a guitar cab and then mic the cab, the tube distortion from the Blue Tube added a nice tone to the guitar cab. But the DI track with the tube by itself sound no so great.

I'm still unsure what PreSouns's practical application was for the Tube Stage. I have tried it on about everything that I do normaly and only find it nice on DI electric guitar when re-amping. I know I kinda bashed the Blue Tube in this review. When I first started recording, before I bought the Blue Tube, I was using a Berringer mixer. The BT is a total improvement from this. If you wanna spend a little more money and not have a tube stage, I have been really happy with my M-Audio Octane 8. Its flat and clean and sounds great for everything I do, plus its 8 channels. I also just bought a PreSonus ADL 600 which is designed by Anthony DeMaria and manafactured by Pre Sonus. Its a true tube amp in DeMaria fasion. Sounds amazing and it has great tube warmth. I mean GREAT!!!! Only problem is they are over $2000. Worth every penny, but a good deal more money then the Blue Tube.

Please don't not buy the Blue Tube because of this review. Like I said, its not that bad. I was just in the same shape as you, wanting something to add a little warmth to my dry digital recordings. I bought the Blue Tube hoping this would help me out. It did not! I guess that the main answer to your question. Did I get some great recordings out of it with a little work. Yes I did!

Nick

[shultzee13]

So then what is a good, yet affordable tube pre-amp to add warmth to my digital recordings?

I guess something in the $300 to $400 range. :confused:

[tha]-[acksaw]

This is a question I have been asking myself for years. It kinda depends on where you wanna add the tube warmth. If you wanna get an ok tube sound during recording... I have used Behringer Tube EQ and an APEX Tube mic. These were the best results I have ever had on the recording end of things. I will admit, neither was near the result I wanted. But they were the only two pieces of gear I have used that didn't piss me off with extra bs added to the signal. The APEX mic actualy sounds warm. A little. LOL

If your talking about sending a mix out of your computer and running it into a Tube Pre to add warmth for mastering and such. All I can say is your not gonna get what you want until you spend over $2,000. Its just not happening. Unless your willing do deal with a less then accpetable outcome.

I'm not a gear head. Im not the owner of a big studio. I have spend a lot of time in my home studio trying to squeak good recordings out of consumer gear. Its pretty hard to do man.

Last month I got the PreSouns ADL 600 for $2,300; an Apogee Rosetta 800 for $2,400 and a Neuman U87ai for $2,800. I hooked everything up, did some recordings. All i gotta say is amazing. Its like night and day of all the $200-900 gear I was using. NIGHT AND DAY. You want tube warmth, like you hear in great recordings, the ADL will more then do it for you. The Avalon stuff is great too. I have used their tube Pre in my buddies studio. Sounds great. Might like the ADL a little better, but i also might be bias. LOL

If you want my opinion, coming from someone who has used low end gear to try and achieve high end results. Save your money and do it right.

[DrFord]

For a minute can I just touch on what tubes do. I am not a total expert, and I am sure others may know more... but engineers use tubes because they distort harmonics when pushed. I like to think of them as a glass of water. When you fill it too full, it overflows. However the overflow brings in the characteristic of the tube as each tube distorts differently and different harmonic octaves.

All of that mumbo jumbo is basically to say that tubes don't neccesarily make things warmer. Harmonic distortion as I mentioned happens in octaves above the fundamental frequency. So if you are pushing weak recordings that are not warm because your mic isn't the best, your pre isn't the best, and your cables aren't the best, well the tube is just going to harmonically distort and bring out the bad you don't want. They don't distort downwards to give more warmth only up.

If you really want to bring some warmth in, I would reccomend getting an Analog tape plug in like the McDsp stuff, or the Phoenix plug, or Digi's analog tape saturation plug.

Put it on your masterbus and now hear the difference in tape saturation, plus some nice sounding tape compression.

I personally use Analog Chanel from McDSP on all my master busses. I love it. It makes a huge difference, but not until you bypass it when you are about to bounce do you really notice the difference. The Project Studio bundle is a good way to get a set of plugs which will really help you I think. And the price may be up your alley.

D

[davegibbon]

Have you tried something ITB like Vintage Warmer 2 by PSP Audioware? Try it on a master bus and let the joy begin.

[daeron80]

[snip] if you are pushing weak recordings that are not warm because your mic isn't the best, your pre isn't the best, and your cables aren't the best, well the tube is just going to harmonically distort and bring out the bad you don't want.

Very well said. In my experience, a major portion of the coldness of digital recordings in home studios is caused by unstable/dirty power. Having your circuit rewired for balanced power is kind of expensive, but it makes a big difference. Second best choice (and a lot cheaper), a really good power conditioner big enough to deliver plenty more power than you need can warm up the sound quite a bit. It can't entirely overcome the problems introduced by a $200 pre, and it doesn't solve the problem of cheap converters, but it can be a noticeable step up toward pro sound.

[shultzee13]

Is warmer2 compatible with Pro Tools M-powered 7.4?

[shultzee13]

Have you tried something ITB like Vintage Warmer 2 by PSP Audioware? Try it on a master bus and let the joy begin.

Is warmer2 compatible with PT M-powered 7.4?

[Delta Music Belgium]

If you really want to bring some warmth in, I would reccomend getting an Analog tape plug in like the McDsp stuff, or the Phoenix plug, or Digi's analog tape saturation plug.

Put it on your masterbus and now hear the difference in tape saturation, plus some nice sounding tape compression.

I personally use Analog Chanel from McDSP on all my master busses. I love it. It makes a huge difference, but not until you bypass it when you are about to bounce do you really notice the difference.


I almost always use DUY Dad Valve and like it very much. It is on most of my audio tracks and on the Master bus, very nice!

More info here (http://www.duystore.com/com/valve.html)

[tonepad]

Although I don't use it for the mix bus I have a Summit Audio 2ba-221 mic pre and the TLA-50 Leveling amp. These are both outstanding and you can scrounge 'em up on ebay in the $400 per range if you're patient. I don't use the tube blend on the mic pre too much since I'm doing a guitar project with a Marshall 1974x and a Blackheart combo...love those el84 boxes...so that's as much tube character as I want. I'm just trying to capture the sound of the 74x with various mic and pre combos to achieve different characters. However I do run the 2ba into the TLA-50 which is all tube all the time and that is a fantastic combo...clean but with a really good "color" it reminds me a what audiophiles love about hi end tube rigs. I do understand that this may be above your price range but I think it's one of those keeper investments that would do anyone well. These are the "low" end of the Summit line but in this case the trickle down factor is very high. I have many other pre, but the only other tube box is the Studio Projects vtb1 which uses a tube for color but IMO doesn't doe what a real tube should do. It is however a very nice sounding solid state pre and for color I run it through an old Orban 442 comp. Now that is an older SS design and you can find those in the stereo version for dirt cheap on ebay as well. The Orban is fairly neutral but can be tweaked to add some color as well. It is def a vintage sounding piece and as a 1970 era design it is the real thing.
As for ITB plugs I like to use the Vintage Warmer2 across the mix buss as well but I'd suggest a listen to Massey L2007 mastering limiter...fantastic and affordable and you can try for free. Hope these comments are helpful.

[tonepad]

Model number correction: I use the Orban 422A mono comp and the stereo model is the 424A...still not tube but vintage solid state.

[DrFord]

Just as a side note, Solid state amps can warm up your mix, though they have different character than tubes. I think people have a misconception about tubes. In fact tonight I was working on some Acoustic guitar, and I have my Rode classic 2 going into my avalon. well I don't know whats going on with my avalon (maybe it just doesn't like my rode) but it wasn't sounding great. Low gain, high noise, weird hum... maybe it habn't warmed up fully.. I dunno... but I ran the Rode into my Focusrite ISA 828 and BAM... huge acoustic sound. Body and clarity. Now this is a taste issue, but a case of a solid state amp sounding better in this occasion than my tube.