Best plug in to mix/master vocals only??

[Neruk]

What would you guys recommend as the best Plug In for mastering vocals only.

For like rap/r&b since the beats used are already mastered and mixed.

Thanks!

[Sir Bergersworth]

give a little more info.
why would the beats be mastered before you tracked the vocals?
thats a bit backwards.

[Neruk]

The beats are already mastered because most rap/r&b artists purchase their beats from producers. And the producers have already done all the work to them.

Maybe not "mastered" totally, but they usually already sound perfect.

I just want to know what plug ins will give the vocals that "polished full" sound. I get excellent quality with just the LE plug ins, but i feel i could make them sound a lot fuller.

[Naagzh]

The beats are already mastered because most rap/r&b artists purchase their beats from producers. And the producers have already done all the work to them.

Maybe not "mastered" totally, but they usually already sound perfect.

I just want to know what plug ins will give the vocals that "polished full" sound. I get excellent quality with just the LE plug ins, but i feel i could make them sound a lot fuller.



Just for the record, "mastering" refers to the tweaking of the final, 2-channel mix (complete with all vocals and other instrumentation), usu. with mastering comps, EQs, tape machines, limiters, and so on. Overall volume of the mix is also raised at this stage.

Here's a trick to try (basically a poor mans Eventide). Make 2 copies of the vocal, and roll them off gently at 16kHz. Pitch-shift one of the copies up 4 cents, and delay it by 16 msec or so. Pitch-shift the other down 9 cents, and delay by 16 msec. Pan them softly to either side and sneak them in under the original vocal. (Someone chime in if they can remember the exact numbers used in the Eventide setting.)

[jtoole]

Neruk -

In my experience (I do commercial rap/r&b recording among other things) you can get a good solid polished sound with the following:

1. Record two passes for each vocal section. Two passes per verse, chorus part, etc. Keep these passes as close together as possible, even adjusting individual syllables to match if required (or use a plugin like VocAlign). Record these clean or with a touch of outboard compression if you've got something worth using (I use Avalon comp or La-610 typically for rap projects). I don't typically EQ at this stage.

2. Pan these mirrored vocal takes left/right to taste. This will depend on the stereo width of the beat, the type of part, etc... I usually don't go past about 75% each side, and as narrow as 15-25% if the beat is mixed close to mono.

3. Setup an stereo AUX buss and put the outputs of the vocal tracks to the AUX. Sometimes I use seperate AUXes for verse vs. chorus, and often seperate AUXes per vocalist... For AUX buss effects I typically use a small amount of compression (I like Waves RComp for this) and a slight amount of reverb (I often use RVerb or TC MegaVerb for this). I typically have one or more reverb AUXes setup for the mix of the beat, so I'll just send from the "VocAUX" to the "VerbAUX" for the verb. If required for the vocalist, also add an EQ (I would probably use REQ - as you see I like the Waves stuff)...

Thats pretty close to my typical process - of course it varies between project, vocalist, etc, but that tends to be a reasonable starting point for the average project.

I use a decent amount of compression before going digital because I like the tone of nice outboard gear, but you should be able to get a good sound with or without that... you'll just need to use a bit more compression on the AUX.

If you can afford it, I've really loved the LA-610 for the price, and my clients seem to find that two panned tracks of LA-610 compression give them that "big studio tone" they were looking to find... At the other end of the price spectrum, Waves Musicians II bundle gives you RComp, REQ and some other plugins for ~$150 street price and I think these plugins give very usable results. That bundle and a decent reverb and you'd be set IMHO.

oh, and get a decent mic

Hope that helps! Good luck.

jt

[Sir Bergersworth]

I work in this situation quite a bit and I always ask for the original tracks so that I can mix the song completely, at least ask for sub mixed tracks. that the best way to go. I also agree with the previous posts.
ask for separate tracks.

[Neruk]

The beats are already mastered because most rap/r&b artists purchase their beats from producers. And the producers have already done all the work to them.

Maybe not "mastered" totally, but they usually already sound perfect.

I just want to know what plug ins will give the vocals that "polished full" sound. I get excellent quality with just the LE plug ins, but i feel i could make them sound a lot fuller.



Just for the record, "mastering" refers to the tweaking of the final, 2-channel mix (complete with all vocals and other instrumentation), usu. with mastering comps, EQs, tape machines, limiters, and so on. Overall volume of the mix is also raised at this stage.

Here's a trick to try (basically a poor mans Eventide). Make 2 copies of the vocal, and roll them off gently at 16kHz. Pitch-shift one of the copies up 4 cents, and delay it by 16 msec or so. Pitch-shift the other down 9 cents, and delay by 16 msec. Pan them softly to either side and sneak them in under the original vocal. (Someone chime in if they can remember the exact numbers used in the Eventide setting.)



What does it mean to pitch shift it down by 4 or 9 "cents"?

[Neruk]

BTW, i generally do 1 layer for the verses, and do 2 sets of dubs panned to 40 L and R. And for the chorus i layer like 4 times. But the verses still dont have the FULL sound when there isnt a dub. So im hoping one of your guys suggestions will be able to fix my problem. Thanks for the help so far.

[spkguitar]

Definition of "cent" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_%28music%29) as it applies to pitch and musical intervals.

[jpf99]

wow your tip worked terrific!typed in 16msec in audio suite delay and brought 16khz in the peak setting eq down 2-4 db... after pitch shifting, now for bgs! any "tricks' for bass and acoustic parts as far as "fattening"? thankx again-JP

[Naagzh]

wow your tip worked terrific!typed in 16msec in audio suite delay and brought 16khz in the peak setting eq down 2-4 db... after pitch shifting, now for bgs! any "tricks' for bass and acoustic parts as far as "fattening"? thankx again-JP



Glad to help. There's a stock digi delay plug-in called "Short Delay II", so there's no need to nudge the tracks or use audiosuite (the stock short delays go very easy on the CPU). Just be sure to set the delay plug to 100%.

Doubling acoustic parts can fatten them up a bit (not sure pitch-shifting would sound good, though), but be forewarned: not everything in a mix needs to be "huge", but it should probably have its own place.

As for bass, I find that a great DI box/ preamp really helps. That LA-610 that jToole recommended has a fantastic instrument input on it (it lets you decide how hard to hit a couple of very nice tubes!). But I usually compress and EQ. You can make a copy, mess around with Sansamp or AmpFarm to get more grit and fret noise, and then sneak that in.

[Neruk]

The beats are already mastered because most rap/r&b artists purchase their beats from producers. And the producers have already done all the work to them.

Maybe not "mastered" totally, but they usually already sound perfect.

I just want to know what plug ins will give the vocals that "polished full" sound. I get excellent quality with just the LE plug ins, but i feel i could make them sound a lot fuller.



Just for the record, "mastering" refers to the tweaking of the final, 2-channel mix (complete with all vocals and other instrumentation), usu. with mastering comps, EQs, tape machines, limiters, and so on. Overall volume of the mix is also raised at this stage.

Here's a trick to try (basically a poor mans Eventide). Make 2 copies of the vocal, and roll them off gently at 16kHz. Pitch-shift one of the copies up 4 cents, and delay it by 16 msec or so. Pitch-shift the other down 9 cents, and delay by 16 msec. Pan them softly to either side and sneak them in under the original vocal. (Someone chime in if they can remember the exact numbers used in the Eventide setting.)



Im about to go home this weekend to the studio to finally be able to try this stuff out, but just to be clear, what exactly does it mean to " roll the vocal off gently at 16kHz? How would i go about doing that?

[jpf99]

what is your opinion of the Rode NTK as a vocal/ acoustic mic?i've tracked w/ my friends Neuman U47(?) and it can't be beat for warmth...thnx -JP

[Naagzh]

The beats are already mastered because most rap/r&b artists purchase their beats from producers. And the producers have already done all the work to them.

Maybe not "mastered" totally, but they usually already sound perfect.

I just want to know what plug ins will give the vocals that "polished full" sound. I get excellent quality with just the LE plug ins, but i feel i could make them sound a lot fuller.



Just for the record, "mastering" refers to the tweaking of the final, 2-channel mix (complete with all vocals and other instrumentation), usu. with mastering comps, EQs, tape machines, limiters, and so on. Overall volume of the mix is also raised at this stage.

Here's a trick to try (basically a poor mans Eventide). Make 2 copies of the vocal, and roll them off gently at 16kHz. Pitch-shift one of the copies up 4 cents, and delay it by 16 msec or so. Pitch-shift the other down 9 cents, and delay by 16 msec. Pan them softly to either side and sneak them in under the original vocal. (Someone chime in if they can remember the exact numbers used in the Eventide setting.)



Im about to go home this weekend to the studio to finally be able to try this stuff out, but just to be clear, what exactly does it mean to " roll the vocal off gently at 16kHz? How would i go about doing that?



"Roll off" means to decrease using EQ. Set the freq to 16kHz, and attenuate using a low-pass or shelving section of the EQ.