Venue + ProTools + External Word Clock Problems

[Travis Brockway]

Hey All,

I have been using a Venue with 2 192s and an HD3 clocked by an Apogee Big Ben (which also generates house video sync) for a couple of years. Recently I changed ProTools to internal clock, and now am unable to change back to ANY other clock source if the Venue digilink cables are plugged in. This includes adat, tdif, word clock - anything. I can only select internal. Perhaps it has been this way since we started using the system, and since I always use the Big Ben, it's never come up. One of our engineers called PT tech support (at a cost of $75.00), and the tech support guy said that using the Venue with 192s was an unsupported setup, and could not provide a solution!! If I unplug the digilink cables coming from the Venue, I can select other digital inputs or word clock as a clock source. I am also recently getting a steady full scale pop on every channel which looks like a clock problem. I haven't had time to troubleshoot that yet, but I'll be working on it tomorrow. Are the other guys out there with similar setups using PT as the clock for all your digital devices? When we've done this and PT crashes, it causes a loud pop as the Venue switches back to it's own internal clock. Any thoughts?

Related system components:
Venue w/ 2 stage racks and HDX1
Quad 2.5 G5 w/ 4gb ram
2 - 192i/o
Apogee Big Ben
PT 7.3.1

Thanks,
Travis

[BradLyons]

Travis,

Hey there, how's it going? Long time no talk! Here's the deal.....neither ProTools NOR Venue should be the master clock when you're connecting to an HD system for live worship, IMHO. Digi assumes you will always run both together which, obviously, isn't the case. IMHO, I would not allow the BigBen to be the master house video sync---instead, use video sync from your video room from an actual master sync box. I have the SyncIO (key here) running 24/7 locked to house sync where ProTools is seeing running timecode at all times. The SyncI/O is not the master clock, but it is sending (passing) word clock through to my BigBen---from there, I'm clocking the VENUE console, a 96IO in the studio and a few other devices. EVERYTHING, including Venue, is a clock slave. If you're not able to select anything other than internal--you probably need to do a complete re-install. This happened to me and it was frustrating, that was the only thing that worked. That's also the only option if you need to install MachineControl, grrrrr!

Please elaborate more on your setup and how it's wired. Which cards are your I/O and Venue on?

[Travis Brockway]

Hey Brad, how's it going?


neither ProTools NOR Venue should be the master clock when you're connecting to an HD system for live worship



I agree, which is why I'm trying to get PT to see an external clock again...


"IMHO, I would not allow the BigBen to be the master house video sync---instead, use video sync from your video room from an actual master sync box."



I am using the X-Video card in the Ben to generate sync for the Ross Synergy 2 switcher, decks, converters, etc.

I may not have been clear enough in my last post. I am trying to get everything to be a slave to the Big Ben - the Venue, the HD3 system, and all other digital audio devices/daws in the system - which is how it was when I first installed it. It sounds like a reinstall is in order. It's odd that it works fine when the venue's not plugged in.

It's a pretty standard rig. Venue w/ 2 stage racks, 56 pres, 24 outs, FOH rack completely full except that it's just an Hdx1. 5 engine cards, IoX card, blah blah blah.
PT is an HD3 with a Control 24 and 2 192s. Sometimes clocked with a Big Ben.

Core card - 2 192s
Middle Accel card - Venue 1-32
Last Accel card - Venue 32-48/Assignables

Home runs of RG6 from Big Ben to Venue, 192.1, and other devices (AD/DA converters, decks, DAW w/Hammerfall Cards, etc.)
I've tried various combinations of syncing the 2nd 192 - loop sync only, daisy chaining WC only out of 192.1 to 192.2, and all of the above.

I mostly posted because I was disappointed that we dropped 75 bucks on a Digidesign support guy that said that he'd never heard of anyone using a Venue with 192I/Os. Shoulda called Sheldon. I'm sure he's not busy.

Later,
Travis

[BradLyons]

I think you need to re-install, but tomorrow while I'm in preparing for our Sunday service---I'll talk to our tech director to confirm that's what we did.

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi Travis,

First off, let me apologize for the misinformation that was passed to you. A combination of VENUE and 192s most certainly is supported. Perhaps there was some confusion on the support person's part because the configuration described (192s connected to first port, VENUE to subsequent ports) doesn't exactly match the diagram in the HDx manual, which shows the 192 peripheral as the last device in the chain instead of the first.


it's odd that it works fine when the venue's not plugged in.


When VENUE is detected it always becomes the Pro Tools master and the other clock options for the 192s are automatically disabled. So long as the FOH Rack and 192s share a common clock (either all slaved to a master Word Clock, or by using the Word Clock out of FOH Rack connected to the Loop Sync In of the 192s) all should be good and there will be no clicks or pops.

When the VENUE system is powered down the clock options for the 192s will be re-enabled and you can use the 192s as normal without needing to power the console on. This is one advantage to having the 192s on the first PT cards instead of the last, as shown in the HDx manual.

If the clock options are behaving as described above a full re-install is likely not necessary.

Call anytime...

Sheldon

[BradLyons]

I might be stating the obvious here but just in case....make sure you boot up Venue first, THEN ProTools. But anyway, I did have this issue where PT would just NOT allow me to select anything but internal. After a re-install, all was fine.