Venue/live recording/Broadcasting

[Chadrachman]

I don't want to be a bother and I am sure this will all be clear if we purchase the venue and go through training but this is some important information I would like to research before buying our new system. I am involved in a church that is going to be getting a new building and I am really trying to push the venue system. Since pro tools gets signal from the stage rack before it goes to the board is it possible to simultaneously send that signal to a broadcast room with an icon or other production system? I want to be able to do live recordings as well as have signal sent to the broadcast system without being effected by the mix that is being created for the live room. Any information and experiences would be helpful for me to sell the venue system as the best possible choice for us.

Thanks

Chad

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi Chad,

If I'm understanding the question, the desire is to have two Pro Tools HD recording setups going at the same time - one at FOH and another in the broadcast room. Correct?

If so, this isn't possible because the DigiLink connection that connects to Pro Tools HD can't be split.

What is possible, however, is to do a live mix within VENUE while sending the unaffected signals via DigiLink to a single Pro Tools HD system in the broadcast room. Then, to also record at FOH, you could use the VENUE system's AES outputs and send a few sub-mixed stems into an external Pro Tools LE (or other) peripheral.

Let me know if I've misunderstood anything...

Sheldon

[Chadrachman]

I guess my question is how many places can I send raw signal to. I know we are going to send signal to a pro tools system. But I wanted to send raw signal to a broadcast room also (where there would be another console for live broadcast/internet streaming). I could always use direct outs but I was really hoping there was a way to send it digitally similar to pro tools and also stay away from sending sub groups to the broadcast feed. Example is that I like to mix heavy kick drum to fill the room but that may not sound to good broadcasted. I think my setup is similar to sending raw signal to a monitor mixer. Something that might be helpful would be to find information on different signal routing/sending options for the venue.

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi Chad,

It really depends on which format is required at each destination. The digital snake signal used to carry the stage signals to FOH Rack or Mix Rack is not the same as the signal carried by the DigiLink connection to Pro Tools HD (even though they may carry the same audio information, each is optimised for a paritcular purpose and transmission distance).

As mentioned, it's possible to send the unaffected signals to a single Pro Tools HD system, while not affecting signals sent to the house mix. It's only the case where two HD rigs are connected at the same time that poses a challenge. Is this a realistic scenario, or would it more likely be the case that a single Pro Tools rig would only ever be in use - sometimes remotely in a broadcast situation and other times at FOH. If it's the latter, then the way others have addressed the issue is to put the Pro Tools rig in a road case, which moves between the live room and broadcast room as needed.

Sheldon

[gilparente]

Hey Chad,

I'm about to start installation on a church down here with a similar setup as you described.

The approach that we took was to have the HD rig @ FOH position with an extra interface (192 or 96 IO) and then have an analog snake pulled to the broadcast position. Also pulled to the broadcast position would be Cat5E cable for the control surface.
Broadcast mixing will be done with a control surface, either C24 or D-Command, whatever budget permits.

The reason for this setup is that the church wants to be able to replay services during the week for Volunteer training. They have a pretty decent training program for the audio kids and they want to give them as much of the real thing as they can.

The idea is that eventually, they would purchase a second console (Profile, most likely) and mix broadcast with that, and use the control surface as more of a Post tool.

Hope it helps.

take care
Gil

[Chadrachman]

Gill, The more I look into things I think I am going to have to run the analog snake. I think we might look at running a split snake before the stage rack so that when something is plugged in to the stage pocket then signal is sent to the stage rack and our broadcast room. I would be nice if there was a way to add a card to FOH to send a digital snake to a broadcast room while another card is sending signal to the HD rig. The only way I can see doing that right now is to give up the redundant digital snake option and send one to FOH and send another one to like a profile board.

What would be nice is if you could stack more digital snake cards at the stage rack and hook in multiple digital snakes to say two or three boards. Maybe that is already possible...anyone know? I don't know much about the possibilities since I have not gotten my hands on a venue system yet.

[gilparente]

Hey Chad,

If your idea or budget lets you use two consoles, I'd say go for that, with an analog split between.
It will also give you the chance leave both stage racks on stage somewhere, and let you use the Broadcast StageRack for your FOH console, in case you have a big act come through.
Some people have used the redundant snake out as a split and supposedly works. However this is not supported by Digi. You have to understand that the Broadcast Console would not have gain control over the mic pres.

Theoretically speaking you should be able to plug the Snake Out2 port of your Stage Rack to two more consoles using a Coaxial "T", I've never tried it, but you start getting into risky business at that point.

I do believe that having two independent systems (FOH and Broadcast) with an analog split is the way to go, but the configuration that I described at my previous post, works pretty well, if your broadcast guy doesn't mind mixing in PT.

Take care

Gil

[DNewburn]

Hey Chad,
Have you watched the Webinar Rob has on integrating the Venue and Icon? This may be what you're looking to do. Sheldon pointed to this, and it sounds like this is what Gil is headed towards, but what you end up doing is having your unaffected tracks recorded directly to ProTools and those tracks are manipulated by the Icon in your broadcasting room.

Here's the link to the Webinar. I think this should help a lot:
http://avid.na3.acrobat.com/p79001085/

[Eulises Canada]

This is how we do it... From the FOH location to the broadcast/post production room using the Digi link (the only limitation is that the Digi cable can only run 250'). We have in the broadcast/post room a C24 and a 192 I/O, we mix the inputs from Venue in Protools while is recording, the outputs from the 192 I/O to the Internet, Clearcom and TV broadcast. Off course everything is recorded with T/C using Sync. It works perfect! For training and Virtual sound check, I have a wireless router on the Mac in the broadcast room and I control playback on Protools with Mac share. Love it! Hope this helps.

[20inchtrout]

Hello all, I am new to this forum and need some help. I will be purchasing the Venue PROFILE system for our church within the next couple of days; I am trying to get all my cabling prepped for install. I need specific instructions on how to wire the coaxial snake ends. I have the info as to what kind of co-ax I need, etc., but I need to know how to build the split ends that plug into the snake card. Any input would be helpful. Thanks.

[Kenmillerjr]

It is a standard BNC crimp...ever crimped a coax cable before? The process is generally the same.